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Non-european countries in UEFA
Author: Rox
Date: 09-09-2004, 15:49
I'd like to know why some asian countries like Kazakhstan,Azerbaijan,Armenia or Israel are members of UEFA (I presume because their clubs play UEFA cups).What's the reason,money?Who wants to travel to countries so far east,mainly to Kazakhstan?I don't know...

Re: Non-european countries in UEFA
Author: ATHAKE
Date: 09-09-2004, 16:01
I'd like to know why some asian countries like or are members of UEFA (I presume because their clubs play UEFA cups).What's the reason,money?Who wants to travel to countries so far east,mainly to Kazakhstan?I don't know...

I not know why Kazakhstan,Azerbaijan,Armenia play UEFA
matches and Europe Groups of FÝFA world cup.

But Israel cant play with their region countries because they all dont want to play with israel...
Their basketball teams can also play ULEB matches with same reason

Re: Non-european countries in UEFA
Author: Forza-AZ
Date: 09-09-2004, 16:23
Armenia and Azerbaijan are not Asian countries. They are 100% in Europe. The border is to the south of the former Sovjetunion and through the Caspian Sea.

Kazakhstan is for a (small) part inside Europe. The border is on the Ural-river and a part of Kazakhstan is West of that river and so in Europe.

Israel is the only UEFA-member that isn't in Europe at all. But because they can't play in Asia (or Africa) because the moslim countries keep them out. So that's why they joined UEFA.
Before they were in UEFA they played WC-qualifying matches with the OFC (Oceania) countries sometimes or play-off's versus other countries.

Re: Non-european countries in UEFA
Author: anita
Date: 09-09-2004, 16:35
You can hardly claim that Cyprus is part of Europe geographically either, unless you take a European colonialistic view like the old Romans, that called the Mediterranean "Mare Nostrum", "Our Sea".

Re: Non-european countries in UEFA
Author: Forza-AZ
Date: 09-09-2004, 18:03
Cyprus is indeed a strange case. Don't know if they are officially in Europe or Asia.

But they probably are in UEFA, because they were a British colony before.

Re: Non-european countries in UEFA
Author: porto-1978
Date: 09-09-2004, 18:21
Armenia and Azerbajan are located north to caspian mountains that divide Europe and Asia between Black and Caspian seas. So they are in Europe.
Kazakhstan and Turkey are mainly in Asia, but both have a small part in Europe. So these countries may choose if they play in Europe or Asia.
The Israel question is understandable, even if i would prefer semitic cultures (jews and arabs - major component of muslim people - are from the same ethnic group: semits) to get along with each other in peace. But geographicly Israel is the only country UEFA that is not located in Europe.
Then we got the islands. No island can be considered part of a continent. Cyprus is near to Anatolia that is Asia but also the major part of Turkey, that plays in UEFA, so neither the turkish Cyprus have a reason to play in Asia. The greek part of Cyprus (that is the one that compete in UEFA) is culturaly linked with Greece, that is completly based in Europe, so thereīs no reason for Cyprus to not play in Europe. Then we got Malta that may considered between Europe and Africa, but more similar and near to Europe in every senses. Finally thereīs England, Wales, Scotland and both Irelandīs, Faroe Islands and Iceland. All these countries are islands or part of them between Europe and America. But at least geographicly they areall much more near to Europe. Neither Iceland, that is quite distant from european continent and not so far away from north american continent, have reasons to not play in Europe. Even Greenland (if one day that is an hypothesis) will fit very well in UEFA.

Re: Non-european countries in UEFA
Author: porto-1978
Date: 09-09-2004, 19:32
Well i think Cyprus is in UEFA more because itīs a country made mainly of greek and turkish emigration and one of the parts (the greek one) made an agreement with UEFA). The turkish part of Cyprus have their own tournments that (such as Kosovo, Gibraltar, Channel Islands, Isle of Man...) donīt take part in UEFA.

Re: Non-european countries in UEFA
Author: Omero
Date: 09-09-2004, 20:27
FOGIVE ME BUT WHAT KIND OF CRAP IS THAT?!

FIRST THING...ISRAELI BASKETBALL HAS ALLWAYS BEEN IN EUROPE! ALLWAYS...

FOR THE FOOTBALL, ANOTHER STUPID THING TO SAY...ISRAEL PLAYED IN ASIA, AND WERE THE CHAMPIONS...BUT THE SITUATION (AND THAT'S NOT THE MAIN REASON!) LED US TO UEFA...THE MAIN REASON WAS THAT WE JUST WANTED TO PLAY WITH THE BEST SO WE CAN BE LIKE THE BEST...NOT ANYTHING LIKE YOU SAID...WVEN IF IN 20 YEARS WILL BE PEACE HERE WE WILL KEEP PLAYING AT UEFA...

Re: Non-european countries in UEFA
Author: sumil
Date: 09-09-2004, 20:52
I was taught that border between Europe and Asia are north of Caucas. So Armenia is in Asia. CIA thinks the same

Re: Non-european countries in UEFA
Author: cattle_ripper
Date: 09-09-2004, 22:07
Well the border is Ural mountains, Caucasus mountains and Caspian sea. The two mountains were formed due to tectonic processes which ocurred as a result of movement of the continents one towards another.

Armenia and Azerbajan have always been recognized as part of Europe. So your teachers are wrong and CIA must update its records. MAP

Re: Non-european countries in UEFA
Author: sumil
Date: 09-09-2004, 22:52
Border is on Kuma-Manych depression. If you want map:http://www.britannica.com/ebc/art?id=65171&type=A. Ok, it's seem that there are two opinions about the border.So maybe one question what is the highest mountain in Europe? Mont Blanc or Elbrus?

Re: Non-european countries in UEFA
Author: Lyonnais
Date: 10-09-2004, 01:00
Let's be unpolitically correct.

First, I think that there are far too may federations in the UEFA. Andorra, San Marino, Faroe Islands have no chance to bring anything to football and they just generate too many totally uninteresting games and then give even more arguments to the G-14 to fight international competitions. When you see that Saha got a serious injury because of the poor quality of the pitch in Faroe, I guess that Ferguson and the G-14 members hate that.

Thus, and this is my second point, if we have to remove some small federations, although Europeans, there is no reason to accept other federations. If Israel is not able with their neighbours, why not playing with the US in the CONCACAF area ? That would make sense both from a soccer perspective (to provide more competition in the CONCACAF) and from a geopolitical perspective.

Re: Non-european countries in UEFA
Author: mark
Date: 10-09-2004, 01:54
I like it when the double faced french attitude toward israel and other matters pops up.

"If Israel is not able with their neighbours, why not playing with the US in the CONCACAF area ? That would make sense both from a soccer perspective (to provide more competition in the CONCACAF) and from a geopolitical perspective."

This is like france and europe don't have cultural and geopolitical interests in israel.
in (IIRC) 92 the UEFA officials were simply drunk when they accepted Israel and it wasn't because the EU ministers asked them to in order to get a foot hold in the mid-east peace process.

I would be the first one (and there are many israelies feeling like me) to ask to get out of UEFA only to give Europeans one less excuse to humiliate Israel.

But then the french don't succeed to win 6-0 against israel so maybe it is time to have some less competition. I'm sure that if israel was ranked 48 in UEFA no one would have cared.

I don't care what the BBC says about the US, but in no time when I was staying in the US I felt like the americans display the same amount of snobism and elitism like europreans do. So yes I want to move to CONCACAF to.

Re: Non-european countries in UEFA
Author: nesh
Date: 10-09-2004, 07:17
Some history b4
ISRAEL was in europe and uefa in 50's when ISRAEL became state after GREATE BRITAIN leave here
UEFA send us to find new home on 70's and israel wonderer for years played in oceania (or with south america) winter was summer and we play in the middle of the night(here in israel) each game there

basictally i think UEFA wants us becuse "BIG" is beuty and the "label" uefa become stronger .... stronger it mean more money for tv and more power in FIFA

most of the israeli speak english (better from me) and some of them other european languge
in my house my pareants speak polish,some garmany,rusian,spanish,french,and italian..... (what can more european from that ....


more of that we trade a lot with europe and about 60% from our exportimport is from europe
ISRAEL ALWAYS have spacial realtinship with europe and we almost member in european market israel participate in many european projects for europe (not for israel) part of then for science ,space,develope eastern europe all the project are open only for EURO MARKET members and ISRAEL .....

ISRAEL have a LOT of problems right but we still mantality more closer to europe from our "niaghbours"
that dont eccept us and foriner to them culture (the arabs state)

we wre about 30 min. flight from turkish and 5 hours flight from any far points in europe (sometime to reach from london to a small points in europe will take more ....)

in another topic i remind that in basketball it works years (we was 2nd place in europe (teice)and MACCABI TEL AVIV IS the CHAMPION OF EUROPE right now)

ok our ability in football is not bad at all
now our raiting in europe is 13 place (UEFA)
we was 25 place in FIFA (2000-2001)WORLD RAITING ...
(now 70 )
ISRAEL proved her ability to join europe in many ways included football now is only question of goodwill thats all

about cyrpus
cyrpus divided two share one are european (greek side) the other not(turkish) and i mean belong to european market but the island itself is a part of europe politically still not

Re: Non-european countries in UEFA
Author: nesh
Date: 10-09-2004, 09:16
Just remember
israel played once in ASAIN CUP FOR NATIONS (1974 i think)
i really dont know how it happend but it happend
anyway ISRAEL reach final agains...... IRAN (B4 AYATOLAH HOMAINY) and with about 70000 fanatic iranian in Therhan that simply hate us
the crowd was hysteric they cut chikens neck in the stadium..........



the athmosphere was like in "LINCH" the israeli players simply said they afraid to play there AFRAID for themlives with full army ssqude around them no ward about win there .....

no place like home .....(our home in asia)

Re: Non-european countries in UEFA
Author: Nefi
Date: 10-09-2004, 09:22
Highest european mountain is Elbrus. :-)

Re: Non-european countries in UEFA
Author: wehoe
Date: 10-09-2004, 09:37
Israel in UEFA is ok as long its arabish neighbours
dont accept it as neighbour. but it should behave itself in this organisation like a guest without arrogance and religious extravagance. shalom

Re: Non-european countries in UEFA
Author: Forza-AZ
Date: 10-09-2004, 10:34
Well the border is Ural mountains, Caucasus mountains and Caspian sea. The two mountains were formed due to tectonic processes which ocurred as a result of movement of the continents one towards another.

Armenia and Azerbajan have always been recognized as part of Europe. So your teachers are wrong and CIA must update its records. MAP

There still is one flaw in this map. A small part of Kazakhstan shouls also be coloured green.

Re: Non-european countries in UEFA
Author: anita
Date: 10-09-2004, 11:01
Lyonnais, your use of the term "geo-political" makes me wonder if you (as well as USA) is treating the Western hemisphere as USA's backyard. I am not that sure if Caribbean countries (or for that matter Canada) would appreciate Israel in their association because of "geo-political" reasons.

That said, I find it reasonable that Israel is a member of UEFA, as long as the situation (and the history) is what it is. We are where we are, and Europe have an obvious responsibility for the mess down there. Pushing Israel to Oceania or CONCACAF is kind of "washing our hands".

And I still mean that Cyprus is a part of Asia. And Greenland is geographically in America. As we have discussed before, I think Greenlanders would love to play in CONCACAF for climatic reasons. Whether Bahamians would love to go to Greenland and Nuuk, is another toast.....

Re: Non-european countries in UEFA
Author: _GrimReaper
Date: 10-09-2004, 13:53
Forza Kazakhstan !!!

Re: Non-european countries in UEFA
Author: BalkanTourist
Date: 10-09-2004, 14:13
Greenland still belongs to Denmark. Cyprus and Kazakhstan should be in Europe, while Israel should not. That is if we want to be precise. There are other examples of countries not playing where they should: Surinam and Guyana . Why aren't they in S. America?

Re: Non-european countries in UEFA
Author: nesh
Date: 10-09-2004, 17:01
ISRAEL IS FULL MEMBER and if UEFA eccept us it mean all of us with our problems and adition and all "shit"
we have the right to say anything about anything included the system or any rule in UEFA
we are diferent something right but it is not going to change even not the football
it was like that when our fathers live in europe and we also like stranger here in the midle east
we have another way of life another manners and sometime we cant compremize between football and adition 2-3 days per year

AND YES
ISRAEL THANKS A LOT TO UEFA to accept us
in all kinds of sports (basketball athlitics swiming and...) we was ALWAYS in europe accept football (i am really dont know why?)

the israeli footballs sufering years wondrer around the world we never forget that so THANKS UEFA

BUT if UEFA adopt us adopt it mean not like GUESS adopt it mean full member with full right not less from another small country like FINLAND OR CYRPUS

BTW off topic
MACCABI TEL AVIV have to defend in high court next week why the match must play in new year eve and if the high court will get "wrong" decision it will be SHAME for us BUT it happend b4 to our Prime Minister it could happend again ...

Re: Non-european countries in UEFA
Author: Lyonnais
Date: 10-09-2004, 17:16
Mark > don't be ridiculous please.

When I say that Israel and some other European federations should be removed from the UEFA to lighten European competitions (in terms of number of games, not in terms of competition), it is certainly not because France was unable to beat Israel ! Sorry, but this one was so ridiculous.
Frankly, although France is certainly not anymore what it used to be, we still do not feel threatened by the emergence of Israeli football.

And if I say that Israel should be removed from the UEFA that is certainly not because I am somewhat anti-Israeli or anti-semitic as well, as you were saying.

I know that the current Israeli leaders like playing such a dangerous and nasty game as soon as somebody tries to question their policy, or maybe because Israel fail to attract new immigrants, but you give me the opportunity to tell everybody that if France has by far the largest jewish community in Europe (and basically the only remaining one), it might be because the Frenchmen who happen to be jewish feel good at home. Frenchmen feel French before feeling Catholic, Muslim or Jewish, whatever you like it or not.

Coming back to soccer, I just said that as a non-european country, Israel should not be part of UEFA. And as they are unable to play in Asia, I just suggested that they could play with other confederations. That's all and there is nothing here to blame the French for trying to humiliate Israel.

Re: Non-european countries in UEFA
Author: vakho
Date: 10-09-2004, 17:17
Useless polemix - UEFA can pick up any country they want to see playing. This issues should not be treated politically - look at Faroe Isl. , I really should praise Danish that they peacefully taking the ceremonies with Faroes national hymn and flag , same
applies to UK. Imagine what would happen in Spain if Canary Islands would play with own hynm and flag.
It's just a football game so enjoy it - no real political rules apply !

Re: Non-european countries in UEFA
Author: arti
Date: 10-09-2004, 18:35
mark and nesh: I wouldn't be me if I were not to ask a little bit off-topic: How do you thing about Palestine being a full member of FIFA. As far as I know they play in AFC (Asia) and they have all their matches in Qatar?

Also, if I'm not mistaken, they've had their representatives in Olympic Games.

Re: Non-european countries in UEFA
Author: arti
Date: 10-09-2004, 18:36
"How do you feel" of course. Stupid fingers and brain

Re: Non-european countries in UEFA
Author: Omero
Date: 10-09-2004, 19:13
I GUESS THAT EVERYBODY FORGOT THAT IN 99 ISRAEL WERE RANKING 22 IN THE WORLD...

Re: Non-european countries in UEFA
Author: nesh
Date: 10-09-2004, 22:01
I try not to mix politics with football but u did that
u said that you dont want europe adopt us .... its ok from me is your right but to said here simply wrong pic or liers that not
PALASTINE present themself in the olympic game thats true we dont have metter with that dont forget we invited "chair man arafat " to bring peace and freedom to his country but he chioce in teror and blood so it is his very sadly chioce (even he got OSCAR PRIZE for act and special effect)
the palatinian people now suffering becuse them leader chioce so us
so the palastinian team cant play here sometime the army close road to look for terorists , so they cant train or play in time ot even DAYS but ALL OF THEM - the PALASTINIAN TEAM ARE SAFE TO PLAY ANYWHERE HERE

Re: Non-european countries in UEFA
Author: nesh
Date: 10-09-2004, 22:57
And arti
dont woried about the PALATINIAN team for olympic game they are safe
NOT like THE ACTOR AND TERURIST ARAFAT personality GAVE ORDER TO MURDER 11 israelis sports-man for olympic games in 1972
once teruriste always terurist...

Re: Non-european countries in UEFA
Author: hAABet
Date: 12-09-2004, 01:08
Hi

Kazakstan has also a part in the geographical Europe. I am not an expert, but recall something that Cyprus is located on the same subterain as Greece and hench an European Nation. Same with Malta, just same part as Italy.
- The only nation clearly do not belong in Europe is Israel. However due to politics, they can't play in Asia. Historical they played in Australia/Oceania group to WC - but thats even more strange they play in Europe.
If we expand more than just football, Israel is cultural not fare from Europe and has participated in Eurovision loooonnng time before an membership of Uefa.

Re: Non-european countries in UEFA
Author: nesh
Date: 12-09-2004, 05:27
ISRAEL belong to european's federation in
BASKETBALL
TENNIS
HANDBALL
VOLLYBALL
SWIMING
ATHLETICS
JODO
AND....FOOTBALL FIRST FROM 50'S 2NDLY FROM 80'S

Re: Non-european countries in UEFA
Author: anita
Date: 12-09-2004, 13:18
hAAbet, I don't think Europe were named as a geographical area based on tectonic plates. Anyway, Crete may be there, but hardly Cyprus. Then the whole of Turkey (or maybe half)will be in Europe as well. Tectonic plates don't follow country borders or mainland (dry land). Some million years ago Iceland was situated off the west coast of Africa, the Indian peninsula was African as well. San Andreas area in California (San Fransisco) would play in Oceania...

Re: Non-european countries in UEFA
Author: Zibir
Date: 12-09-2004, 15:30
"Who wants to travel to countries so far east"ĐRox

It is very intersting you know.
Many people, who live in France, Spain, UK, FRG and others western countries, think that Europe begin on Atlantic coast and ending in Balkan or Ukraine. If you look at map you will see that geographical central of Europe is situated near Poland, Belorussia, Ukraine and Slovakia. Look at the cattle_ripper's map.
For example, Russian clubs can complain that it don't want to travel to far west.
But it is not possible, because in The Russian Cup or Pervy Divizion (D-2) clubs play in different regions of Russia (11 time zones) and travel through all Europe is not problem of course In Russia played another players, they are more hardy

Re: Non-european countries in UEFA
Author: porto-1978
Date: 12-09-2004, 17:50
oh good lord, so many CAPS!! It seems like violence generate violence...
Who the Cap fit, let them wear it.
Terror have not only one side. When i read politics and common people talking about terror, evil and devil itīs clear for me that is one of the sides of what is called "terrorism", specially in the form of the so-called "preventive war" and militarization promoted by that way of thinking. Every little action have a reaction: the actual state of Israel and USA are some of the major terrorists on the face of earth. Along with the economic and social diferences across the world, those (and many other) nations actions give each day new reasons for the so-called terrorists to be what they are. Terrorism donīt born from the rocks and its seeds were threw to the soil specially during the 70īs and 80īs by american foreign policy īcause of circunstancial reasons (comunism was against religion, so religious fundamentalists pleased and were pleased by american governments all around the world). If you listen Bush and you count the number of times he says "god bless america" and so on, you notice that he is a hell of a fundamentalist! If youīre not convicted watch his (government) steps.

But this is not the subject. Anita is right, Cyprus is not part of european tectonical plate. Itīs an island that came from the southern coast of Turkey near Syria and that is getting closer to Crete, or at least it seems like. By tectonical division also Iceland is not Europe but America. Faroe and Malta are based in european plate.
I agree with the inclusion of all countries in UEFA except Israel. Well i admit Israel in UEFA but for how long?! If Israel tried to make peace, but itīs not what i see. Thereīs no excuses for those who donīt want to behave correctly. Stop blaming the others. Shalom.

Re: Non-european countries in UEFA
Author: mark
Date: 12-09-2004, 22:52
OK this discussion probably was as uninsightful and chuvenistic as this discussion usually turns out (with a lot of finger pointing to every direction) so excuse me for not bothering to read the replies to my post, but I still think that the european attitude towards israel is hypocritical. They treat us as if we have some very infectious terminal decease, but still want to have a say in what we do.

More to the point. In the end of the day UEFA is both a political and commercial entity and not a geographical association. It is political by the way its officials are getting appointed, and it is commercial, otherwise the G-14 will leave UEFA. By politics the former USSR republics had once belonged to uefa so it is logical to have back again. Israel on the other hand has a long relationship both cultural and economical with europe and the EU (between 1950-1967 france was the best/only friend of israel in the world and the 67 war was fought with french air plains and sub marines) so instead of fighting with FIFA on treating Israel fairly the EU had decided that it will be easier to simply have israel join UEFA. Now that israel is in UEFA it is very unlikely that anyone in UEFA will suggest to throw israel out, and the reason would be economical. With the breakdown of many european countries israel had become a mid size "european" country in term of population and GDP (about the same as greece and portugal) and pay more money for TV rights then many other small european countries.

Another reason that Israel is in UEFA, is that UEFA got tired of bullying turkey, and without israel they will be left with only one target for bullying.

Re: Non-european countries in UEFA
Author: Osirius
Date: 16-09-2004, 06:28
Don't think my opinion will be read,if I'm wrong let me know)),but as about Armenia,Georgia and Azerbjian I think for everybody is clear thease are european countries,as for Israel there were many words about it and no need to add anything(Israel is not a comfortable team fo french as in 1993 as not now)) ).As for Khazakstan so there is a part of it in Europe so than it can play in Europe.the same thing with Russia much of it's territory is in Asia near Japan even(and may be some day)teams will have to go to Vladivostok or Khabarovsk(FAR EAST),what would you say than)).Russia is not a part of EUROPE))1960 USSR is a winner of European CUP!

Re: Non-european countries in UEFA
Author: slanders
Date: 16-09-2004, 14:19
Disregarding all the political comments about Israel (sorry wasn't this about football??) The answer to the original question about why certain countries are allowed in European football, is money and power.
Uefa having more football associations than any other conferderation, has more votes to award World Cups and dictate finances and rules making them the dominant conferderation in World football. The advantages to countries such as Israel and Cyprus etc is an increase in money for competitions for their clubs and national teams eg Maccabi Tel Aviv in the Champions League. A case of we'll let you play in our lucrative competitions and you'll vote our way in other important matters. (remember there's no clubs from any other conferdation in the G14!!)
I personally don't think the Israeli people should be denied the opportunity to watch their teams playing international football. As certain Asian and African teams don't want to play them, then they're better off playing in Europe which is the next nearest continent.

Re: Non-european countries in UEFA
Author: ron_4321
Date: 19-09-2004, 18:00
"Well i admit Israel in UEFA but for how long?! If Israel tried to make peace, but itīs not what i see." porto-1978.
listean to this:
in the beginnig of the 90's arafat was runnig Lub and then our prime minuster maka him to come back hear to make peace and arafat wanted an aramy so he talled us he need gunns.
so we gave him and you want to know where we found this weapens after that?
in boombed busses!
so we are not trynig to make peace(and i didnt say abote what happend before 4-5 years...(sorry about the english mastaks)

Re: Non-european countries in UEFA
Author: U@scorpion
Date: 22-09-2004, 15:50
Russia, Turkey and Kazahstan are an Euro-Asian country. The one part of these country is situated in europe, other in Asia. And if Turkish or Israel is not far of Europe that same parts of Russia or Kazahstan is too far. In my opinion Russia and Kazahstan may played in Asia.

Re: Non-european countries in UEFA
Author: SHEV
Date: 22-09-2004, 22:36
UEFA should expel Israel. They are only country that is clear non-european, only country that has a war in it's territory(btw started and continued by them with killing innocent people), country that has "strange" floodlights problem, only country with interesting New Year that jumps all over the calendar and they demand from UEFA to take it into account, country where you can't fly because they striking. What will be next Israel problem to continue this list. Their completely unprofessional attitude ruining all UEFA fights for.

Re: Non-european countries in UEFA
Author: porto-1978
Date: 23-09-2004, 01:47
Shev, donīt forget the situation of curds inside Turkey. The majority of Curdistan territory and people is inside Turkey and have no independence. The conflict exist. By the way, thereīs also Chechenia inside Russia.
Israel may be the UEFA country with more conflict, or more visible and open war, but itīs not the only one. At least Turkey and Russia have conflicts inside borders also. In some extent even Spain and U.K have latent conflicts inside borders (irish and basc situations)... And well i think thereīs still a conflict inside Cyprus...
Well world is not peacefull, maybe is getting worse, even with no cold war "excuse"! Hope football can help to give hands - but sometimes looks like it donīt work exactly that way.

Re: Non-european countries in UEFA
Author: Osiris
Date: 23-09-2004, 09:10
First.
I should totally agree with Vakho that it is "Useless polemic - UEFA can pick up any country they want to see playing.'

Second.
From strictly geografical point of view Russia, Kazakhstan and Turkey are Europian-Asian countries and Israel, Georgia, Armenia, Azerbajzhan are Asian ones.
In the past the border between Europe and Asia in Caucasian region was cosidered to be the Main ridge of Caucasian Mountains. All 3 caucasian countries are behind the Main Ridge i.e in Asia. By the way the Mount Elbrus is not in the Main ridge but in Side (Flank)Ridge of Caucasian Mountains which is to the North from The Main Ridge so it was cosidered to be in Europe and so Elbrus is (was) the highest mountain of Europe 5,642 m abouve sea level.

Three.
I should also agree with Sumil. Approximately 30 years ago it was agreed that the border between Europe and Asia to be Kuma-Manych depression wich is further north from Caucasian Mountains. It meens that now All Caucases includini North Caucases, Elbrus, part of Russia to be cosidered Asia. From the scientific point of view.
But... People still call Elbrus the highest mount of Europe.

Four.
Look at first point.

Re: Non-european countries in UEFA
Author: nesh
Date: 27-09-2004, 19:00
Jps
no one even in UN dont talk about the map from 1947
its canceld becouse the international law about "deffence war" that israel deffend them self

so start from the map from 48
the whole accupied area and basictly the area in ques. offer to arafat and he refused thats after he sign on it thats all fact you need to know and tell to your girl friends to stop feed you bullshit or stop drop it here

i hope it will be more clear for you :

ARAFAT REFUSED THE STATE OF PALASTINE

======================================
http://slate.msn.com/?id=2064500
======================================

like i see you abselutly dont know the facts, it could be peace in 5 min if arafat want to ....

follow arafat : read what CBS told about

HOW ARAFAT STEAL MONEY FROM HIS PEOPLE(1 billion $ WOW)

====================================
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4240021
/http://www.eufunding.org/accountability/EUWorkingGroupReport.html
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suha "antuanette" arafat sufferimg in paris
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4240021/
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here something to think about
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fact? Of the 30 active wars in the world today, 28 are in Islamic nations. Two thirds of the worldīs political prisoners are held by Islamic States which carry out 80% of the executions in the world, not to mention amputating limbs for theft, tongues for slander and murder daughters and sisters who donīt sufficiently control their glances

some historical fact

. The Palestinians Became a People 30 Years Ago!
622 AD Hijra of Mohammed. Islam is founded, four thousand years after Jews were living in Israel.
61 BC Roman conquest of Jerusalem by Pompei. Land is divided into various provinces (maps).
70 AD First Jewish revolt. Fall of the Jewish Second Temple to Romans
133-135 Second Jewish revolt under Bar - Kochba crushed. Judea renamed Palestina by the Romans.
1005 BCE - Jerusalem Established by the Jews. King David builds a Wall around Jerusalem and Transfers the Holy Ark Inside.
950 BCE - King Solomon Builds the First Temple in Jerusalem.
1948 - Modern Israel Established by the United Nations Declaration of Israel as the Jewish State; British leave Palestine; Egypt, Syria, Iraq, Lebanon, Jordan, Saudi Arabia declared war on Israel. Egyptian, Syrian and Jordanian invasion began. Arabs reject U.N. Petition Plan, those living in Israel join the armies of Syria and Egypt. They lose the war, they lose their land. Gaza fell under the jurisdiction of Egypt. The West Bank of the Jordan was occupied by Jordan and later annexed by Jordan.
1964 PLO (Palestine Liberation Organization) founded with the aim of destroying Israel. The Palestinian National Charter (1968) officially called for liquidation of Israel.
1976 Arab terrorists hijack an Air-France airplane to Entebbe in Uganda. IDF commando units landed in Uganda, storm the plane and free most of the hostages.
1978-79 Egyptian President Anwar Sadat came to Jerusalem, spoke in Israeli Knesset (Parliament).
Egyptian President Anwar Sadat and Israeli PM Menachem Begin, meeting at Camp David under the auspices of US President Jimmy Carter, sign peace treaty between Egypt and Israel.
1993 Oslo Declaration of Principles - Israel and PLO agree to mutual recognition, Yasser Arafat and PLO will be allowed to return to Gaza. PLO and Palestinian leadership renounce violence and use of terrorism, and agree to revise the PLO charter to remove chapters referring to destruction of Israel. Palestinian terrorism continues. Arafat's "Peace of the Brave" policy now seen as "Trojan Horse" ploy for the complete conquest of Israel. PLO / PA maps illustrate all of Israel as "Palestine" - hate and incitement taught to young Palestinian children.
1994 Peace treaty between Jordan and Israel.
2000 Israeli withdrawal from a security buffer zone in Lebanon to international border is completed UN declares Israel is compliant with Resolution 425, but Iran's Hizbullah continues to attack Israel. Syria occupies Lebanon with 45,000 troops protecting opium and hashish drug industry in Lebanon's Beka Valley.
Israeli PM Barak, US President Clinton and Palestinian Chairman Yasser Arafat meet at Camp David to hammer out a final peace settlement. Arafat does not respond to Israeli peace proposals and walks out of Camp David. Arafat lobbies European leaders for support - they all respond "go back to Camp David." Arafat turns down a peace deal with Israel for fear of assasination by Hamas and Islamic Jihad. Arafat returns to terrorism with attacks on Israeli civilians using suicide terrorists to blow up Israeli civilian buses and restaurants. Israeli Operation Defensive Shield takes place and captures documents of Arafat's trail of terrorism. The White House refuses to communicate with Arafat and pleas with the Palestinian leadership to elect a true leader for peace. Arafat's Oasis Casino in Jericho is shut down. US and Israeli intelligence discover that Arafat has over 40 million dollars in stolen EU money in personal bank accounts in Switzerland.
2001 - PLO / PA Chairman Yassar Arafat, who was born in Egypt, proclaims Jerusalem the Capital of the Palestinian People!
2003 - Aqaba Summit - Abu Mazen and Ariel Sharon vow to stop violence, end terrority dispute according to the road map. Hamas and Islamic Jihad vow to continue terrorism and drive Israel into the sea.
"father" in low of arafat speeking by him self
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http://www.tellthechildrenthetruth.com/AminAlHusseini.htm
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Re: Non-european countries in UEFA
Author: ekd
Date: 28-09-2004, 19:42
I'd like to see Greenland, Gibraltar, Monaco, Isle of Man taking part at UEFA competitions.