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Author: vakho
Date: 13-10-2005, 11:02
| Since there are many topics on WC06 , I want to post mine
In many sports there is something called B group of world cup - what if the same would be applied for football WC ? Of course without relegation/promotion rules. I like this idea
If it could be this year it would be the following line-up (in case higher ranked teams win in PO), with the same shares from confederation: Europe - Slovakia, Switzerland, Norway, Romania, Denmark, Bosnia, Bulgaria, Russia, Israel, Scotland, Austria, Ireland, Greece
Soth America - Colombia, Chile, Venezuela, Peru, Bolivia
Africa - Cameroon, Morocco, Seneral, Kongo-K, Nigeria
North & Central America - Trinidad, Guatemala, Panama
Asia - Uzbekistan, Kuwait, Noth Korea, China
Oceania - Australia, Solomon Islands |
Author: ignjat63
Date: 13-10-2005, 12:15
| What sports have a B group World Cup? |
Author: Danielos
Date: 13-10-2005, 12:18
| Isn?t Slovakia, Switzerland and Norway playing play-offs? |
Author: Edgar
Date: 13-10-2005, 12:45
| vakho said: in case higher ranked teams win in PO |
Author: spoonman
Date: 13-10-2005, 13:17
| I know that ice hockey has a Group B World Cup. But I think that's only because there's no European championship. |
Author: ignjat63
Date: 13-10-2005, 13:21
| And decades ago Chess Olympiad had A, B, C etc leagues but they gave it up eventually. Now it's played as a Swiss tournament. |
Author: Ricardo
Date: 13-10-2005, 13:38
| Basketbal, Tennis(Davis Cup), Volleyball has B-competition, I think |
Author: sayko
Date: 13-10-2005, 13:41
| losers cup=world cup b :D |
Author: isidromv
Date: 13-10-2005, 15:08
| Also rolling hockey and rugby have B competitions. |
Author: vakho
Date: 13-10-2005, 18:22
| Indeed mentioned sports have such formula. I have friends from non-european countries that actually treat any game of national team as valuable. We in Europe are very snobbish , best worlds players play in Europe, EC and WC qualifiers are competitive even friendlies mostly played amongst just european teams. In Asia for example they have only 6 qualifying games, for New Zealand it's even worse - several games per 4 years with other island's teams - and no quality national championship - it's boaring!
Of course for African nations every inter-continental game is the show. Of course Europe teams that did not qualify will not like to play in "looser's cup" - the story is that people and players from country that took 4th place on it's continent don't think they are actually loosers. |
Author: iwan
Date: 13-10-2005, 18:40
| A looserscup can be possible, 32 teams, include the loosers off the 5 play-offs to play, the 5 African runners-up, the nrs-2 and 3 of Oceania, the European nrs-3 etc, and a host, it can give more possiblities a tournement for the 33th place, ore maybe for 1 to 6 spots for the WTC in 2010, but I've may doubt ore it realy works. |
Author: anita
Date: 13-10-2005, 21:57
Edited by: anita at: 13-10-2005, 22:02 | It would have to be arranged during the WC-06, and firstly, FIFA/UEFA would not let their members arrange a "group B tournament" during the WC. Secondly, who is really interested in such an arrangement during the WC. TV-companies? Spectators or TV-audience? Even as I a Norwegian patriot would not choose Norway-Slovakia in B-WC when Brazil-England are on another channel in the real WC. |
Author: Serge
Date: 15-10-2005, 17:25
| It is not obligatory that the 2 tournaments go paralel. WC A may go in June and WC B in July. It's a good ideea, fifa must think about it,this would make football more exciting and with less dissapointment!!! WC B wouldn't mean a weaker competition, because there are plenty of good teams that didin't qualify. |
Author: Giuseppe
Date: 15-10-2005, 17:32
| Interesting ideea, but I doubt countries like Romania, Denmark, Russia or Cameroon would even conseider playing in such a competition. |
Author: iwan
Date: 15-10-2005, 19:36
| It's possible to hold that WCT-B in june, and 2 month later, in august the WCT-A. At that Worldcup-B 32 ore 48 countries can play and the best 4 ore 8 will qalify for WCT-A, that means 56 to 72 has chance to become wordchampion 3 month before the heath-final off the final-A-tournement!
It's possible countries can qualify for WTC-A in october/november in the year before the WTC (what allready happens now) and the lottery for the pools can be held in december.
They can later the 4 ore 8 countries who qualify be the WTC-B in juni all off them in the same 1 ore 2 pools.
Countries who qalify for the WCT-A can still kwow in december against with countries they must play in the groopstage off the WCT-A!!! |
Author: hAABet
Date: 16-10-2005, 00:55
| First of all. Its to my knowledge, just a matter of time when it will come. Fifa's own prediction is the earlist will be 2012.
Loosers cup: I would dispute this one. In a 16 team B-WC ot 1-goal-away cup would be a better description. Some time this goal, has been due to a referee decision or a bad pitch.
There will of course be some teams with a questionable level / marketing name, but most of them will have a fair name.
The sport in it: Just as i wrote before, most of these team has been 1 goal away, at least for a PO. Secondly look at the teams:
Greece: Defending eurochamps, Fifa rank:20 Denmark: 92 champ*; Fifa rank 14, Ireland, Fifa rank 21 Russia, Romania
Marocco, nation cup finalist 2004 Nigeria, national cup bronze winner 2004
China, asian cup finalist 2004 Bahrain, asian cup, semi-finalist.
Columbia
* in case people has forgot, they DID NOT qualify, and yet won. It say it all. Another ref, another draw would give different teams who qualify, and if you look at the FIfa rank, there is 19 teams itha score above 700 and only Brail with more than 800. the next cut above 600 is at 48 teams, which is Serbia-Montenegro and they did well: OR in theory the 32 A teams and 16 B-teams.
So the real life is, there is maybe 5-10 teams who realy stands out and then teh world has another 50-70 teams which can be considered good/ above average. |
Author: iwan
Date: 16-10-2005, 01:09
| Thanks for your information!!! When it had happened at this WCT 16 teams, the 10 you called, the 5 teams who gonne loose in the play-offs and a host?!?! |
Author: hAABet
Date: 17-10-2005, 00:36
| This year is there 5 play-offs.
The rest will particial be found by the ranking, like Bahrain beat Uzbekistan. Triniad surpassed Guatemala. Uruguay was just ahead of Columbia.
For many europeans tram , it will perhaps not be attractive to participate, froma economical view but from a sportial view it will. After this failing a A-cup, many players will drop out. The next must played into the team for the next quialification, here a B-cup will good chance. But some european teams maybe want use it as a training/experience. Like this year Ukraine made it for the first time. They will have benefitted from a B-cup in 2002, organisationel and perhaps would have made it in 2004. Also this year Slovakia got their first PO and its same story, and this will be even stronger when we move outside Europe and here the economical reason not to participate will shade away.
And about the economics: I read that the Danish FA calculate they will have lost 3,5 mill. dollars from lost WC qualifier, the line-up fee is 7,5 mill. This give us a overall sum of 240 mill. $ and the prize sum is 190 mill. $. The general organisations, cost and marketing cost which is rather high but combied up 100 mill.$ Then there is stadium contribution, I am not sure what Fifa give, but Portugal got 78 mill.€ for euro04' or almost 100 mill.$. Its difficult to imagine that WC would be less. Fifa also give money out to non-WC team after the games, 30-50 mill.$ and use some for other activity, like Y-15,17 a.s.o. which has difficult to be self-financed.
a B-wc with existing stadium, and 10% in line-up fee and 1 mill. in winners prize, and no extra costs, a B-cup can be made for 25 mill.$ Or 1,5 mill. per team. Is that reaslstic to get?
Yes, because a small country like mine pay 12-15 mill.$ for the tv-rigths for all tournment. To imagine a sum of 1 mill.$ IF my country played in a B-cup, is not diffict and very realistic. This goes for the sponsors as well. And finally the fans: The 10% is the answer. The tickets sold, only represent 10-20% of what could be sold in A-cup and the hardcore fans would go anyway so its not hard to imagine 5000 fans per european country pr game. 15-20 $ a piece.
And thats lead me to the end. 10-12 of the teams but be found from qualification alone, but due to economics (at least the first 1-2-3 tournments)4-6 teams must be selected from fifa ranking and a marketing rank. |
Author: iwan
Date: 23-10-2005, 22:07
Edited by: iwan at: 23-10-2005, 22:14 | A Worldcup-B(B-WTC) will be a better solution than a tournement with 48 ore 64 countries!!!
That B-WTC can be helt one jear after the A-WTC, it's possible to do that to give every continent a disided spots like the A-WTC, but it will be too possible to let play countries who received 2 points ore less to qalify for the A-WTC, countries in ranking ore countries who played very well in otter tournements (like Greece at the ECT,Panama in the CONCACAFGOLDCUP).
There can play,32 ore 36 countries at the A-WCT and 16,24 ore 32 at the B-WCT, maybe the FIFA can diside every time what's better when the'll see the qalificationresults ore 16,24 ore 32 will be better, maybe when it should had happens this time 24:
Scotland,Senegal, Nigeria,Ireland,Cameroon,Greece,Latvia,Russia,Guatamala,Israel,Colombia, Solomonds Island, New-Zealand,Oezbeckistan,Panama, the 5 teams who gonne loose in the play-offs and a host.
Maybe only yhe host can play at the A-WCT and the B-WTC. |
Author: iwan
Date: 30-10-2005, 14:45
Edited by: iwan at: 30-10-2005, 20:57 | Nearest the countries I've called earlier,China,Morrocco and Jamaica can play in it too,then there are 24 countries!! And when the host should be qualified than South-Africa too!! |
Author: MalcolmW
Date: 30-10-2005, 19:26
| ... soon you'll be advocating 48. |
Author: iwan
Date: 30-10-2005, 21:02
| Yes a B-WCT with 48 teams,that can be possible too!!!! |
Author: spoonman
Date: 30-10-2005, 22:35
| |
Author: iwan
Date: 30-10-2005, 22:49
| A B-WCT will be a real option, but no more than 2 month earlier ore later ten a WCT,ECT ore Confederasionscup(=CC).
Maybe the CC can be helt every 4 instead 2 jears than there will be enough time for the B-WCT !!!! |
Author: isidromv
Date: 31-10-2005, 08:54
| I would prefer, a WC with 37 and a WC-B with 33, but I can not imagine which could the format be.
iwan, could you, please, help me and give some ideas about the format of these competitions? Sure you can . |
Author: alono
Date: 31-10-2005, 18:03
| I'll start...
you want 33? OK, make it 3 groups of 11 teams or 11 groups of 3 teams or alternatively 1 group of 13 teams and 1 group of 20 teams (make sure that nepal, cook islands, dominican republic and madagascar are inside the second group to ensure world-class fascinating football)...i'm tired, iwan, continue from this point, please.
Have a good day |
Author: iwan
Date: 03-11-2005, 18:14
Edited by: iwan at: 03-11-2005, 18:25 | Dear Alono,
You're realy serius with pools of 11,13 ore 20!?!?? And what to do in the 2nd groopstage ore play-offs!?!? Be serieus!?!??
At the A-WCT can play 32 ore 36 teams. This teams both options are reasonible!!
At the B-WCT 16,24 ore 32, dependible witch countries deserve it, this time(when it realy had happened) 24 should be the best!! I've said earlier why.
Dear Isimdrov,
With 32 they can play the same sistem like the last 2 WCT's. By 36 (from the 10 teams how must play play-offs now only Norway ant Switserland has to play a play-off against each-otter for 1 spot than). There are 3 possiblities:
12 Pools of 3 the best 2 off each will be put in 8 pools off 3 for each 2 spots in the 1/8th-final.
Better will be: 9 Pools of 4, the 9 winners and the 7 best runners-up go in too the 1/8th-final, ore the 5 best runners-up will be placed directly and the worst 4 must play play-offs for 2 spots.
Ore the best system: Than the 4 runners-up who'll finish first (from pool-A to -D) must play play-offs at he same time like the two 1st 1/8th-finals. In the play-offs will be played: A2-B2 and C2-D2
In the 1/8th-finals will be played than: A1-E2 B1-F2 C1-G2 D2-H2 E1-i2 F1-G1 H1-i1 A2/B2-C2/D2
A country in a pool with 38% chance to reach the 2nd round allways can play against a runner-up in that 2nd round and a country in a pool with 50% 9 off the 10 against a winner!!! |
Author: Lunaris
Date: 04-11-2005, 10:41
| iwan, do you know what sarkasm is?
at least alono knows what it is, maybe you'll find out soon too
that would be better for you, instead of answering alono's post in your way
and to reply to your post
you better be serious as well |
Author: iwan
Date: 05-11-2005, 21:45
Edited by: iwan at: 05-11-2005, 21:57 | I've never prefaired a prime number!! A tournement(A ore B) with 36 countries can take not more than 4 days more than they have now!!At the WCT-A 32 ore 36 countries, the WCT-B, 16,24 ore 32 can be possible,but I think not before 2011. |
Author: spoonman
Date: 05-11-2005, 21:53
| Why don't you go all the way? You could work out a format for a World Cup tournament with 200 teams. Qualifying rounds would become unnecessary, and the whole tournament would only last for about 12 months... |
Author: MalcolmW
Date: 05-11-2005, 21:55
| How about 162 in 27 groups of 6 with 2 each qualifying? Then 9 groups of 6 with 2 each qualifying. Then 3 groups of 6 with 2 qualifying for a final pool of 6. ***No need for preliminaries because everyone takes part. ******But the tournament lasts from one WC to the next... |
Author: iwan
Date: 05-11-2005, 22:04
Edited by: iwan at: 05-11-2005, 23:43 | Than there must be played 600 matches at the final tournement!!! I've never prefaired more than 97!!! Please be serieus!!!!
I'm talking about an A-WTC, to don't confuse the both tournements with each-otter, I'll start a new discussion!! |
Author: Kees
Date: 07-11-2005, 21:49
| When people find 48 to mutch, maybe a Worldcup-B can be a good alternative fore countries who receive 2 points ore less in 10 matches to can qualify like Norway and Ireland did. |
Author: caroline
Date: 07-11-2005, 21:56
| I can agree with Vakho and Iwan!! |
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