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Top 10 European Leagues
Author: forbsey
Date: 08-11-2005, 01:53
The coefficients 'statistically' tells us the European Leagues in order of quality. But what, in your opinion, is the top 10 leagues in Europe?

1. England
2. Spain
3. Italy
4. Germany
5. France
6. Netherlands
7. Portugal
8. Greece
9. Turkey
10. Belgium

Re: Top 10 European Leagues
Author: Alexfriend
Date: 08-11-2005, 07:40
Let me guess,forbsey. You are netherlander, don´t you?

Your ranking will be better if you put Netherland behind Portugal.

Ask Ronald Koeman or Co Adriense...

Besides, Portugal is four "long" points ahead from Netherland in the UEFA country ranking, witch means more twenty four field points.

Re: Top 10 European Leagues
Author: Edgar
Date: 08-11-2005, 08:31
Edited by: Edgar
at: 08-11-2005, 08:36
Country ranking - based on the last 5 seasons, but using another formula. Instead of 01/02 + 02/03 + 03/04 + 04/05 + 05/06, I used (01/02 + 02/03*2 + 03/04*3 + 04/05*4 + 05/06*5)/3

Between parentheses, the UEFA rank and the UEFA ranking value.
 1 ( 1) Spain              57.727 (64.034)
2 ( 3) England 57.026 (57.486)
3 ( 2) Italy 54.374 (58.588)
4 ( 4) France 45.660 (45.531)
5 ( 5) Germany 38.673 (43.489)
6 ( 6) Portugal 36.985 (41.874)
7 ( 7) Netherlands 36.275 (38.164)
8 (11) Russia 31.569 (27.333)
9 ( 9) Belgium 28.500 (29.500)
10 (14) Ukraine 27.217 (25.350)
11 (16) Romania 25.929 (21.790)
12 (10) Scotland 25.833 (29.125)
13 ( 8) Greece 25.081 (31.248)
14 (13) Turkey 24.069 (25.416)
15 (12) Czech Republic 23.217 (25.575)
16 (18) Austria 21.500 (20.375)
17 (20) Norway 21.342 (20.175)
18 (15) Switzerland 21.125 (22.375)
19 (19) Bulgaria 19.638 (20.290)
20 (21) Serbia-Montenegro 18.611 (19.249)
21 (17) Israel 16.250 (21.541)
22 (23) Denmark 15.283 (16.700)
23 (22) Poland 15.125 (18.500)
24 (24) Hungary 14.665 (14.665)
25 (26) Sweden 12.721 (13.249)
26 (27) Slovakia 12.555 (11.999)
27 (29) Slovenia 11.665 (10.165)
28 (25) Croatia 11.472 (14.083)
29 (28) Cyprus 10.665 (10.165)
30 (30) Bosnia-Herzegovina 8.498 ( 8.165)
31 (31) Finland 8.456 ( 7.373)
32 (32) Latvia 8.275 ( 7.164)
33 (33) Moldova 7.332 ( 6.832)
34 (35) Lithuania 7.054 ( 5.832)
35 (34) Georgia 6.331 ( 6.331)
36 (37) Iceland 5.610 ( 4.832)
37 (36) Macedonia 5.609 ( 5.331)
38 (40) Ireland 5.498 ( 4.331)
39 (38) Liechtenstein 5.167 ( 4.500)
40 (39) Belarus 4.582 ( 4.415)
41 (41) Albania 3.999 ( 3.665)
42 (42) Armenia 3.220 ( 2.998)
43 (43) Estonia 3.109 ( 2.665)
44 (47) Azerbaijan 2.944 ( 1.999)
45 (46) Northern Ireland 2.554 ( 2.332)
46 (49) Kazakhstan 2.166 ( 1.666)
47 (45) Wales 1.998 ( 2.332)
48 (48) Luxembourg 1.888 ( 1.832)
49 (50) Faroe Islands 1.831 ( 1.665)
50 (44) Malta 1.721 ( 2.665)
51 (51) Andorra 0.000 ( 0.000)
52 (52) San Marino 0.000 ( 0.000)

Who has to win?

Top 10:

Romania - Up 5 (16 -> 11)
Ukraine - Up 4 (14 -> 10)
Russia - Up 3 (11 -> 8)
Norway - Up 3 (20 -> 17)
Azerbaijan - Up 3 (47 -> 44)
Kazakhstan - Up 3 (49 -> 46)
Austria - Up 2 (18 -> 16)
Slovenia - Up 2 (29 -> 27)
Ireland - Up 2 (40 -> 38)
England - Up 1 (3 -> 2)

Who has to lose?

Top 10:

Malta - Down 6 (44 -> 50)
Greece - Down 5 (8 -> 13)
Israel - Down 4 (17 -> 21)
Czech Republic - Down 3 (12 -> 15)
Switzerland - Down 3 (15 -> 18)
Croatia - Down 3 (25 -> 28)
Scotland - Down 2 (10 -> 12)
Wales - Down 2 (45 -> 47)
Italy - Down 1 (2 -> 3)
Turkey - Down 1 (13 -> 14)

So, the top 10 European Leagues (based on European Cups performance):

1. Spain
2. England
3. Italy
4. France
5. Germany
6. Portugal
7. Netherlands
8. Russia
9. Belgium
10. Ukraine

Re: Top 10 European Leagues
Author: vlad-tzepesh
Date: 08-11-2005, 10:20
Edgar, your table is indeed interesting, but not entirely relevant. I think that the strength of a domestic league should be determined as a result of a global assessment, which must comprise apart from recent European performance, criteria such as the budgets of the teams, the infrastructure, even attendance and public interest, maybe all seasoned with a pinch of tradition. This would of course represent a more subjective analysis, albeit a more complete one.

Re: Top 10 European Leagues
Author: Osiris
Date: 08-11-2005, 11:49
Edgar,
thanks a lot. Your table is very sound. It corresponds to FIFA ranking method and is much more relevant to the ligues' real strenth.

Re: Top 10 European Leagues
Author: exile
Date: 08-11-2005, 14:13
This method is too sensitive to a single bad (or good) season.

I suggest taking 2 x the last 5 years coefficient and adding to
years 6 to 10. This gives

1 Spain
2 Italy
3 England
4 Germany
5 France
6 Portugal
7 Netherlands
8 Greece
9 Scotland
10 Belgium

Rankings by average attendance

1 Germany
2 England
3 Spain
4 Italy
5 Scotland
6 Netherlands
7 Russia
8 Portugal
9 Belgium
10 Norway

NB The 2nd divisions of England and Germany would qualify
for the top 10 in this list (in fact England level 2 would be 5th!)

By average attendance of "top" club

1 Spain (Barcelona)
2 Germany (Dortmund)
3 England (Man U)
4 Greece (Panathinaikos)
5 Scotland (Celtic)
6 Italy (Milan)
7 France (Marseille)
8 Netherlands (Ajax)
9 Portugal (Porto)
10 Switzerland (Basel)

As far as budget is concerned - we have the European "Rich List"

1 Man U
2 Real Madrid
3 Milan
4 Chelsea
5 Juventus
6 Arsenal
7 Barcelona
8 Inter
9 Bayern
10 Liverpool

Obviously this doesn't tell us the 10 richest leagues.

However in the top 20 clubs

England has 8
Italy 5
Spain 2
Germany 2
Scotland 2
France 1

So I would suggest (tentatively)

England, Italy, Spain, Germany, France,
Netherlands, Scotland, Belgium, Portugal, Russia, Greece

(I've dropped Scotland a few places as 80% of turnover is accounted
for by 2 clubs)

Tradition?

That would suggest the clubs who have been first-class professional
clubs (or of equivalent standard in amateur leagues such as the
Soviet league) for the longest - which would mean a list dominated
by British clubs. Teams such as Sunderland, Aston Villa, Everton, Preston North End, Blackburn Rovers, and Queen's Park (Glasgow) who played in an FA Cup final over 120 years ago (although they have not been in the top division in Scotland since 1958).

My own suggestion for the winner on tradition? Blackburn Rovers. Were the top club in England in the mid 1880s (and thus probably top or 2nd top club in the World) and still able to win a national title in the 1990s.

Re: Top 10 European Leagues
Author: exile
Date: 08-11-2005, 14:22
Lost the thread there -

of course, if we are talking about the top LEAGUE based on tradition, there is only one winner - the English Football League (now the Premiership) with Scotland a close second.

From the formation of the leagues up to about 1930, the top British team was without doubt the top club in the world.

Since European competition started, England is at the top of the rankings with Spain on more or less whatever basis you choose.

Now I'm not pro-English but I don't think this can be argued against!

Lower down the rankings - other than rank leagues by when they were formed, or adopted professionalism, not sure how we can make a sensible top 10 ranking.

Re: Top 10 European Leagues
Author: forbsey
Date: 08-11-2005, 14:40
I know that country population doesn't ultimately determine the quality of the domestic league but If you look at the coefficients and the relative populations of the respective nations, it makes interesting reading:

Spain 40,280,780
England 49,138,831
Italy 58,057,477
France 60,424,213
Portugal 10,524,145
Germany 82,424,609
Netherlands 16,318,199
Greece 10,647,529
Belgium 10,348,276
Scotland 5,062,011
Turkey 68,893,918
Czech Rep 10,246,178
Russia 143,782,338
Ukraine 47,732,079
Isreal 6,199,008
Poland 38,626,349
Austria 8,174,762
Serb & M 10,825,900
Switzerland 7,450,867
Norway 4,574,560
Bulgaria 7,517,973
Romania 22,355,551
Croatia 4,496,869
Hungary 10,032,375
Denmark 5,413,392
Sweden 8,986,400
Slovakia 5,423,567
Slovenia 2,011,473
Cyprus 775,927
Bosnia H 4,007,608
Latvia 2,306,306
Georgia 4,693,892
Moldova 4,446,455
Finland 5,214,512
Lithuania 3,607,899
Iceland 293,966
Macedonia 2,071,210
Liechtenstein 33,436
Belarus 10,310,520
Albania 3,544,808
Malta 396,851
Ireland 3,969,558
Armenia 2,991,360
Estonia 1,341,664
Northern I 1,865,267
Wales 2,903,085
Luxemborg 462,690
Faroe Island 46,662
Kazakhstan 15,143,704
Andorra 69,865
San Marino 28,503

The Scottish league gets a lot of criticism but when you consider the population, I am rather proud that we are above the likes of Turkey, Russia and Poland who, by comparison, have much higher populations.

The biggest underachiever has to be Germnany, the population they have and the attendances they get suggest that they should be up there with the Spain, England and Italy coefficients. Other underachievers are the likes of; Russia, Turkey, Poland, Ukraine, Romania, Kazakhstan and Belarus. Overachievers are the likes of; Scotland, Israel, Cyprus and Liechtenstein.

Re: Top 10 European Leagues
Author: Lyonnais
Date: 08-11-2005, 15:35
Edgar, your table is interesting. It's like a forecast of UEFA coefficients in the next positions.
Rather than focusing on positions only, I just made the difference between the current number of points and your calculation.

Ups and downs are the following:

Ups: Russia (+4.236), Romania (+4.139), Ukraine (+1.867), Slovenia (+1.500), Lithuania (+1.222), etc.
Downs: Spain (-6.307), Greece (-6.167), Israel (-5.291), Portugal (-4.889), Germany (-4.816), etc..

Otherwise, general comment, I never believed that the strength of a League could be measured by the average audience and certainly not by its "tradition" (and this is rather funny that you British tend to rank England and Scotland 1st and 2nd, while I presumably would have ranked Spain and Italy first as they were the first leagues to accumulate European successes).
This said, Exile, I don't know the source of your audience ranking but I cannot really explain how France is not in your Top 10. That's not important anyway.

Re: Top 10 European Leagues
Author: kintore11
Date: 08-11-2005, 15:41
Forbsey

Your table is very interesting I have always believed that given its small size Scotland is the most passionate footballing nation per head of population.

Has anyone worked out a table of the % of population for each nation who regularly attend top flight football. I assume Scotland would be top but then who?

Re: Top 10 European Leagues
Author: SHEV
Date: 08-11-2005, 16:05
Edited by: SHEV
at: 08-11-2005, 16:07
Can't see Scotland in top-10. There is only two teams which are deserve to be called big while others are way below even avarage. And the fact that those two teams are pathetic last years don't give a right to include Scotland in top-10 at all. Russia should be way ahead by all measurments. Even if compare to Ukraine(!!! which is surely not in top-10) we see the same picture except for Scotland has larger audience and better traditions and it's well compensated by larger budgets and much better teams other from top-2 in Ukraine. Then how someone could put Scotland in top-10?

Re: Top 10 European Leagues
Author: Ricardo
Date: 08-11-2005, 16:15
@exile,
You started with something interesting: Total budget of a league. Winners ofcourse in that area is England with their huge TV contract. I am missing in your list Turkey. I don't know about the other teams, but Fenerbahce has the budget of the top-3 of Netherlands(PSV, Ajax & AZ together) maybe even more!
Maybe we can also make a ranking budget/coefficient, like the inhabitants/coefficeint.

A top-10 is difficult to make, as is shown in this thread, what are your conditions - attendance, goals, budget, .... And what is the timeframe you are refering to: last 5 years, 10, 25, 50...
I like the UefaCoefficients, though maybe a gradual importance(20-40-60-80-100) would be better to give current strength.

Re: Top 10 European Leagues
Author: Gauss
Date: 08-11-2005, 17:09
I would confirm Lyonnais that France has a higher average attendance than Scotland. I know the following average attendances for the 2004/05 season:

Germany 37813
England 33900
Spain 28864
Italy 25890
France 21325
(England 2nd 17329)
Netherlands 16251
Scotland 15614
(Germany 2nd 13509)

Re: Top 10 European Leagues
Author: Giuseppe
Date: 08-11-2005, 19:10
This is a table of averege attendances in Europe(for the last season); I also posted the club with the highes averege attendance from every country and also the highest attendance in the last season.

1. Germany - 37.771 (BV 09 Borussia Dortmund - 77.294; BV 09 Borussia Dortmund - 83.000)
2. England - 33.890 (Manchester United - 67.748; Manchester United - 67.989)
3. Spain - 28.401 (FC Barcelona - 73.357; FC Barcelona - 97.905)
4. Italy - 25.472 (AC Milan 1899 - 63.595; AC Milan 1899 - 79.775)
5. France - 21.392 (Olympique de Marseille - 52.996; Olympique de Marseille - 57.041)
6. Turkey - 16.799 (Fenerbahçe SK Istanbul - 41.636; Galatasaray SK - 70.125)
7. Netherlands - 16.237 (AFC Ajax - 48.571; AFC Ajax - 50.765)
8. Scotland - 15.659 (Celtic - 57.943; Celtic - 59.998)
9. Russia - 11.574 (FK Kryl'ya Sovetov Samara - 25.500; FK Kryl'ya Sovetov Samara - 35.000)
10. Portugal - 10.624 (FC do Porto - 36.038; SL Benfica - 64.000
11. Sweden - 9.764 (Malmö FF - 20.061; IFK Göteborg - 38.983)
12. Belgium - 9.715 (Club Brugge KV - 24.432; Club Brugge KV - 27.734)
13. Denmark - 8.589 (FC København - 21.543; FC København - 40.654)
14. Norway - 7.966 (Rosenborg BK - 17.383; Vålerenga IF - 23.591)
15. Ukraine - 7.199 (FK Shakhtar Donets'k - 18.668; Metalist Kharkiv - 32.000)
16. Romania - 6.764 (FCU Politehnica Timisoara - 18.000; FCU Politehnica Timisoara - 40.000)
17. Austria - 6.757 (SK Rapid Wien 14.718; SK Rapid Wien - 46.076)
18. Greece - 5.944 (AEK Athina - 26.928; AEK Athina - 63.129)
19. Poland - 5.230 (SSA Pogon Szczecin - 9.846; SSA Pogon Szczecin - 18.000)
10. Kazakhstan - 4.741 (FK Irtysh Pavlodar - 8.456; FK Shakhtyor IK Karagandy - 13.000)
21. Israel - 4.736 (Maccabi Haifa -16,500; Maccabi Haifa - 16,500)
22. Czech Rep. - 3.860 (FC Baník Ostrava - 8.028; FC Baník Ostrava - 15.419)
23. Hungary - 3.265 (Debreceni VSC - 6.347; Diósgyöri-Balaton FC - 15.000)
24. Cyrpus - 2.864 (APOEL Nicosia - 7.714; APOEL Nicosia - 20.441)
25. Bulgaria - 2.763 (CSKA Sofia - 4.813; CSKA Sofia - 22.000)
26. Croatia - 2.682 (HNK Hajduk Split - 7.750; HNK Hajduk Split - 25.000)
27. Finland - 2.614 (TPS Turku - 3.822; FC Lathi - 12.850)
28. Bosnia/Herzegovina - 2.495 (FK Sarajevo - 6.875;FK Sarajevo - 20.000)
29. Albania - 2.366 (KS Vllaznia Shkodër - 4.255; KS Vllaznia Shkodër - 10.000)
30. Slovakia - 2.261 (FC Artmedia Bratislava - 3.979; FC Dukla Banská Bystrica - 8.414)
31. Belarus - 1.977 (FC Gomel' - 3.967;FC Gomel' - 15.000)
32. Serbia-Montenegro - 1.978 (FK Crvena Zvezda Beograd - 4.533; FK Crvena Zvezda Beograd - 30.000)
33. Ireland - 1.863 (Cork City - 4.033; Cork City - 9.000)
34. Azerbaidjan - 1.623 (FK Khazar Lenkoran - 5.388; FK Neftchi Baku - 21.000)
35. Moldova - 1.566 (Sheriff Tiraspol - 3.908; Sheriff Tiraspol - 13.000)
36. Georgia - 1.145 (FC Zestafoni - 3.461; Torpedo Kutaisi - 12.000)
37. Iceland - 1.027 (KR Reykjavík - 1.598; FH Hafnarfjördur - 3.225)
38. Lithuania - 950 (FK Ekranas Panevezys - 8.000; FK Ekranas Panevezys - 8.000)
39. Slovenia - 823 (NK Mura Murska Sobota - 1.394; NK Mura Murska Sobota - 4.000)
40. Latvia - 750 (FHK Liepâjas Metalurgs - 1.945; FHK Liepâjas Metalurgs - 6.500)
41. Luxemburg - 345 (AS La Jeunesse d'Esch/Alzette - 901; AS La Jeunesse d'Esch/Alzette - 2.085)
42. Wales - 274 (Rhyl - 591; Rhyl - 1.172)
43. Estonia - 176 (JK Merkuur Tartu - 408; FC Levadia Tallinn - 1.700)

Macedonia, Liechtenstein, Armenia, Malta, Northern Ireland, Faroe Islands, Andorra, San Marino - I didn't find any statistics for these countries... can anyone help?

Re: Top 10 European Leagues
Author: Giuseppe
Date: 08-11-2005, 19:29
This is the top 15, when it comes to the maximum attendance:
1. Spain (FC Barcelona - 97.905)
2. Germany (BV 09 Borussia Dortmund - 83.000)
3. Italy (AC Milan 1899 - 79.775)
4. Turkey (Galatasaray SK - 70.125)
5. England (Manchester United - 67.989)
6. Portugal (SL Benfica - 64.000)
7. Greece (AEK Athina - 63.129)
8. Scotland (Celtic - 59.998)
9. France (Olympique de Marseille - 57.041)
10. Netherlands (AFC Ajax - 50.765)
11. Austria (SK Rapid Wien - 46.076)
12. Denmark (FC København - 40.654)
13. Romania (FCU Politehnica Timisoara - 40.000)
14. Sweden (IFK Göteborg - 38.983)
15. Russia (FK Kryl'ya Sovetov Samara - 35.000)

It's interesting to see that Belgium doesn't make it into this top (because in the whole league they don't have a stadium with over 30.000 seats). Also countries with a big population don't make into the top 15 - Ukraine or Poland.

Re: Top 10 European Leagues
Author: SHEV
Date: 08-11-2005, 20:06
Ukrainian cup final has attendance - 83200

Re: Top 10 European Leagues
Author: Giuseppe
Date: 08-11-2005, 20:09
Edited by: Giuseppe
at: 08-11-2005, 20:10
I was talking about the league, so don't go defensive on me . In the past the Romanian Cup final would get 60.000 - 80.000 (especially if the finalists were Steaua and Dinamo); however the interest has since dropped...

Re: Top 10 European Leagues
Author: Gauss
Date: 08-11-2005, 20:55
Edited by: Gauss
at: 08-11-2005, 21:01
Liechtenstein doesn't have a league. But FC Vaduz has an average attendance of 1367 in the second swiss league (season 2004/05).

Edit: Switzerland is missing in your table, as well: 8299, (FC Basel 24939, FC Basel 31383)

Re: Top 10 European Leagues
Author: Giuseppe
Date: 08-11-2005, 23:08
Edited by: Giuseppe
at: 08-11-2005, 23:09
OK, right; so adding Switzerland this means:
.............................................................
11. Sweden - 9.764 (Malmö FF - 20.061; IFK Göteborg - 38.983)
12. Belgium - 9.715 (Club Brugge KV - 24.432; Club Brugge KV - 27.734)
13. Denmark - 8.589 (FC København - 21.543; FC København - 40.654)
14. Switzerland - 8299, (FC Basel 24939; FC Basel 31383)
15. Norway - 7.966 (Rosenborg BK - 17.383; Vålerenga IF - 23.591)
16. Ukraine - 7.199 (FK Shakhtar Donets'k - 18.668; Metalist Kharkiv - 32.000)
17. Romania - 6.764 (FCU Politehnica Timisoara - 18.000; FCU Politehnica Timisoara - 40.000)
.............................................................

Re: Top 10 European Leagues
Author: Lyonnais
Date: 08-11-2005, 23:36
25,000 average audience for Basel ? that's pretty good.

Re: Top 10 European Leagues
Author: jarv
Date: 09-11-2005, 00:44
What is the largest attendance for a European tie, domestic league match & domestic cup tie?

Re: Top 10 European Leagues
Author: SHEV
Date: 09-11-2005, 09:30
I suppose it was in Spain at Bernabeu or Camp Nou. I'm personnally attended match Dynamo-Barcelona(CLQual) in 1993, Dynamo-Panathanaikos(CL) in 95, Dynamo-Karpaty(Cup final) in 93, Dynamo-Panathanaikos(friendly!!!) in 94, Dynamo-Barcelona(CL) in 97, Dynamo-Juventus(1/4 CL) in 98 where attendance was 103000 each.

Re: Top 10 European Leagues
Author: ignjat63
Date: 09-11-2005, 15:23
1960 Champion's cup final in Glasgow Hampden Park Real Madrid-Eintracht Frankfurt 135000 spectators.

Re: Top 10 European Leagues
Author: MalcolmW
Date: 09-11-2005, 16:14
FA Cup Final 1913 Aston Villa v Sunderland at Crystal Palace 120,081.

Re: Top 10 European Leagues
Author: jarv
Date: 09-11-2005, 17:27
I believe all 3 records are for matches in Scotland.
The aforementioned Hampden final, for a game outwith a final I believe Celtic v Leeds in 71 is the largest.
An old firm game at Ibrox in the league has an attendance of 118000.
Aberdeen v Celtic Scottish cup final attracted more than 147000.

I don't believe the Scottish league is the top league, only that per head of population more Scots pay to go to games than any other nationality.

I've never seen a club take more fans to a match in Glasgow (both sides of the old firm) for a European tie than travel to a corresponding fixture.

Seville was a good example of this, similar size of clubs but size of support, well there wasn't a comparison (remember how much easier it is to get to Seville from Oporto than Glasgow).

I believe you could break your top 10 into numerous categories - success, success in comparison to population (England have to win the European cup 11 times in comparison to Scotland's 1 etc.,), size of support, size of support in comparison to population.

Re: Top 10 European Leagues
Author: keir
Date: 09-11-2005, 18:58
Sorry, this is completely off topic: but I went to the first topic I could find. Why is there now advertising on the website? It seems a shame that even this rather obscure website, no offense to any users of which I am one too, has succumbed to the plague of Google adwords?

Re: Top 10 European Leagues
Author: Giuseppe
Date: 09-11-2005, 21:56
Can anyone help me with attendances for leagueas that I didn't cover in my table?
This is another table with the top 20 clubs in terms of averege attendance:
1. BV 09 Borussia Dortmund 77.294 GER
2. FC Barcelona 73.357 ESP
3. Real Madrid CF 71.934 ESP
4. Manchester United 67.748 ENG
5. AC Milan 1899 63.595 ITA
6. FC Schalke 04 61.341 GER
7. Celtic 57.943 SCO
8. Internazionale FC 1908 57.295 ITA
9. FC Bayern München 53.294 GER
10.Olympique de Marseille 52.996 FRA
11.Newcastle United 51.844 ENG
12.AS Roma 49.631 ITA
13.VfL Borussia Mönchengladbach 49.183 GER
14.Hamburger SV 48.825 GER
15.Rangers 48.676 SCO
16.Ajax 48.571 NED
17.Hertha BSC Berlin 48.486 GER
18.Manchester City 45.192 ENG
19.Liverpool 42.587 ENG
20.Club Atlético de Madrid 42.579 ESP

So we have 6 clubs from Germany, 4 from England, 3 from Italy and Spain, 2 from Scotland, 1 from France and The Netherlands

Re: Top 10 European Leagues
Author: ralfinho
Date: 10-11-2005, 01:31
keir,
look here.

Re: Top 10 European Leagues
Author: me_torq792
Date: 10-11-2005, 04:52
Also consider the 2nd division legues from Spain, England and Italy. Any of these leagues may be comparable with the top 15ish.

Re: Top 10 European Leagues
Author: exile
Date: 10-11-2005, 12:53
The highest attendance for a European tie is 136,505,
Celtic v Leeds, Hampden Park, Glasgow, 15th April 1970.

Celtic's win over Leeds was arguably the biggest boost that Scottish club football ever had, given that it was over a team universally regarded as the best in England (even though they failed to win the League that season). English fans and media had seen the 1967 European Cup win as a fluke, with Celtic having an easy draw and facing an Internazionale team without Suarez and overcomitted to defence. Of course AFTER Celtic beat Leeds the excuses came thick abd fast - Leeds had too many games, had a Cup Final and a replay to play in between the two legs of the Celtic tie, and so on. But it was hard to deny that Celtic had played Leeds off the park for the majority of the 180 minutes. The Leeds team itself had a number of Scottish players. How times have changed - it would be difficult now to assemble 11 Scottish players from the top teams in England and Scotland.

The attendance for the 1960 Final at Hampden was 127,000.

The Bernabeu occasionally had crowds of 125,000, eg in the 1957
Final.

I think Dynamo Kiev have had crowds of 100,000, and a few Wembley finals were watched by 100,000 - any others with six-figure attendances?

Re: Top 10 European Leagues
Author: Giuseppe
Date: 10-11-2005, 13:59
Edited by: Giuseppe
at: 10-11-2005, 14:03
1956-1957 ECC Final: Real Madrid - Fiorentina: 120.000 (venue - Madrid, Santiago Bernabeu)
1959-1960 ECC Final: Real Madrid - Eintracht Frankfurt: 127.621 (venue - Glasgow, Hampden Park)
1981-1982 CWC Final: CF Barcelona - Standard Liege: 110.000 (venue - Barcelona, Camp Nou)
1988-1989 ECC Final: AC Milan - Steaua Bucuresti: 100.000 (venue - Barcelona, Camp Nou)

But the highest ever attendance for a football match is 185.000 (205.000 unofficial) at the 1950 World Cup Final, played between Uruguay and Brazil at Maracana (Rio de Janeiro).

Re: Top 10 European Leagues
Author: Giuseppe
Date: 10-11-2005, 14:23
This is the averege attendance for some of the important lower divisions in Europe:
1. English Championship League - 17.410 (Leeds United 29.207; Sunderland - 47.350)
2. German 2. Bundesliga - 13.458 (1. FC Köln - 38.188; 1. FC Köln - 50.000)
3. English League One - 7.738 (Sheffield Wednesday - 23.100; Sheffield Wednesday - 28.798)
4. Spanish Segunda Division A - 7.533 (Cádiz CF - 15.319; RCD Celta de Vigo - 28.000)
5. Italian Serie B - 6.867 (Genoa C & FC 1893 - 21.449; Genoa C & FC 1893 - 33.951)
6. French Ligue 2 - 6.588 (AS Nancy-Lorraine - 12.081; CS Sedan-Ardennes - 18.628)
7. Russian Pervaya Liga - 5.130 (FK Tom' Tomsk - 10.129; FK Anzhi Makhachkala - 16.500)
8. English League Two - 4.502 (Swansea City - 8.458; Southend United - 11.735)

Re: Top 10 European Leagues
Author: Giuseppe
Date: 10-11-2005, 15:47
This is a table based on the European trophies each country has won over time (4 points for ECC/UCL, 2 points for UEFA/CWC, 1 point for European Supercup/Intercontinental Cup).
1. Italy - 89p
2. Engalnd - 84p
3. Spain - 81p
4. Germany - 47p
5. Netherlands - 40p
6. Portugal - 23p
7. Belgium - 11p
8. Scotland - 9p
9. France - 6p
10. Romania - 5p
...... Serbia-Montenegro
...... Ukraine
13. Sweden - 4
14. Turkey - 3
15. Croatia - 2
...... East Germany
...... Georgia
...... Hungary
...... Russia
...... Slovakia

Re: Top 10 European Leagues
Author: Gauss
Date: 10-11-2005, 17:29
Edited by: Gauss
at: 10-11-2005, 17:30
If you mention the attendance in english League Two then you should also mention german Regionalliga Nord: 4.504 (FC St. Pauli 16.134; Fortuna Duesseldorf 38.123)

Re: Top 10 European Leagues
Author: Giuseppe
Date: 10-11-2005, 17:44
@Gauss - consider the German Regionalliga Nord added; I didn't include the German regional divisions because I only had an overall averege attendance for them and this averege was a lot lower than that of English League Two.

1. English Championship League - 17.410 (Leeds United 29.207; Sunderland - 47.350)
2. German 2. Bundesliga - 13.458 (1. FC Köln - 38.188; 1. FC Köln - 50.000)
3. English League One - 7.738 (Sheffield Wednesday - 23.100; Sheffield Wednesday - 28.798)
4. Spanish Segunda Division A - 7.533 (Cádiz CF - 15.319; RCD Celta de Vigo - 28.000)
5. Italian Serie B - 6.867 (Genoa C & FC 1893 - 21.449; Genoa C & FC 1893 - 33.951)
6. French Ligue 2 - 6.588 (AS Nancy-Lorraine - 12.081; CS Sedan-Ardennes - 18.628)
7. Russian Pervaya Liga - 5.130 (FK Tom' Tomsk - 10.129; FK Anzhi Makhachkala - 16.500)
8. German Regionalliga Nord: 4.504 (FC St. Pauli - 16.134; Fortuna Duesseldorf - 38.123)
9. English League Two - 4.502 (Swansea City - 8.458; Southend United - 11.735)

Re: Top 10 European Leagues
Author: Gauss
Date: 10-11-2005, 18:54
Giuseppe, yes, it's right, attendances in the south division are much lower than in the north, about half.