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Author: michelz
Date: 11-11-2005, 11:12

Hi all!

Do you think Holland can beat Portugal this season in the game about the 6th place????? The difference is 3,7 point right now but Holland has one club more in the European leagues and they are performing much better then the portugeus ones:

AJAX and PSV are both in 2nd place in ChampionsLeugues poules while Porto and Benfica are both last.

In UEFA cup HEERENVEEN amd AZ are both in the top 3 of their poules while Vitória Guimarăes is last.

So maybe Holland will have 4 clubs in the next round of UEFA and Champions Leugue while all Portugese clubs may be eliminated.

What do you think: Can Holland win 3,7 point on Portugal this year????

Re: Can Holland beat Portugal????
Author: Forza-AZ Date: 11-11-2005, 11:22	If all 3 Portuguese teams will be eliminated in the groupstage, then the Netherlands might catch them. When 1 or more Portuguese teams will still be in UEFA-cup/CL I think it won't be possible to catch them.

Author: Ricardo
Date: 11-11-2005, 15:45

Ajax may become second in their CL-pool, but will be beaten immediatly afterwards as I think they will be (one fo the) weakest teams that qualify. I am still doubtfull about PSV. On the other hand: if PSV makes it to the next CL-round, they have proven to be consistently good. if they don't make it, I hope they at least make it to the UC.

Make up 3.7? thats 22 points
Ajax:2 matches in CL(2p) + 1 bonus + 1 draw: 4p (expected scenario)
PSV:2 matches in CL(2p) + 1 bonus + 2 +1 bonus +1:7 (positive scenario)
AZ:3 matches UC(4p) + 3 + 2 + 1 bonus + 1:10p (positive scenario)
Heerenveen:2 matches(2p) + 2:4p (expected scenario)

This is a total 25 points. So then Benfica, Porto and Guimaraes will have to get a maximum of 3 points together, which will cause them all to be last in their pool and eliminated.
The Dutch scenarion is not impossible, but the Portuguese is.
Porto will be second in the pool(maybe that is positive, like Ajax one of the weaker teams in the CL, though I think they will only get better)
Benfica is diffcult to say, the group is too open, and I haeve not seen them to judge them.
Guimaraes might indeed be eliminated.

Author: Forza-AZ
Date: 11-11-2005, 16:06
Edited by: Forza-AZ
at: 11-11-2005, 16:08

In fact the Netherlands have to make up 23 points (3,7 times 6 is a little more than 22, so 22 isn't enough).
In your scenario the 3 Portuguese teams only may collect 2 points, so it's highly unlikely. That's why I said that the Netherlands only can reach Portugal, when all 3 Portuguese teams will be completely eliminated after the group stage.

So first let's see what happenes in the group. In the beginning of the season I thought it really would be impossible to reach Portugal, but there is a small hope now, that it might be possible.
So let's hope the Dutch coaches in Portugal can do us a favor by losing all their matches in the CL.

Re: Can Holland beat Portugal????
Author: Alexfriend Date: 15-11-2005, 06:03	Keep dreaming,my friends. Even the dutch coatchs could save you! Twenty three more points than the portuguese teams is very hard to get. Let?s wait.

Re: Can Holland beat Portugal????
Author: Ricardo Date: 15-11-2005, 09:09	Agree. Maybe next year: Holland is 4.5 points behind - I guess not either. The year after then: Holland is 0.083 ahead - that must be enough to hold on for the next 2.5 years!

Author: porto-1978
Date: 17-11-2005, 12:23

I still think that will not happen. But the stupid loss of Sporting with Halmstads opened the way to it! Braga was a bit unlucky to had so many injuries in the attack that they didn?t maneged to win to Red Star.
Guimarăes was robbed in Russia, it?s a fact, and it?s with no points, but i still believe they can win to Bolton and Besiktas.
Porto was very bad and i?m disapointed with the coach in CL. But still believe they can be 2nd or 3rd at least.
Benfica had the bird in its hand and now it?s in dificult position. Everything can happen.
The 3rd place (at least) would be great for the 3 portuguese teams in competition. Otherwise the portuguese mark this season will be bad. How good will be the dutch? Not good enough to catch Portugal this season. But the world doesn?t end in the summer! So better for portuguese teams to collect the more points they can. Maybe not the best time to have dutch coaches!

Re: Can Holland beat Portugal????
Author: Esbanjador Date: 20-11-2005, 14:16	I hope not! :P

Re: Can Holland beat Portugal????
Author: michelz Date: 16-12-2005, 10:57	Well, after the first season half the difference is 2,6 point with 4 Dutch clubs (ajax, psv, heerenveen, az) still participating and 1 portugese one (benfica). The 4 dutch teams must get 15,5 points more then benfica. So 4 point a team will be sufficient to get holland on the 6th place. Is this possible????

Re: Can Holland beat Portugal????
Author: bert.kassies Date: 16-12-2005, 11:07	Only in theory.

Re: Can Holland beat Portugal????
Author: Ricardo Date: 16-12-2005, 14:18	They should have gotten a better draw then! PSV 1 point against Lyon, Ajax 0 against Inter, Heerenveen 1 against Steaua and AZ 2 against Betis With a whole lot of luck 1 team will be left after the next round.

Author: Joost
Date: 16-12-2005, 14:42

Indeed, impossible imo. But "1 team trough with a whole lot of luck" is too negative.
AZ has at least a 50% chance.

PSV is doing badly in away-games but gets some players available like Kone (very important). And ok Lyon is one of Europe's strongest teams (stronger than Real or Arsenal etc.) but PSV is tough and nasty. It's by no means a walk-over. A new Lyon-loss would be traumatic for them I guess...

Heerenveen is doing bad and with Steaua being a good team they will be 95% out with 0-1 point (I think 1).

ajax is weak. They do have some good and some decent players but lack quality on key positions (wings, striker etc.) + they do not have confidence or playing in the same line-up (change after change).

Author: asgar
Date: 16-12-2005, 20:01

No they can't but these post are way to negative.

Psv did it last year and they can do it again, they don't loose mutch games . So it will be close .Whit Kone they can always score something they could not do before . 2 points

Ajax in bad shape , but in europe they can grow as always I give them a good change at beating inter . 2 points

AZ , betis , AZ is more likly to win than betis . They will be in next round no luck needed. 3 points

Heerenveen don't know is steau better than Dinamo ? If not Heerenveen will move on . Heerenveen is a all or nothing team at home they are verry strong .And this year they learned to play 0-0 away so i give them a good change . 2 points

Ajax moves on (psv not )
AZ + Heerenveen move on

Than it be Heerenveen -AZ so 4 point for sure

AJax 2 points but out

Heerenveen moves on. 1 points out

16 points no they won't make it lol

Re: Can Holland beat Portugal????
Author: executor Date: 16-12-2005, 20:32	This is turning into a SF section. You think Heerenveen will eliminated Steaua?? COME ON!! BE SERIOUS!! Anyone who has at least a game of the two teams will assure you that Steaua will thrash Heerenveen. If (and I emphasize IF) Heerenveen gets a point that would be a big surprise.

Re: Can Holland beat Portugal????
Author: asgar Date: 17-12-2005, 01:29	Lol learn the facts last year they were this far , this year they held 0-0 against dinamo who is top of steau , in away game. also at home Heerenveen scores atleast 8 times better results than away. Last year Heerenveen was this far , and there team this year is better than last years . If they can keep there striker , in winter than i am sure they will winn. Talk to ya afther the match !

Author: executor
Date: 17-12-2005, 10:10

Just a small fact: last year, yes, Heerenveen reached this phase only to lose with a double defeat against Newcastle, while Steaua eliminated Valencia (you know, that team that was both the UEFA Cup holder and Spanish champion at the same time). This year apart from that Rosenborg incident (from which they learned the lesson) Steaua is undefeated away and scored at least 3 goals at home, no matter the opponent. And don't compare with Dinamo, they play dissapointing in European matches (lost all their away matches)

But it's a deal: we'll talk after the match!

Re: country ranking - a question
Author: aetius Date: 22-12-2005, 16:44	don't worry , except Herenveen all oranje teams will pass into next stage ( that means 3 ). in this case 1 coef point is recovered. after that ...only hope.

Re: Can Holland beat Portugal????
Author: michelz Date: 23-12-2005, 10:24	Well,..... I think it's impossible that both Ajax and PSV will pass the next Champions League round. I think at least one of them will be eliminated. But I think Benfica will be out also with 1 or 0 points.