Forum

xml	No replies possible in the archive

Seeding for Uefa cup...
Author: clash Date: 27-05-2006, 13:41	OFK Belgrade Srb 6.600 Hajduk Kula Srb 6.600 How can OFK Beograd and Hajduk have the same coefficient...Last year we've won 1 point in the match against Loko Plovdiv...Hajduk had never participated in any(only Intertoto) European cup...and when will be provided complet list of teams and their standings...

Re: Seeding for Uefa cup...
Author: Nick Date: 27-05-2006, 13:47	clash: Matches in the qualifying rounds do not count for the individual club coefficient! OFK played against Loko Pl in the second qualifying round and was eliminated. This means that they only have 33% of the national coefficient of Serbia. Same goes for Loko Plovdiv btw because they lost both R1 matches against Bolton, so they still don't have their own club coefficient.

Re: Seeding for Uefa cup...
Author: clash Date: 27-05-2006, 13:55	I cant belive... Thanks mate...

Re: Seeding for Uefa cup...
Author: ignjat63 Date: 28-05-2006, 00:14	"Matches in the qualifying rounds do not count for the individual club coefficient! " One of the reasons many people on this forum find seeding system fair Sorry, guys, could not help it...

Re: Seeding for Uefa cup...
Author: Nick Date: 28-05-2006, 06:39	ignjat: I would personally love it if the QR matches would count for the club coefficient. It would benefit greatly my favourite club CSKA Sofia, because we have a perfect record in QR for the last 5 years and would be seeded for sure.

Author: bert.kassies
Date: 28-05-2006, 08:00

I've never met anyone who was seriously against using the results of QR matches for the team coefficients. Many would favor to use the same amount as is being used for the country coefficients: 50% of the points for non-qualifying matches.

It would even simplify the calculation. At least when you calculate from a database of match results. Perhaps UEFA is still using Excel sheets with the results of the past four years only available in accumulated columns. And then of coarse it is a lot of work to recompute these accumulated results. But nah, I really don't know why they didn't change this already.

Author: ignjat63
Date: 28-05-2006, 12:52
Edited by: ignjat63
at: 28-05-2006, 12:55

It is really not my intention to prolong discussion about fairness of the seeding system so you can all breathe a deep sigh of relief. I just wanted to say that as long as all participating teams' results were not counted for team coefficient then in no way can the ranking of teams be fair (and therefore seeding), whatever the definition of "fair" is. Whatever other positive things one can say for the good sides of seeding this alone is enough for me to think it unfair.

Re: Seeding for Uefa cup...
Author: maranton Date: 28-05-2006, 13:48	Ignat63 do you consider "fair" in the northern group teams with 1.7 to be seeded and in the souther teams with 3.355 to be unseeded?

Author: Nick
Date: 28-05-2006, 14:03
Edited by: Nick
at: 28-05-2006, 14:04

Maranton: The whole regional grouping is not very fair but on the other hand it has it's financial reasons. I don't believe that clubs like NK Orasje can really afford a trip to Iceland. The SM group in QR1 will be fun this year. You have for now 3 bulgarian and 2 romanian seeded teams. I can bet with you than the coefficient of Rapid, Litex and CSKA is higher than the total coefficient of all teams (both seeded and unseeded) in the Northern group. Some of the unseeded teams will have a really hard time.

Re: Seeding for Uefa cup...
Author: ignjat63 Date: 28-05-2006, 14:07	maranton (and possibly others) after so much discussion about the subject I think there is no need to prolong it. At least for me. We all made our point in other (numerous) topics.

Author: ferdi
Date: 29-05-2006, 12:40

bert.kassies wrote

{i>I've never met anyone who was seriously against using the results of QR matches for the team coefficients. Many would favor to use the same amount as is being used for the country coefficients: 50% of the points for non-qualifying matches.{/i>

But then bonus points would have to be given to the teams which are not allowed to play qualification rounds, 1.5 points per round. Therefore I don't think that this would be a good idea.

maranton wrote:

{i>do you consider "fair" in the northern group teams with 1.7 to be seeded and in the souther teams with 3.355 to be unseeded?{/i>

Remember that 1.7 is as good as zero, and 3.555 is as well as good as zero. Maybe it would be best to treat all teams with a coeff. of less than 20.000 equally as unseeded in all rounds, to make clear that seeding was not made to protect a 3.555-club against a 1.7-club.

Re: Seeding for Uefa cup...
Author: Nick Date: 29-05-2006, 12:55	ferdi: But then againt you would have only 5-6 seeded teams in QR1 and maybe 15 in QR2

Re: Seeding for Uefa cup...
Author: executor Date: 29-05-2006, 12:58	The idea that is also in other topics (and I'm totally for it): make a list with all the teams (just like in UC R1) and THEN distribute them according to geographic criteria. I don't know why UEFA uses 2 different methods for the same outcome: 1 in QR, 1 in R1.

Re: Seeding for Uefa cup...
Author: Nick Date: 29-05-2006, 13:02	executor: When this regional thing was introduced the only clubs that had a benefit from it were from....Sweden. Now look at the UEFA president and think again

Re: Seeding for Uefa cup...
Author: ferdi Date: 29-05-2006, 13:06	Nick wrote: {i>But then againt you would have only 5-6 seeded teams in QR1 and maybe 15 in QR2{/i> Yes, it would mean that those teams would each get an opponent with a coef. of 20 or less, from the unseeded pot. For the remaining unseeded teams it would be as a free draw.

Re: Seeding for Uefa cup...
Author: dawgs Date: 30-05-2006, 09:24	Well, in previous years the UCRs seeded treshold did differ b/w regions, but this year (as per Ricardo's projections) the contrasts b/w Central+South (especially) and North are very striking indeed. Maybe UEFA will step in and adjust them a bit...

Re: Seeding for Uefa cup...
Author: panda Date: 30-05-2006, 12:28	Has anyone tried recomputing (even for 1 season) with the QR points counting towards the team co-eff to see how different the results are?