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Watch the WC while at work
Author: BalkanTourist Date: 26-06-2006, 21:24	Did you guys know that you can watch the games live on www.espn360.com

Author: Lupta_Steaua
Date: 19-07-2006, 04:34

I was trying to find a topic which would be apropriate.

I thought BalcanTourist could also explain

I have been in the US for a week now. All I saw here are propagandisc news, which remind me more of Soviet time, than evan the politically influenced TV Molodova. Just wondering, why can they dictate whom we attack?

Getting back to sports, because you can not go back to football here (unless it is amererican), I just have to tell you what are the news here about the World Cup - It was extreamly great, but had one problem - prostitution!!!

Now, how does that come up in the picture? I saw diving, I saw faults, I saw atacks. Did I miss sometning?

I believe that CONMEBOL should have to a maximum two teams - Mexico and who ever comes out of qualification

Author: BalkanTourist
Date: 19-07-2006, 08:10

I've given up on getting reliable not biased news from TV. Fox is the worst and CNN is better, but not that much. There is a channel called ETV and it is operated by each state, so the programming varies, but most broadcast BBC's news in the morning and late night. BBC is the greatest, but it has just started making its way through cable stations around the country. I read somewhere it would be nationally broadcast on cable TV. It might not be on basic cable though.
For years it has been really bad for me when it comes down to sports. I've given up on so many of my previous interests. It is sad but I don't watch tennis anymore - only the French, British and U.S. open are broadcasted with heavily concentration on American players.
Interest in volleyball is non-existant. Same for basketball outside of the NBA. You cannot watch either volleyball's nor basketball's WC here. Can't watch WC Track and Field either. No biathlon, no swimming, no F1.
Lately you can get a channel called Fox Soccer Channel, which is great if they have it in your area. Cable companies have monopoly over certain regions, so you cannot choose which cable company to subscribe to. I cannot get that channel because I have Comcast cable, but 20 miles away where Time Warner Cable Co. operates, one can get it. It is great, because they show matches from Serie A, Le Championat, Primera Division, EPL, and the Bundesliga. Also one can see games from Argentina and Brazil, and most importantly from UEFA Cup. FSC also shows WC qualifiers. I've seen Romania and Nederlands, and Bulgaria and Sweden. They even broadcast directly from SKY Sports all through the night.
ESPN and ESPN2 suck. They show domino's WC, bowling, poker or fishing, all day. If they don't then they have those boring talk shows... They do have the rights for the CL, but it irritates me how they have favorite teams and are so predictable. If Real Madrid is playing, they'll almost always show them, if not it will be Manchester United. Also those games are on Tuesday and Wednesday at 2:30 in the afternoon and it is very inconvenient if you have to work those days.
Everything is presented with "America is the best" propaganda. Nothing is objective. Americans work really hard, many have 2 jobs, some have 3 just so they can make ends need. They are constantly repeated that they live in the best country of the world. That they need to go no where else, and shouldn't care about what's happening in the outside world. They lose interest really quick when they are not champions in something. Last Winter Olympics were a disapointment. Some are even questioning why have the Olympics if ratings are down (they were down because the U.S. wasn't doing well). They like to call the NBA champs or the Baseball champs - World Champions

I don't really want to even start talking about American sports and how they kept appologizing on ABC when the World Cup final went to PKs and they had to delay showing some golf tournament....

Author: panda
Date: 19-07-2006, 12:36

I guess you will find millions of Europeans (including me) who dislike the 'USA is the best' attitude to everything, including war.
Most non-Russians dislike Putin, but when he said in front of Bush, 'Democracy? I hope not the way they have it in Iraq,' I think everyone in Europe cheered.

WC and prostitution? What I read was that prostitutes were expecting to have a big rise in business, with all the people coming over , but instead, maybe because so much was put on for fans, football won, and business for prostitution was very poor.

Author: Lyonnais
Date: 19-07-2006, 12:54
Edited by: Lyonnais
at: 19-07-2006, 12:55

Balkan Tourist, as a previous resident of the US, I agree with your general comments about sport broadcast in the US (although I didn't find them too chauvinist during the WC).

However, it seems to me fair to say that this situation (focus on national champions and chauvinism) happen in every country.
Having lived myseelf in Sweden, in London and in NYC, I can witness that this was the same. Medias focus on national champions and tend to be chauvinist.
I am almost sure that this is true for all the other countries too.

Otherwise, Lupta_Steaua, the US belong to CONCACAF, not to CONMEBOL (South America) and the results of the CONCACAF teams are not that bad (as good as Africa for example).

Re: Watch the WC while at work
Author: panda Date: 19-07-2006, 13:01	Sports chauvinism is certainly true in British media, but plenty of people complain that the commentators are too chauvinistic and pro-British.

Author: Lyonnais
Date: 19-07-2006, 13:13
Edited by: Lyonnais
at: 19-07-2006, 13:18

My personal feeling is that French media become more and more chauvinist, at least more and more focused on French players only which becomes annoying at last.

I have a lot of friends that cannot stand anymore Arsenal for example, because they are simply fed up that some media (namely TF1) don't stop speaking about Henry for example. You can be happy to see that he's succeeding well in Arsenal, but this does not mean that you just want to hear about Henry and Arsenal all the time.

Coming back to the UK, most people ask you which team you support. I found funny to notice that most of them just meant which team in the Premiership you support. They simply don't care to know if as a Frenchman you support Lyon or Monaco or whoever, they just want to know if you support Arsenal rather than Chelsea or Liverpool.

Re: Watch the WC while at work
Author: Giuseppe Date: 19-07-2006, 13:18	Concentrating on national champions is something that can be found pretty much anywhere; also chauvinism and nationalism are pretty common things, but I don't think there are many nations as arrogant, ignorant and self-centered as the Americans. Personally I love to see USA and their athletes crash and burn in sport competitions :D

Re: Watch the WC while at work
Author: badgerboy Date: 19-07-2006, 13:27	Lyonnais It's funny you should say that. I've travelled a bit outside Europe and I often ask local people which football team they support. Nearly always they reply with a European team and are surprised when I say I want to know which local team they support.

Re: Watch the WC while at work
Author: Giuseppe Date: 19-07-2006, 13:42	@Lyonnais - intersting thing about Arsenal. A few years ago when Galatasaray had many Romanians, the TV channel that has rights for UCL kept broadcasting their matches regardles if the match was interesting or not. It was really annoying for me to see them on TV every week.

Author: executor
Date: 19-07-2006, 13:46

The Americans are actually destroying themselves. When you choose to ignore the rest of the world, how on Earth do you expect to be loved? Everyone knows that the most annoyning person is the one that doesn't care about anything that isn't in their own micro-Universe. Why did the Americans choose to do that? Why is ignorance so high-valued?

I think that right now the best image of the American society is represented by Paris Hilton. This annoying and spoiled little b**** answered, when asked if a certain story about her appeared in the UK, "No, it was in London". When told that London is in the UK, she just rolled her eyes and said: "Whateveeeer".

Unfortunately there's no way this can be fixed. Old habits die hard.

Re: Watch the WC while at work
Author: Giuseppe Date: 19-07-2006, 14:02	How about this: Lance Armstrong - 7 times winner of Tour de France (cycling) - was invited to a Leno show. Leno said one time something like this: 'If the guys ranked 2-5th were all doped, then Armstrong really has to be extraordinary'. As if the whole world doesn't know his body was pumped full of dopants...

Author: levski.bg
Date: 19-07-2006, 15:02

Ignore everything else ? Who... ? French with "food for oil" program ?

Executor, yourself like romanian and I like bulgarian must know better, how "easy" can anyone beat totalitarism with their own people hands, so I support US, no matter reasons, comercial or not.

If we have DS agency and you was with Securitate ..imagine what was in Iraq with 9 agencys...

In fact, why they was in Somalia few years ago ? (If we think, they are in Iraq for the oil).

I dont want to sound like brainwash supporter, but I think they have all the right to call NBA "World Championship". And why not NHL...

In fact, they show much progres in football, and if they continue to work like that, I wont suprise to see USA like world champions, finalist or semifinalist.

Author: Giuseppe
Date: 19-07-2006, 15:10
Edited by: Giuseppe
at: 19-07-2006, 15:16

Jeez, sorry mate, but you do sound 'brainwashed'

I have nothing to thank for to the Americans. I don't want to go into politics, but the Americans don't care about 'freedom', 'democracy' unless they have something to gain from it.
And why should they call NBA or NHL world championship? the only world chamionship is the one involving national teams and they haven't been winning any of those lately.
And have you heard of the great country of Liberia, a country created by the Americans to dump their problems in at the end of the 19th century? Why don't they return in force to reinstate democracy there, as it would surely cost less than invading Irak?

Author: levski.bg
Date: 19-07-2006, 15:47
Edited by: levski.bg
at: 19-07-2006, 15:51

You maybe want some respect ? and I agree with you.

There must be world regulation, but what happen if there is world regulation, but Russia and China votes everytime with NO to every american (and not only, I should say western) proposal, just for show that their are "Great Power" in the world, and they voice is listen.

Maybe is not a good idea to continue with this, but you should thanks to americans for what they build like alternative to communism. That is my point, you have right to have your own. And you have that right, because of americans too, trust me or not.

In fact, no one can shoot you for that, its not like case with iraq people with different opinion in Iraq with Sadam.

P.S.

All (or big majority) of the iraq people in here, supports US actions there. That can ring any bell, but I respect you, and no offence of course.

Take care.

ps.2

Ups I almost forget but, no matter they lost last olympic and world championship, they are still the best basketball players in the world.

They just dont show all the best and everyone who watch the basket will agree with that.

They have a squad and players who can beat anyone, including the great team of Jugoslavia on the late 80ts ..

Author: apw
Date: 19-07-2006, 15:49

Discussing how America view sports or how they operate within the world itsn't going to change anything, at the end of the day they are always going to see " Soccer " as a game for Women and Children and see The Baseball Champions as World Champions etc
It was funny when they introduced Baseball to the Olympic games and lost, but then coming from England we should know that inventing a game doesn't mean you have a right to be the best, though i don't think the English press have been told that.

Having said that i still find America a great place for holidays and great value too with the current exchange rate !
But i agree i couldn't live there, i spent 3 months in 1986 in Los Angeles and considered staying but once the Football Season starting it drove me mad and that was in the pre Internet days so i came home.
A good friend of mine who now lives in Texas summed it up he said you have to adapt to American sports or be an outcast, so he now watches The Cowboys and The Texas Rangers regulary whilst closeting himself with his computer to watch Crystal Palace clips on the net, not that anyone there would even know who or what Crystal Palace are.

It's always said The English are insular but we are nothing compared to Ameriacans

Author: Lyonnais
Date: 19-07-2006, 15:52

I am not sure that this forum was designed to discuss the American foreign policy. .)

Just react to this:

I think that right now the best image of the American society is represented by Paris Hilton

This is for sure the nastiest comment I have never read about the Americans for a long time

Please trust me, and this is a Frenchman who speaks here (i guess that i am obviously supposed to be a proud Anti-American guy), imho, most Americans, if not all, are much more interesting than Paris Hilton.

Author: badgerboy
Date: 19-07-2006, 15:56
Edited by: badgerboy
at: 19-07-2006, 16:01

Giuseppe

Off topic I know but Liberia does now have a democratically elected government and relative peace. Must be because the Americans didn't invade!

I remember being quite appalled when I read a potted history of Liberia in a chapter in the excellent "The Shadow of the Sun: My African Life" by Ryszard Kapuscinski. Liberia was a country created by freed slaves from America and the first thing they did was to enslave the local indigenous population! A fairly depressing indictment on human nature.

Edit - Levskibg - just to answer your point about Sports World Championships. It's fairly irrelevant to me what the Americans call their sports competitions as I dislike pretty much all of them (the American sports that is - not the Americans). But just because they have the best players in a sport doesn't mean they should call their national league the "World" Championships. Otherwise maybe we should have an argument between Italy and Spain as to who gets to rename their top league the "World League" for next season. After all Italy are World Champions and Spanish Clubs hold both European trophies?

Author: levski.bg
Date: 19-07-2006, 16:11
Edited by: levski.bg
at: 19-07-2006, 16:23

I agree with all of you.

Controversially, the NBA Finals are often regarded by league officials and U.S. media as a "World Championship" implying that no basketball team in the world could compete with NBA Finalists.

The winner of the NBA Finals is presented the "Larry O'Brien Championship Trophy" (not World Championship Trophy) at the conclusion of the finals and maybe that excuse them.

In fact, there is much fans/media/officials from Real Madrid who also say they are "world best", but that not make them a bad or maybe arogant people.

Its just a way of thinking, and Real Madrid like NBA teams/media have their logical base/paths to say that.

Author: Edgar
Date: 19-07-2006, 16:32

apw, it's not really that extreme. My brother-in-law lives and works in the US (California to be more precise) and ignores all those American Sports. He watches TVR International to catch the matches of the Romanian teams. He's lucky because there's a big Romanian community in LA so there are a lot of football fans.
If any of you are members of BigSoccer (I know Forza and spoonman are) you know how ignorant some of the American football (soccer) fans can be. But I won't go into that.

Author: Lyonnais
Date: 19-07-2006, 19:55

I lived some few years in NY and I never got any interest in American sports. I never watched the Super-Bowl for example and any "american football games" (although all my American colleagues and friends every year convinced me to give money for their numerous bets).

I had Fox Soccer at home and as mentioned by BalkanTourist, these 2 channels (including the spanish-speaking one) are simply great channels and I had no time to really get an interest in American sports (including basketball or hockey that are popular in Europe).

The only thing that interested me was the famous Yankees-Red Sox game in 2004 in base-ball. A huge game in American sport history. I watched all the 7 games of the series (out of which 2 of them lasted more than 5 hours - record in play-offs) and that was OK.

The main issue I had with American sports is their competition format. Either the regular season doesn't mean anything (typically like in the MLS as 8 out the 12 teams advance to the play-offs) or it is pretty confusing. In American football, the 32 teams play 16 games only and then only the best by conference advance to play-offs whereas they didn't all play against each other, although the number of teams per conference is different, etc. This is pretty confusing for an European used to have very clear and fair competitions.

Author: apw
Date: 19-07-2006, 20:37

Edgar :

Sorry for being naive but what did i say that was extreme ?
I never disrected America for example but to the contarary i said it is a great place to visit, i have been many times and will continue to do so, i have no intention of discussing politics on this forum, if people wish to do that there are many places on the net to do so.

All i said is that i decided against living long term in California because although the lifestyle was great i really missed Football ( i was in my twenties at the time) and that is why i came home, maybe in hindsight i was wrong i may have had a better life who knows ? but i made my choice.
My friend on the other hand settled in Dallas after a 3 year work placement and became " Americanised " in a sporting term, he now can talk franchises, Rosters, MVP's etc with all his work colleagues, he also has the luxury of staying in touch with Crystal Palace through the internet, a luxury i didn't have in 1986.

Author: panda
Date: 20-07-2006, 11:58

@lyonnais

I agree- I never understood the system where you play some teams, not others.

But I like American football - it's a rugby-based game with lots of extra rules. It would however, fail the ignjat63 test- which is, sport must not be too much like chess i.e in American football, players come on, do their specialist thing and then go off again to be replaced.

For people who like cricket, baseball seems ridiculously simplistic. (On the other hand, for other people, cricket may just seem ridiculous).

It's also been commented, Americans don't like sports that can end in draws (but we, going towards penalty shoot-outs, may be following this idea too).

Re: Watch the WC while at work
Author: Edgar Date: 20-07-2006, 12:20	apw, I was reffering to this: "A good friend of mine who now lives in Texas summed it up he said you have to adapt to American sports or be an outcast" It's a bit extreme, don't you think? That's was your friend's choice - but you don't have to get into American sports in order to have a normal social life. As I said, a lot depends on the community you're living in.

Re: Watch the WC while at work
Author: spoonman Date: 20-07-2006, 15:32	@ Edgar: Sorry, I'm not a member of BigSoccer (don't even know what it is). Must be a namesake of mine, or you're confusing me with someone else.

Author: Lyonnais
Date: 20-07-2006, 17:37

Edgar, I have some experience of living abroad and i can tell you that being interested in domestic sports certainly cannot hurt for socialization in your new country. Sport typically is this kind of neutral discussion you can have with somebody you don't know.

This certainly doesn't mean that you will be out if you don't but your integration in the country might be longer (outside your community if you are strongly involved in a specific community).

This said, my personal feeling is that the Americans are less involved in sport than in the UK. In the US, you can find people not very interested in sport in general, whereas it's more difficult to find a British guy who has nothing to say about football.

Author: apw
Date: 20-07-2006, 17:57
Edited by: apw
at: 20-07-2006, 18:01

Edgar ;

I don't believe that my statement is extreme, what i meant or what my friend means is that he works in an office of around 100 Americans or Texans ( they are quite independent down there are class themselves Texan 1st American 2nd), if he goes into work and tries to strike up a conversation on how Crystal Palace did at the weekend no-one would be interested or even know what he was talking about, but if he goes in and talks about the "Cowboys" the " Rangers" or the ice Hockey or Basketball teams there is an instant response, so what is better not be involved in converstaion or be some sad little Brit sitting in the corner reading the English press online.
Also by intergrating into American mainstream sport he & his family have a great social scene going to sports events and be involved in functions locally etc.
He still retains his love of Football (soccer ) by coaching 7 - 10 year olds for a local team.

Also what is wrong with intergrating into the culture you live it is not as though you have to reject your own historical background, Too many nationalities move abroad for a better life and then just blend into an ethnic community which in turn can lead to ethnic / Racist tensions.
As the old saying goes " when in rome "

So no i don't think my statement was extreme perhaps i never explained it too well !

Re: Watch the WC while at work
Author: panda Date: 20-07-2006, 20:23	In general, this concept (cultural integration) + this forum makes the conversation gravitate towards specific example of North America. In most of world (maybe less in Indian sub-continent), football is ALREADY the thing one will have in common with a stranger of another country, at least a male stranger.

Re: Watch the WC while at work
Author: apw Date: 21-07-2006, 00:20	Panda is spot on, and let's be honest men everywhere will always find a common bond in sport, so wherever you may be take an interest in the ties that bind