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Author: iwan
Date: 23-10-2006, 20:53
Edited by: iwan
at: 24-10-2006, 23:13

Platini don't wanne have more than 3 teams
from one country in the Champions League.
Overgame and Ricardo had suggested 2.

I've my doubt's about that!!

I prefair in Championsleague:
The nrs-1 to -8 each 4 teams.
The nrs-9 to -15 each 3 teams.
The nrs-16 to -23 each 2 teams.
The nrs-24 to -49 each 1 team.
And a holder.

Totally 96 teams.
When the holder qualifies in the national
league than the nr-24 receives one spot more.

And in the UEFA-cup:
The nrs-1 to -42 each 2 teams.
The nrs-43 to -53 each 1 team.
And a holder.

Totally 96 teams too.
When the holder qualifies in the national
league the nr-43 receives one spot more.

But premerly round don't has to be nessissary
any more every-one can play pool-matches!!!

In both cups in the 1st round 16 pools of six.
Eveybody plays halve a competition.
In the CL,all the 49 champions (exept the
lowest-ranked one) play 3 matches at home and 2 away
and the resting 48 teams 2 at home and 3 away.

The tournement is called CHAMPIONS LEAGUE and the
champion-ship in every country(exapt the lowest ranked)
can be honnored with one home match more than
the resting countries!!

In the UC the 53 cupwinners (exept the 5 lowest ranked)
will play 3 home and 2 away-matches and the rest 2
at home and 3 away. The most cupwinners will have
one home match more too!!

In both cups the best 2 off each pool goes
in the the play-offs, in the play-offs every-round
people play a home- and an away-match, exapt the
final one match at an neutral venue.

People can do too for the nrs-3 and -4 in the
UC-GS it's game-over, but the nrs-3 and -4
in the CL can play UC.

Every team who qualifies can play poolmatches
and and totally there can be play 5 match-days
less than elsware!!

Now in champions league and UC
teams can play 19 matches
between Q1 and the final.

For teams placed for CL-Q1 who qualifies in CL-Q3
ore the CL-GS for the UC it can be 21.

But in the situation I prefair it don't will be
more than 14 matches in the UC ore 16 in the UC.

It means countries have more time for the national
leagues and national teams!!

Author: doctor
Date: 24-10-2006, 00:26

i would like only one or change the name of the league in "best teams league"(BTL) and the name of Uefa cup in Uefa League.

Real,Milan,Manchester,Liverpool,Arsenal,Inter,Roma,Bordeaux,Werder and so on are not Champions to me,maybe for u they are,for me they are only good teams

Lyon ,Chelsea,Barselona,Steaua,Levsky,Sahtior,Olympiakos,Bayern,PSV are real champions and they represent their country in CL.The rest are there only to make money for UEFA and for themselves they don`t represent anything they are not Champions , Uefa is a good cup for them.

Re: Very much better systems in Europacups!!
Author: iwan Date: 24-10-2006, 01:03	Ofcourse, Best Teams League is a better name than champions league, I've never dissagreed with that!!! But when champions off all the countries and other better teams like the nr-4 off the 8th-ranked country,the runner-up off the 22th ranked country etc can play poolmatches everybody happy!!

Author: AS
Date: 24-10-2006, 10:22

Qualification matches in CL can be see, in my opinion, from two quite different point of view: from the point of view of strong teams and from the point of view of weak teams. The former wish, I think, play few matches classified like not very interesting, before to get to first round, while the later just like play interesting matches against strong teams to enjoy themselves getting some money and to do international experience preferring playing in front of their fans in their stadium without really thinking to win and to go on. The number of total teams involved can’t increase very much. So, by these basic ideas, I can tell you a new idea for a better system.
In CL will 78 teams (number very close to actual 73) divided in 18 directly to round 1 CL group stage + 60 to qualification phase. These 60 teams are drawn by 4 pools by value: 15 teams for each pool. We can call them teams A, B, C and D. Qualification phase consist in two step: step1 a group stage of 3 matches all played in less value team stadium (D-A C-B; B-A C-D; C-A D-B). After that, first team qualified to round 1 CL group stage and 4th team out by all competitions. Step2: other two teams play a kind of return match that aggregated to the match in step1 with standard rules move the winner to round 1 CL group stage and the loser to UC. So we have a board with 48 teams in round 1 CL group stage organized in 12 groups of 4 teams each. Than, best 32 go on (all 1st + all 2nd + best 8 3td) – others go out by all competitions. Than, play out to the final. On the other hand, in UC, all association start with the same number of teams for example 4 teams each (Spain, Italy and England as well as Faroe Islands, Luxembourg and Malta – maybe exception only for Liechtenstein, Andorra and San Marino that haven’t a real domestic league) and start play off. They add the 15 CLQ loser teams immediately and when the total teams became 32 they play group stage + play off to the final. No Intertoto.
Vantages: same number of matches but more teams, no moving from a competition to the other after qualifications, weak teams have at least 3 matches all home instead of 2 (1 home + 1 away), UC became equilibrate in number of teams for all associations.

Author: iwan
Date: 24-10-2006, 18:11
Edited by: iwan
at: 25-10-2006, 12:39

Dear AS,

I can understand the headlines of
your ideas about the CL and UC.

But not exactly in the UEFA-cup.
You wanne let play 80 teams in it qualified
like the same way as now!?!? And than 16 pools
off 5 and the best 2 off each will be put
in 8 pools off 4 ?!?

And do you wanne let play in the 1st GS
(and maybe the 2nd GS too) halve a competition
ore a complete competition?!?! And in halve
a competition by 4 teams one match at a
neutral field!?!?

Now,many hours later I can understand better
what youre meaning was.

In the UC every country receives 4 teams, only
Liechtenstein,Sanmarino, Andorra and Gibraltar
each one ore zero. The nrs-3 off the CL-teams, the
holder and the members off the 4 highest ranked
countries will be directly placed for the 1st GS,
the members off the nrs-5 and -6 must play one
premerly-round play-offs and the resting teams
each two, so 80 of the 216 members reach the 1st GS.
And when the 4 earlier called countries has no members
than the teams of the nr-7 can play one QR less.

So this was your real idea AS!?!?
Maybe it was unfair off me to let give away the 2nd UC-spot
for the countries ranked 43 to -49, so it can be possible too
to create an EC-III-tournement the 6 ore 7 runners-up can
play a complete competition of 10 ore 12 in it in the entire season.
They'll receive very less prize-money and TV-rights but are
sure about 5 home-matches as compensation.

And can do the next too!!
The winner can be placed for the next season for the CL and the
nr-15 gives one spot away for that and the runner-up for the UC,
the nr-8 must give away a spot for that. When the winner and/or
runner-up qualifies in the national league than he can be
substituted by a team off the same country.

I find it a very symphatic idea off AS to give
the lower-ranked teams more home-matches in the GS's.
Example: In national cups they give in many countries
teams from lower divisions more home-matches too!!

Author: doctor
Date: 25-10-2006, 12:26

Dear iwan,
If i want to luck at Milan-Inter i can see them at least 2 times a year Arsenal-Chelsea...and so on.

If I want to see Chelsea -Barcelona i will probably see the match in CHAMPIONS LEAGUE.

If i want to see Manchester -Valnecia i could see the match in Uefa LEAGUE

My choise

1 st place CL
2 place UL

Cup winners UL

And there we can see in witch countr playes best footbal,and all countrys will progress almost equal.

England has 4 teams in CL all of them have enormos bugets.

12.5% for one team to win CL if all teams that participate have equal bugets and chanses,they have enormos bugets, enormos stadiums ,excelent training facility,excelent scouts and doctors ,excelent youth systems in comparations with est countrys.
THat means the chanses for a team from England to win CL are abou 40 %

i know that Uefa put in our minds that we can`t see good matches if 3 teams from England wouldn`t play in CL.

BUT think before the system wwas inputed.When teams like Res Star , Steaua , Dinamo Kiev played against west side where very close battles.
The system prevented the grow of subtop countrys.
Now UEFA have maximum of money they can achieve from TOP 8 countrys and they want more,now they will help other countrys too and the 50 % coeficient from country has become 30% and now top 15 coutrys have a chanse,because they clearly dizavantaged places 4,5,6.

why?

simple 30 % of a coeficient let say 70 like top 3 countrys have means about 23,3 minimum 22.That grant`s seeding in UC R1 for all teams from this 3 countrys ,so if a team from this countrys wins the cup or they finish 7th or win the intertoto cup they are seeded. They don`t play so bad but think about it a champion from a country like Serbia could have a champion eliminated in CL q 3 and play UC R1 they aren`t seeded even here and they can play against Ajax.

SO for now top 3 is over protected.LEt all countrys be equal!!!!

Author: iwan
Date: 25-10-2006, 12:49
Edited by: iwan
at: 25-10-2006, 17:22

Yes, six years agow 3 off the 4 semiefinalist
off the championsleague ware Spanish teams.

Last year Liverpool and Arsenal met each-other
in the GS of the Championsleague.

Four years agow Feyenoord and PSV met each-other
in the quarterfinal of the UEFACUP.

In 1980 all the four semiefinalists off the UC
ware German teams.

All-right.

On the contionary, I've allways prefaired the
gabe between the 8 highest-ranked
countries and the rest, and this time too
I prefaired for that!!!
No doubt about that!!!

And why not!!!

I understand Doctor, your idea in CL is
8 pools of 6 for each 2 spots in the play-offs
and in the UC 32 pools of 3 for each
one spot in the play-offs!?!?

I prefair something better:
Give all the 53 countries 4 spots in the CL
and 4 spots in the UC!!! That should be
the most fair system to play!!!

And than in both tournement 32 pools of six
for each 2 spots in the play-offs, the nrs-3 and -4
off the CL-pools can play UC.
But when 2 teams from the same country meet
each-other, than I find it don't must happen
before the semiefinal!!!!!!!!!

And when all the 53 countries has 4 or 5 spots in the CL
and 4 or 5 in the UC than it's possible too in every
country to have TWO highest leagues off each 14 or 16 so
they'll have more time for CL and UC.

In theire both highest leagues the best 4 or 5 can
qualify for CL and UC what happens now to in theire
only highest leagues!!!

And about ranking:
I've never dissagreed with to don't let profit
all the from off the same country about winning
off one off them.

Rating is some-thing not the same thing than
the proportion of the teams in the CL and UC !!

Author: Overgame
Date: 25-10-2006, 13:23
Edited by: Overgame
at: 25-10-2006, 13:26

England was not seeded, and now with the new system, a new-comer in UC will not have enough points to be seeded (GS+33% and not 50% is changing this). And please, SEEDED IS DIFFERENT THAN QUALIFIED. Take Tottenham, most of the seeded team would have lost versus them.

For the rest, i'm not for a champion's league with only champions, but a system with 2 teams for the top 8 (champion qualified for the GS, runner-up to qR2) and a direct acces for the champion of the countries ranked 9-15 + a spot in GS for the country of the champion.

Ah, and the champion from the countries ranked 16-31 are seeded for the last qRound, of course.

Author: iwan
Date: 25-10-2006, 14:25

Dear Overgame,

Ofcourse I know seeding is something els
than qualifying!! Qualifying is meaning
when a team is directly placed for a later
round and that's disided about the place
of his country in the country-ranking,
cupwinners ranked 9 to -24 are qualified
for a later round than the teams of the
same country.

Seeding is meaning a country is selected
by club-team-ranking by the stronger teams
so 2 stronger teams never meet each-otter
in a KO-round, and it doesn't matter how
many rounds a country has played before!!

And in the CL-GS and UC-GS they've 4 or 5
pots instead to and seeded teams in 4 ore 5
levils about strongness, and never 2 teams
off the same pot in the same pool.

I know the difference many years!!

Re: Very much better systems in Europacups!!
Author: doctor Date: 25-10-2006, 15:30	@iwan u didn`t understood what i said 53 countrys with 4 cl presensence this is a very hilarious situation same situation like this year 4 teams from a country in a Champions League. 1 I want 53 countrys to have each 1 team in CL and that team to be the champion 2 I want 53 countrys to have 2 UC presence 1 from the cup and 1 from 2 place

Author: iwan
Date: 25-10-2006, 15:40
Edited by: iwan
at: 25-10-2006, 17:47

Yes, Doctor and AS gave me better ideas
about the Europacups!!!

It's better to handle everybody equal!!!

All the 53 countries receives 4 CL spots
and 4 UC-spots,only the 6 lowest-ranked each 3
CL-spots and the countries ranked 42-47 each 3 UC-spots.

And when there are 8 spots to give in each country
it will be possible two create 2 highest leagues
of each 14 ore 16 teams, the nrs-1 and -2 qualifies
for the CL and the nrs-3 and -4 for the UC.
Than countries has more time for Europacups.

Than the CL and UC both have 192 teams.

Before the GS the 192 CL-teams play one round
play-offs and the 192 UC-teams each two.

In the CL-GS 16 pools of six and in the UC eight.
Halve a competition everyware.
In every pool the 3 lowest-ranked teams has 3 home-matches
and the highest 3 each 2. The best 2 of each go in to
the play-offs what they do now too.
The nrs-3 off the CL-pools can play UC.

The totally 240 teams of the CL and UC who don't reach
the CL-GS or UC-GS, the holder and the nrs-8 from the
15 highest-ranked teams (totally 256) plat in an new
EC-III-tournament 8 rounds play-offs.

Author: doctor
Date: 25-10-2006, 15:48

@overgame
England no,but Italy yes,and this year i think all 3 will have teams seeded indiferent if they played or not in european cups. Seedness doen`t mean qualification but is a great advantage,Romania play in CL groups because they where seeded ,and when they didn`t have seedness 10 years they didn`t played.

If u think that seedness doesn`t matther that much i will say to u that u are ,i think ,one on this forum .

Author: Francisco
Date: 25-10-2006, 15:50

I still think that my old idea is better than any idea posted here

2 competitions with great value (instead of having a great CL and a weak UC):

1.Champions Cup
2.UEFA League

Champions Cup is only for the champions and is played in a pure knock-out system.
UEFA League is ALSO for the champions as well as a number to be determined (consider country ranking to fix the number) that play in a league system like CL. Of course it could be with 4 or more teams per group, but always a number of teams and groups that allows a fair competition in terms of home and away matches.

Author: doctor
Date: 25-10-2006, 16:07

@iwan

I prefer first 48 countrys all to have 1 CL presense all must play only one premilinary tour,then will remain 24 teams. Except Europe diveided in 2 parts Because Chelsea wouln't like to travel to Moskow for example.Like in USA est and vest.SO 12 teams from est and 12 teams from vest.

Then 24 teams will be organized in 4 groups (2 est groups , 2 vest groups) each group contain 6 teams no seedness.Group A,B west side C,D est side.

1st in A or B play against 2 in C or D
2st in A or B play against 1 in C or D

Then semifinals and Final.

Same in UC but they must one more preliminary tour.

Seedness will be in West side for example first 12 champions against last 12 champions.No numbers.

Then a super match played best players from est against best players from vest.

Author: badgerboy
Date: 25-10-2006, 16:11
Edited by: badgerboy
at: 25-10-2006, 16:59

I'm sorry but all domestic leagues are NOT equal.

The idea of absolutely equal representation for every country is worse than ridiculous.

I take extreme examples.

England - a 20 team top division with four very strong sides and the majority of the rest capable of competing at at least UEFA Cup level (yes if they all entered maybe half would lose in R1 but all would have chances).

Domestically 11 clubs have an average attendance of 30000+, 31 of 20000+, 71 of 5000+. In terms of facilities - 23 stadiums with over 30000 capacity, 49 with over 20000, 116 (that's virtually all clubs down to level 5 and a few level 6) with over 6000.

Armenia - an 8 club top division with one club of some historic merit (though which existing club this actually is appears debatable): where the most watched club has an average attendance of 650 and approximately five clubs play at a stadium with a capacity over 5000.

And there are actually people who think these two extremes deserve absolutely equal treatment. I'm not sure whether I should laugh or cry...

Edit: For the sake of accuracy

I should point out that there's absolutely no disputing the identity of Armenia's grandest old club - Ararat Yerevan. It's Pyunik (the current Champions) who seem to have cunningly switched identities with a rival & been credited with more trophies than perhaps they should...

Author: doctor
Date: 25-10-2006, 16:11

I agree with Francisco ,it`s way to much 3-4 teams in CL ,all it`s exagerated,even 2 teams brings a hudge advantage.

Equal chanses even if the country is small their champions represent them.

Le`s speak about small and big.Norvegia is a big country but people there like Handbal ,Hockey and so on.Maybe in Liechenstein are 100.000 people and all watch football.Let everyone have equal chanses 1 team per country.

Re: Very much better systems in Europacups!!
Author: badgerboy Date: 25-10-2006, 16:14	OK, now I see from Doctor's "East v West" post that this thread is just a joke. Sorry I got involved!

Author: doctor
Date: 25-10-2006, 16:15

@Badgerboy i agree with u but 1 team from Engalnd meaning their champion can beat Armenia champions.That`s more then enough why bring 4 teams from England ? To kill even 1% of Armenia chanse?

It`s an European trophy not a 3 country League.

England play only with froigners ,Armenia could do the same and beat them what`s the point,Let everyone have 1 team and then u will see all country grow,and u will see 40.000 people even in Armenia

Re: Very much better systems in Europacups!!
Author: doctor Date: 25-10-2006, 16:18	@badgerboy ,i think now the league is a joke , give the trophy to 1 team from top 3 countrys and close the deal ,the final stages from CL dosen`t interest me,the same matches i can watch in groups or in their championships.

Author: iwan
Date: 25-10-2006, 18:06

Yes, in countries with only 8 or 10 proff-teams
it can give problems with 7 or 8 teams in CL or UC.

Not enough exitement in the national league.
Not enough stadiums with enough safety for
international matches.

But not enough sitting-places in the studium....
Every team is responsible for that when they
les sitting-places can sell to fans than
stronger teams.

Lower ranked countries can have 5 or 6 spots
in the 2 or 3 europacups!! And countries with-out
a proff-league 2 or 3.

But what ever, when there are 4 CL and 4 UC tickets
to give the national leagues can become very and
very more exiting than now!!

Example:
Holland,Belgium and Germany, all off them has 38
proff-teams split-up in a first league of 18 and
a 2nd league of 20 teams. They can do than in all
the 3 countries two 1st leagues of each 14 teams
and one 2nd league of 10 and a dubble competition
in the 2nd league.

The champions off the both 1st leagues qualifies
directly for the CL. The runners-up play a play-off
for the 3rd CL-spot. Twe nrs-3 play a play-off and
the winner of them plays a play-off against the
loosers off the runners-up for the last CL-spot.

The nrs-4 play a play-off for the 3rd UC-spot and the
nrs-5 play a play-off to, the winners off the nrs-5
plays a play-off against the looser off the nrs-4 for
the last UC-spot.

When there's a spot to give for the earlier called
EC-III than the winner off the nrs-6 plays a play-off
against the loosers off the nrs-5.

The both nrs-14 degrade directly and the best 3 teams
off the 2nd league promote direcly, the nrs-4 and -5
off the 2nd league play play-offs with the both nrs-13
off the both 1st leagues for one spot in the 1st league.

There will be more exiting in the national leagues
about the places and play-offs,every place in the 1st leagues
make difference, more teams in the highest division
and more time for the GS in the 2 or 3 Europacups!!

Author: geo
Date: 26-10-2006, 10:49
Edited by: geo
at: 26-10-2006, 10:54

Come on guys, your imagination goes way beyond the (albeit vague) borders of common sense. You play with european cups like you're shuffling cards - random. Just try to think a little about, for example, economics in football. I admire Badgerboy a lot for being able to reply seriously. Something I couldn't!

I suggest that in the eurocups the first half the game is football, and the second half another sport, like rugby (like they did at the founding schools in the old days) or a hot-dog eating contest. The referee is replaced by an elephant, for excitement. If a top-3 country plays a non-top 30 country, they have to replace three players with hamsters. And no goalkeeper allowed. For the sake of equality.

Re: Very much better systems in Europacups!!
Author: badgerboy Date: 26-10-2006, 11:40	Geo You do do an injustice to Francisco though. His idea wasn't that bad - just very difficult to see how to fit two European competitions for one club into the calendar. Iwan I think is a nice guy but is afflicted with a dose of "formatitis" serious even by the standards of people who visit this forum!

Author: geo
Date: 26-10-2006, 12:02

I'm convinced iwan is a nice guy, and I agree with him in every way that Uefa should do more to make football more competitive inter-country wise. But that's the responsability of a country too, and maybe even more so. The format is (imho) a balanced one right now (serving the big clubs and giving even the smallest clubs some nice fixtures). I like it as it is right now (maybe I should point out that I'm from Belgium - not seeing much european football after christmas too), I'm just not happy with the way the money is split up (CL - UC).

You can't just mess the whole thing up and say everything will be more equal afterwards. Because it won't.

Author: badgerboy
Date: 26-10-2006, 12:50

The split of money between CL & UEFA Cup is the main concern expressed by Ignjat63 on the related thread too.

I guess this is essentially the same issue that exists in the domestic game (parallels yet again), at least in England - but I'm sure elsewhere too. Many people think a far bigger percentage of the money currently paid to the Premier League clubs for TV rights & prize money should be cascaded to clubs in the lower leagues & grass roots.

In a way they are right but unfortunately economics has to be a factor. Personally, I prefer a system that sees at least some of the money cascading down (however paltry the amounts relative to those sucked up by the big clubs) than any changes that make it preferable financially for the big clubs to go it alone - in which case no money at all cascades to the rest.

ON the issue of UEFA Cup prize money. I posted the available figures here a few weeks ago. As I said at the time the thing I found most surprising (insulting even?) given the relatively low prize pot is the amount set aside for the participants in the Super Cup - one of whom already pocketed huge sums for winning the previous season's CL!

The first steps I would take (which would be a long way from "equality" but would be reasonable small steps) would be:

(i) Have the Super Cup prize money revoked (or paid from somewhere other than the UEFA Cup prize pot). If clubs really need so much "appearance money" for such a pointless fixture it really should be abolished though.

(ii) The money paid to clubs for appearing in the group stage, last 32 & last 16 (which I think isn't much more than is paid to clubs who lose in the qualifying rounds of both competitions) should be paid out of the CL pot (as part of the "solidarity payments" or whatever it is UEFA wants to call such things). That would free up around €12m additional prize money for clubs who reach the latter stages of the UEFA Cup.

Of course it's better if clubs aren't transferring in from the CL Group Stage to win this extra money but that's a separate issue...

Author: AS
Date: 26-10-2006, 14:02

Dear @iwan and all,
I was away for a day so I couldn’t answer you immediately. Sorry!
I didn’t speak much about my idea about UEFA Cup. The way anyway is easy. I consider UEFA Cup as second in level after Champion League, where some associations have 4 teams, 3 teams or two, most of them 1 only! Why? So to not repeat the same differential situation I should give in UEFA Cup to all association the same starting, for example 4 teams each! Some association are actually too small to give 4 teams to UEFA Cup and they could be differently. These could be thought like exception: in front of second level European competition all European associations could start equal – same rights! It should be honest!
How many teams! 52 * 4 = 208!

Author: iwan
Date: 03-11-2006, 19:42

Or, what's possible to:
Yhe 72 teams who'll reach the CL-GS and
UC-GS can play the same system than they do now.

But the loosers off CL-Q1,CL-Q2 and UC-R1,totally
64 must play 2 rounds play-offs at the same time
like the CL-GS and UC-GS.

The 16 winners play in UC-R3 with the resting 32
teams qualified like the same way as now.
In R3 they'll have one match and a home-match
for the winners and runners-up of the UC-GS,
and the 8 teams coming from the CL-GS.

The 24 winners of R3 play one round play-offs
in 2 matches the 12 winners will be put in
the 2nd UC-GS with the 8 runners-up off the
1st CL-GS in 4 pools of 5 for each 2 spots in
the quarterfinals in the 2nd UC-GS halve a competition
can be enough (2 at home and 2 away) in the quarterfinals
the 4 winners has a home-match, the semiefinals can
be played in neutral venues, maybe 48 hours before
the final in the same city like the final.

In the 1st-CL-GS: 8 pools off 4, the 8 winners
qualify for the 2nd CL-GS in 2 pools of 4 for
each 2 spots in the semiefinals, in the SF a home
match for the both poolswinners.

The runners-up of the 1st CL-GS in the 2nd UC-GS
and the nrs-3 must play play-offs for the 2nd UC-GS.

Nobody has to play more than matches more than now!!

Author: iwan
Date: 04-11-2006, 19:14

Before 1992 in the Champions League and Cupwinnerscup
every country had one member and the holder was
directly placed. The 2 or 4 teams who musted play
a premerly round was dicided by draw.
Only in the UEFACUP not each country had the
same number,only the UC-spots was decided
about ranking.

Later they decided more about ranking and voila:
In the CL the higher ranked countries has each 4 spots,
2 in the GS and 2 in Q3, the lower ranked countries
only one in Q1.

Too much difference!!!

I wanne have countries higher ranked more spots
but not to let play the lower ranked teams to much
premerlyrounds more!!

By the way: By the qualification for the WCT and ECT
every country is placed in a pool with an equal number
for an equal number of spots (include play-offs).

In the South-American Copa de Liberatadores, their
clubteam championship there are 32 members who play
the same system like in the CL-GS here and later.
All the 10 countries has 3 members in it and the
holder and runner-up off the last Copa are directly
placed.

Why can't be possible that here!??!

Author: CSKA-SOFIA88
Date: 05-11-2006, 03:33

It will NEVER chaing UEFA and FIFA do care ONLY of MONEY MAKING! the old system (before 1992) was good cus evry country had their champs in the CL,but champs like Levski,CSKA Sofia,Rpid,Dinamo,Red Star,Partizan will never bring them as much money as the 3-th or 4-th from Germany,England,Spain,Italy or France so face it CL is ONLY for RICH countries and will never chaing cus thats wat is all obaut FUCKEN MONEY!!! THEY DONT CARE FOR THE FOOTBALL!!!

Re: Very much better systems in Europacups!!
Author: iwan Date: 05-11-2006, 08:40	Yes, that's why it's better to give all the countries in Europe 4 Champions League- and 4 UEFACUP-spots!!

Author: badgerboy
Date: 05-11-2006, 13:59

"In the South-American Copa de Liberatadores, their
clubteam championship there are 32 members who play
the same system like in the CL-GS here and later.
All the 10 countries has 3 members in it and the
holder and runner-up off the last Copa are directly
placed.

Why can't be possible that here!??!"

Sorry to pour cold water on the egalitarianism of the South Americans.

First though dealing with a 10 country federation is a little bit different to 50+. Second - a careful study of the facts suggests some are more equal than others. Brazil & Argentina actually get five spots each and everybody else three. 38 teams in all entered the latest edition with six qualifying matches. Brazil actually had six entrants including the holders.

In the past - before their football improved - I seem to recall Venezuela had less entrants than everyone else. Then they had to pre-qualify against invited Mexican teams.

Mexico are a power in the region so get invited to take part. French Guiana, Surinam, Guyana are conveniently jettisoned to another confederation - despite being geographically in South America.

Re: Very much better systems in Europacups!!
Author: iwan Date: 05-11-2006, 20:08	Daer Badgerboy, Thanx for your information about the Copa de Liberatadores!! But what's the system they play in the Copa!?!? Let me guess: Nine pools of 4, the nine winners and the five best runners-up going with the holder and one other team in to the 2nd GS then they do 4 pools of 4 for each 2 spots in the quarterfinal!?!? Im I right?!?!

Re: Very much better systems in Europacups!!
Author: badgerboy Date: 05-11-2006, 20:24	No. This year and last was 8 groups of 4 then KO from last 16. Exactly the same as in CL. As I said in my original post the 38 teams were whittled down to 32 with a preliminary round. In 2004 they did play 9 groups of 4 (36 teams). Worst 4 runners-up had to play off for last two spots in the last 16.

Author: dragos_popa17
Date: 07-11-2006, 12:58

32 teams set up into 8 groups of 4 seems to me as an excellent system. The only question is about who should be in this 8 groups of 4. Some say that top countries shouldn't have 4 teams in the competition and that only national champions should partipate in the CL. But the thing is that it's the teams from the high ranked countries that make the competition great. Taking Steaua as an example(because I'm from Romania), their goal was not to play Gorica(champions of Slovenia) or Dinamo Zagreb(champions of Croatia), but to play Real Madrid, Manchester United, AC Milan or other great teams that didn't win their national competitions. Filling the competition with weaker teams would make it lose it's glamour. And the way I see it, it's not the national league ranking that makes a team a true champion, but it's strenght and reputation. As a conclusion, I wouldn't drop the number of participants form the same country bellow 3. Actually, I would leave it as it is. It's worked in past years and it looks to get better and better.
As for the UEFA Cup, I think the current system is very close to perfection. The Group Stages allow smaller teams to play more games against stronger teams. By doing this they become better themselves. The groups also become stronger every year. I think it's a good way to develop European football and to tighten the gap between the Champions League and the UEFA Cup.

Author: iwan
Date: 08-11-2006, 21:48

Dear Badgerboy,

Thank you verymutch about your inforamtion
off the Copa de Liberatadores!!!

But that means Mexcican teams play AND in
the CONCACAC-clubteam-championship and in the
Copa de Liberatadores!?!?

That means 30 matches in the national league,
eight in the national cup, eight champions
play-offs in the national league, 16 in the
CdL, 16 in the CONCACAF-clubteamcup, totally
that means 78 matches for the clubteam!!!

And the national team must play matches
for the WTC-qualification and the concacafcup
and confederationscup and that can be players
in 'big seasons'must play 102 matches a year.

Can they manage that?!?

Author: badgerboy
Date: 09-11-2006, 11:09

Iwan

I'm no expert on South American football but I do know in some countries (Brazil for sure) they seem to have a very strange attitude when it comes to the fixture calendar.

Domestic games & Copa Libertadores games can be scheduled very close to each other. I'm not sure if on the same day but certainly within 24 hours. So teams often play with their reserve squad domestically & concentrate on the Copa Libertadores - or I guess sometimes vice versa.

I don't know if the same happens in Mexico specifically - but it wouldn't surprise me.

Author: iwan
Date: 09-11-2006, 22:29

Badgerboy,

I've surfed on other webpages and found the system they
play in the concacaf-clubteamcup.

Mexico,United States and Costarica all off them
has each two members. It can be the best 2 teams
off the champions play-offs or the play-off-champion
and the point-champion.

The've a Central American Cup and a Caraibian Cup
the winners off those 2 cups are placed too.

Totally 8 teams in the concacaf-clubtam-cup, 2 pools
off each 4 teams for each 2 spots in the semiefinals.
The both poolwinners has each a homematch in the semiefinal.

Mexcican teams play only 8 matches in the
concacaf-clubteamcup, not 15.

Where the champion of Canada plays in I don't know.

Re: Very much better systems in Europacups!!
Author: Lupta_Steaua Date: 10-11-2006, 00:59	By the way guys, I found this quite funny: Canadian league champions are called Serbian White Eagles, and the runners up are the Toronto Croatia. The Italia shooters are only in fifth. Looks like the European wide championship is building up actually in Canada

Re: Very much better systems in Europacups!!
Author: iwan Date: 29-11-2006, 18:24	Yesterday Quebeck becames indipendent from Canada. That means they must change the system in the concacafclubteamcup!?!? In with zone must Quebeck play now?!? ore.....Maybe quebeck can become a member of the UEFA!??!

Author: iwan
Date: 29-11-2006, 19:39

Yesterday in a quizz there was a question:
How many countries are there in the entire world.
The answare should be 193.

But I think it must be 217.
In Europe there are 56 countries, 4 off them
aren't me,ber off the UEFA: Greenland,Vatican-city,
Monaco and Gibraltar.

In the last Asiancup there ware 46 countries
playing in it. In the last CONCACAFCUP 39,
maybe Quebeck will be the 40th country.

Africa 53,Oceania 12,COMNEBOL 10, totally
that are not 193 but 217 !!!

Re: Very much better systems in Europacups!!
Author: coppo Date: 29-11-2006, 20:09	Wales, N-Ireland, Scotland, England are no countries. Liechtenstein, Vatican city, Gibraltar also not. For the rest, I cannot explanin the difference...

Author: thomas
Date: 29-11-2006, 20:37
Edited by: thomas
at: 29-11-2006, 20:49

UN recognizes 193 countries (192 members + Vatican)

FIFA members, that are not recognized by UN:
Bermudas
Turcs & Caicos
Cayman
Puerto Rico
US Virgin Islands
British Virgin Islands
Anguilla
Montserrat
Netherlands Antilles
Aruba
Faroer
England
Scottland
Wales
Northern Ireland
Palestine
Macao
Hongkong
Taiwan
Guam
New Caledonia
Cook
American Samoa
Tahiti
24 in total

Countries recognized by UN, but no FIFA member:
Vatican City
Monaco
United Kingdom
Montenegro (soon to leave this list)
Palau
Micronesia
Marshall Islands
Nauru
Tuvalu
Kiribati
10 in total

193 + 24 - 10 = 207 members of FIFA

Some other remarks:

coppo, you are wrong, Liechtenstein and Vatican City are independent countries!

All UN members can be found under http://www.un.org/Overview/unmember.html

Iwan, I have not heard anything about Quebec independence, I think that was just a rumor.

But next year the Netherlands Antilles will split: Curacao and Sint Maarten will get the same status that Aruba has now, so we can expect, that they will also get national teams. Bonaire, Saba ans St. Eustatius will become Koninkrijkseilanden (Kingdom Islands), I do not know, if they get own national team(s).

And we can expect Montenegro as a new member of FIFA and UEFA soon, Gibraltar is very likely and the German Wiki says Greenland is likely to become member as well.