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Author: dinamo_fan_4_ever
Date: 22-04-2007, 10:01
| this topic comes to to take a view of the last maches in each country and to observe unexpected rankings. its not for polemics or arguing or spamm (iwan).
i will start with romania:
romania the surprize cfr cluj has 6 pts in front of steaua and rapid(-1) steaua can miss europe if ends 4th
belgium brugges needs to win the cup or loose it against anderlect to get a UC spot. the league ranking doesnt give them a IT spot
germany bayern seems to miss the top 3 and is going in the uefa cup
france the most interesting championship and probably the most dramatic, toulouse can beat OM, lens & lille and get a UCL spot while rennes can take a UC spot. finally 13th ranked - auxerre still has good chances to catch europe next year.
spain
recreativo & santander aim a UC spot while zaragoza can beat the odds and end 4th
poland legia and wisla still out of top 3, belchatov and zaglebie batteling for the title |
Author: moro
Date: 22-04-2007, 10:20
| About France - it is as usual. I remember me listening last round at radio on the highway last season, in last ten minutes there were 4 or 5 teams to switch CL with UC, UC with IT, UC with nothing, nothing with IT or UC, etc.
About Romania's surprise - CFR Cluj, I watched them carefully yesterday, they impressed me and appears to be a very solid team. Since some portuguese and really good brasilian players came in, there's even some spectacle in their game. Finally, I would'nt mind if they goes in CL, the regret I have is that they wont be seeded and need some luck to get an accesible team. I tried today to find some relations between results from this year, tried to connect Cluj with Bistrita, Dinamo Buc and maybe Farul Constanta to see if there were some arrangements, I gave up, nothing obvious. Seven rounds to play. CFR masters of their destiny if wins directs games all at home against Steaua , Rapid and Bistrita, can afford to loose at Dinamo, sure win against Farul last day, two more draws possible. Steaua has easy program, if they wont loose at Cluj, may win last 6 games (not playing like they did in last 4...). But I feel that if rapid wins the game tonight against Dinamo, the decision for 2-nd CL spot will be made three rounds from now (CFR Cluj-Rapid: CFR wins, they goes in CL; draw - it'll be Steaua; Rapid wins- CL). |
Author: ikoon
Date: 22-04-2007, 11:18
| @moro, CFR Cluj has an infernal program : with Rapid and Steaua at home (both very good teams in away games), with Dinamo away, then a hard game at Iasi with Politehnica (very hard to win on their own stadium), with Gloria aslo interested in IT and even Farul is a good team. I consider that they will be lucky to finish 4 and grab a IC place, as Poli Timisoarea will take the last UC spot from the Cup and in my opinon Rapid the last UC spot from championship. Steaua is for sure favorite to the second place, as they have a very easy schedule (exepting maby the game in Cluj). And after the games yesterday, the distance is now only 6p by Steaua and with a good assumption by Rapid (who will lose to Dianmo today), and Steaua already passing on 3rd. Don't be mislead by the relatively big distance, as is mostly the effect of some schedule circumstances and Cluj cannot have better expectation than 4 place (maxim 3 in some circumstances). Sorry but no present for other competitior in rankings, as Romania will be represented by the best 2 teams in CL. |
Author: Overgame
Date: 22-04-2007, 12:48
| Brugge can still finish 5th and play the IC (if Brugge doesn't win the cup, or play the final against Anderlecht, the Cup winner will be found among the top4).
About Romania : that's funny to hear :p When moro (and most of their compatriots) are impressed by Cluj, ikoon is still sure to see them 5th.
When i see the results away of Steaua, i'm wondering how he can call it 'very good teams in away games' : 3w 6d 4l !!!, or the results from Rapid : 4w 6d 3l.
And, just for the fun, let's check the results of Cluj at home : 10w 3d 0l. Well, everything is said, i think. Cluj might end 5th, but, right now, it would be a surprise to see both Steaua and Rapid winning in Cluj. |
Author: moro
Date: 22-04-2007, 13:17
| Ikoon, first of all, I'm supporting equally all romanian teams in Uefa competitions, and I'm watching the championship without heart fibrillation especially for one team. Your problem on this topic is that you're not calculating, but puting your hopes and dreams on the paper! Here why: 1. You cant be sure Romania will be represented by best two teams in CL. Last summer, Steaua was the best team, but in autumn the one was Dinamo, and at this moment definetely Rapid and CFR Cluj. You know that our teams cant stand straight a whole season, there are fluctuations... Plus, lot of changes to be seen in summer (trainers, players). 2. Steaua play zero football. The last good game they played was against UTA I guess. Yesterday was another stinky one. So when you say CFR will have difficulties against Farul, Iasi and Bistrita, tou forget Steaua plays against Urziceni (excellent team, Otelul and desperate Ceahlaul). I'm sorry to prevent you that a draw at Cluj would be maximum Steaua could take, this became obvious to me after seeing both teams playing yesterday. 3. I still suspect Dinamo to let all 3 points to Cluj, just to harm Steaua and Rapid, "life-ennemies". Give me one reason why Dinamo would beat them. 4. Steaua and Rapid have almost the same program (5 identical games/7). Rapid-Iasi vs Steaua-Pandurii should give same result; Gloria-Rapid vs Jiul-Steaua is the only difference, but as far as I know, there were lot of friendly results between those teams in the past yeras... So if Rapid dont lose tonight, I think logically Steaua wont pass them. Good luck to all teams and fans. |
Author: Dragonite
Date: 22-04-2007, 13:18
| How anti-diversity, Ikoon!
You complain about 21/32 (in fact just 19/32 this season) of the CL spots are given to just 6 nations (and the other 46 have just few spots to fight for).
However, in your own country, 3/4 of the European spots are occupied by teams from just one city, Bucharest. Isnt it anti diversity too?? One city gets 75% of the spots and all the teams from the rest of the country have just 1 spot to fight for??
Can you explain this? |
Author: moro
Date: 22-04-2007, 13:47
| I'm not answering in his place, but until two years ago even Bucarest teams were not competitive, non-Bucarest teams were really weak. This is first year where we can see quality there. |
Author: daggy
Date: 22-04-2007, 14:31
| If Steaua finishes 4th, don't they get the chance to play for Intertoto? Or did they forget to subscribe for the IT spot? |
Author: moro
Date: 22-04-2007, 15:17
| Executor said on another topic Steaua was not on the list. And knowing the boss Becali, with his comic proud, I dont think they will ask for IT pitty. |
Author: ikoon
Date: 22-04-2007, 16:29
| How anti-diversity, Ikoon!
You complain about 21/32 (in fact just 19/32 this season) of the CL spots are given to just 6 nations (and the other 46 have just few spots to fight for).
However, in your own country, 3/4 of the European spots are occupied by teams from just one city, Bucharest. Isnt it anti diversity too?? One city gets 75% of the spots and all the teams from the rest of the country have just 1 spot to fight for??
Can you explain this?
@Dragonite,
I don't remember, in Romanian Liga 1, or any other domestic league for that matter, the Bucharest teams having direct access or seedings, or their satelits playing in the same league.
I also don't remeber that a domestic league being a inter city competitions, but just a teams competiton with no regard of their location. And when i say no regard, i mean, no kind of city coefficents, no kind of city ranking and no kind of 30% city contribution.
It was explanatory enough? |
Author: Lyonnais
Date: 22-04-2007, 17:01
| isn't it a seeding system in the Romanian Cup? |
Author: ikoon
Date: 22-04-2007, 17:02
Edited by: ikoon at: 22-04-2007, 17:27 | @moro, we just have to wait and see.
I said that Romania will be represented by best 2 teams, in the coefficient context, as Dinamo cannot be reach, from CFR, Rapid and Steaua, the last has the better coefficient and the best chances to be seeded in CLQR3.
I also said that Steaua has the easiest schedule, teams like Jiul(18th), National (17th), Ceahlaul (15th), Pandurii (11th), Urziceni (8th), Otelul (6th) and the most difficult at Cluj.
Cluj: Dinamo (1th), Rapid (3th), Steaua (4th), Gloria (5th), Poli Iasi (10th), Farul (12th) and FC Arges (16th).
Rapid, has more chances to second place in my opinion, than Cluj, but let's see the result against Dinamo tonight, and the next round a hard game to Bistrita. After next round, Rapid could end up with 3p behaind Steaua and a similar program (+ a match in Cluj). And to the same points Steaua goes.
Of course these prediction are debatable, it's just my opinion and maby a little subjective. I admit that i'm not such impresed by Cluj's football in general, although it made some good games in the second half of championship. But the normal title contenders, beside Dinamo, had really bad results and this is the reason Cluj is so high. I definatively dislike the ideea of having CFR Cluj on a CL spot, as has a low coefficient and no experience in Europe. I think it is better suited for a UC spot, everything in small steps.
Also, you may want to consider the result of CFR Cluj, against the current top teams, from first half:
Steaua - CFR Cluj 4-2 Rapid - CFR cluj 3-1 Gloria - CFR Cluj 3-2 CFR Cluj - Dinamo 2-1 |
Author: ikoon
Date: 22-04-2007, 17:07
Edited by: ikoon at: 22-04-2007, 17:16 | isn't it a seeding system in the Romanian Cup?
@Lyonnais,
Between cities? I don't think so. Why, it should be?
On the second though maby you are right. Not all the teritorial districts contribute the same to the TV reveune. I think we should make some sort of system in both league and cup and distribute spots for every city based on this criterium. Even the access in Liga 1 should be restricted to the richer cities.
Imagine how a team with a budged under 1 mil and from a very small city, like Urziceni, have the nerve to start in Liga 1, in the first round, with 0p same as the big 3 teams. Is this fair? |
Author: executor
Date: 22-04-2007, 17:33
| {i>isn't it a seeding system in the Romanian Cup?{/i>
Yes, all the way to the semifinals.
Now let's concentrate on what happens in Netherlands. 3 teams on equal points with 1 round to play!! Who do you think will make it? And what happened in Groningen's match? |
Author: moro
Date: 22-04-2007, 17:47
| I confirm, there's a seeding system in Romanian Cup, based on what - that I dont know (current position in ch-ship? last year position?). Anyway, it's just another unfair decision made by thiefs running federation and League to help comrades (to pronounce like that, not sure about writing this word).
So what will happen in Holland? First to go in CL, then how's gonna be the play-off? 2-5 and 3-4? Even if our dutch friends hate the system, I think this particular year the play off could be a good ideea, since those teams are so close one to another. The only problem is that maybe the 5-th team catch an incredible day or another ref betting money on the game he's reffering, and goes in CL... |
Author: bert.kassies
Date: 22-04-2007, 17:59
| Not all Dutch hate the system. Rank 2-5 are sure to play UEFA Cup, but can take a CL-QR3 spot in two home-away knock-out matches (indeed first matches are 2-5 and 3-4).
What I don't like like is that the winner of these play-off matches takes the second place in the league. I think the CL spot is a reward on it's own. But probably otherwise UEFA didn't agree with such a play-off system. |
Author: ikoon
Date: 22-04-2007, 18:04
| @moro,
Lyonnais, ask just a retorical question about seedings, trying to put in the same category a domestic cup system with the european system, as i think that every cup from any country organised in more then 1 football levels / division it has a seeding system, from organisatoric and schedule reasons.
There are of course 2 totally different situations, between a european competition and a domestic cup competition.
We discuss about countries who recive more CL spots; this would be similar with some cities that recive more spots for more teams in the cup, based on the performances / budgest of some teams, which is unheard off in the domestic competitions.
Regarding the access, and the fact that superior level teams starts in later rounds in the domestic cups, this is purely the result of:
1. schedule reasons: the first level teams, will have to play a considerable amount of matches, some in 3 competition, and the result will be to give up the cup.
2. the fact that each league / division, represent a already confirmed football level delimitation; juridicaly and competional the teams play in different competition, not in the same as happen for example in CL.
Of course from all angles, the comparation stand as inaccurate. |
Author: moro
Date: 22-04-2007, 18:16
| @Bert It's cruel what happend now in Holland. The italian system (if still available) - where teams with same amount of points playing tie-break would be nice now in tulipes land. But after all it's not matter of life and death.
@Ikoon Dont tell me seeding Rapid and Steaua in SF Ro-Cup and before that has nothing to do with friendship between League and Federation presidents and Rpid, Dinamo, Steaua's presidents. Or, as I said, comrads, because when you commit infractions with somebody you're comrad, not friend with him.
About CFR Cluj - I missjudged them based on two insipids games against weak teams; what I saw yesterday surprised me. They look very mature and seemed playing together since 4-5 years. Although I would appreciate to see our 3 high coeff teams 1-2-3, I predict nice future for this team, if players stays there. It's gonna be in draws hand... CL or UC, no matter. |
Author: Overgame
Date: 22-04-2007, 18:33
| Steaua - Cluj 4-2 Rapid - Cluj 3-1 Gloria - Cluj 3-2 CFR Cluj - Dinamo 2-1
Rapid - Steaua 2-3 Rapid - Gloria 4-0 Rapid - Cluj 3-1 Steaua - Rapid 1-1 Dinamo - Rapid 3-1
Steaua - CFR Cluj 4-2 Steaua - Rapid 1-1 Steaua - Gloria 2-1 Steaua - Dinamo 2-4 Rapid - Steaua 2-2 Gloria - Steaua 2-0 Dinamo - Steaua 1-0
Whar are we supposed to see ? The top teams (excepting Dinamo) are playing desastrous away ?
Steaua has 4 games away left. Rapid has 4 games away left. Cluj has 3 games away left.
Really, Cluj is in the best position to end 2nd. Unbeatten at home, if they win next week, they're sure to end above Steaua. If they lose, they have still a +3. With a draw, Steaua is almost out of the problem. |
Author: Dragonite
Date: 22-04-2007, 19:59
| Ikoon,
You are Mr. Diversity.
Every person has the right to have a hospital near his home. Every person has the right to have a school near his home. And, according to you, every European nation has the right to be represented in the CL. So (inspired in your 16 teams CL topic), why not take the next step?? Every CITY has the right to be represented in the CL!!
Imagine in a future Romania has 3 teams in the CL- Dinamo Bucharest, Steaua Bucharest and Rapid Bucharest. Bucharest will be represented with 3 teams in the CL (it never happened in the history of the CL, a city with 3 teams)
and other Romanian cities wont have a single team.
This too is anti-diversity!! To develop football everywhere, in every Romanian city, there should be a rule to cut off the 3rd Romanian team from Bucharest
or only allow 1 team per city?
Do you like this diversity theory
or it hurts you because it may take something that belongs to your team?? Now you know what each federation feels when they know about the possibility of taking something that belongs to them. |
Author: moro
Date: 22-04-2007, 20:38
| Overgame, there's no disaster since four teams has more than 50 points 7 games to the end!! I dont see why in the name of diversity we must put Cluj in CL ?? 3 teams from Bucarest, or 3 from Cluj, same thing to me. |
Author: dinamo_fan_4_ever
Date: 22-04-2007, 21:37
| about cfr/steaua/rapid. the waysome peole think cluj wont make it is because: 1. the pressure is huge for a team that wishes to achieve its best performance EVER !!!! 2. the players are not so experienced as the ones from steaua or rapid 3. the shedule is a bid harder than steaua's or rapid's
i must say i miself think cluj will end 2nd. 6 pts is a huge advantage, mostly when rapid or steaua dont play super good football. going more and after this rapid-dinamo 1-4 and latest results i think that only cfr can loose 2nd spot rather than rapid or steaua ending on it. but you never know what pressure can do.
about the cup format. i would vote against seeding in the semifinals if all the other rounds would be played in 2 legs: home/away and of course canceling the way in which the looser finalist can go in uefa cup. |
Author: Lyonnais
Date: 22-04-2007, 21:46
| what an extraordinary finish in the Netherlands! 3 teams on the same line for the last game. Amazing. |
Author: larmen
Date: 22-04-2007, 22:21
| We once had a 3 team finish in Germany. within teh 90 minutes all teams were leading the league, and I think in the end Stuttgart took it.
Regarding the current situation, Bayern is 5 points behind Stuttgart, I still do not write them off. They had more than their share of come-backs so far. But it would be nice if they would mis out once. |
Author: Overgame
Date: 22-04-2007, 22:31
| "Overgame, there's no disaster since four teams has more than 50 points 7 games to the end!!"
Sorry, i was not claiming that their results are disastrous, just saying that Cluj is unbeatten at home while Rapid and Steaua lost so much points away, and 2 defeats at home for Cluj would be a big surprise. |
Author: moro
Date: 22-04-2007, 22:44
| Overgame, after I took better knowledge about Cluj team, I suggest you're wright about Cluj losing at home = surprise, mostly because the quality of their play.
Dinamo fan, there's a big advantage for Cluj - if Cluj wins one of those games against St and Rap, there you have second place. |
Author: dinamo_fan_4_ever
Date: 22-04-2007, 23:00
| yes, but if they loose and then play away game and loose again they will be crushed moraly.
out of respect for steaua(and steaua's stadium) i support steaua in trying to end 2nd. they god few chances but they can do it. |
Author: sb
Date: 23-04-2007, 00:04
| statistics help cluj because they have had an easier schedule then Steaua or rapid, hence you are inclined to think that 2 home defeats are a surprise. Steaua and rapid won't have the regular problems they have when they an average team, that team defending 10 men inside their own half 80 minutes per match (maybe i have exagerated, but just so u can see my point). another argument against "2 home defeats = surprise", average romanian teams have treated cluj like a normal team, one they could easily win/draw against, not like a 2nd position contender. therefore they didn't practice the baricades tactics. anyway, with every stage the situation is bound to change. |
Author: cinebelul
Date: 23-04-2007, 01:45
Edited by: cinebelul at: 23-04-2007, 01:45 | @bert If you already put Porto for the Portugal-CL1, you could do the same with Dinamo for the Romanian-CL1 too.. |
Author: seleucus
Date: 23-04-2007, 01:56
| It's "CL1-3=FC Porto", because Porto already guaranteed a place in CL.
League Table: 1. FC Porto 62 2. Sporting CP 58 3. SL Benfica 57 4. CF Belenenses 43
Only 4 matchdays until the end. |
Author: badgerboy
Date: 23-04-2007, 02:04
| "Now let's concentrate on what happens in Netherlands. 3 teams on equal points with 1 round to play!! Who do you think will make it? And what happened in Groningen's match?"
Yes - what a finish there is going to be in the Netherlands. A three way battle for the title - & with the play-off system no less than 8 teams in contention for two Champions League places.
And that Groningen game might also be very important...
We know about the top. If AZ wins against Excelsior then - assuming there are no "rugby scores" for Ajax or PSV then they should be Champions. Hurrah for AZ!
But what about the battle for fifth spot? Heerenveen v Feyenoord. The winner will be in the play-offs (Go Heerenveen!) - but if there is no winner then Feyenoord's lousy goal difference means that either Roda - who have a nice easy home fixture against "nothing to play for" Heracles or Groningen - who have a much tougher game at home to Utrecht - who also must at least draw or risk missing out on a UEFA Cup play-off place to NAC - could snatch the coveted 5th spot. Roda's current goal difference is +4 - Groningen's was 0 before today but they were 3-0 up when play was suspended.... |
Author: dinamo_fan_4_ever
Date: 23-04-2007, 08:23
| and whats the tiebreaker in holland ? goal difference ? |
Author: Ricardo
Date: 23-04-2007, 08:26
| yes, badgerboy, The fight for 5th spot - and a guaranteed UEFA-cup ticket, is almost more interesting and diverse as the fioght for championship. Some people will say it is due to the play-offs that it is this interesting, but if you think of the normal way, then 5th & 6th posistions would be a UefaCUp spot. the same 4 teams fighting now for 1 spot would then be fighting for 2 spots. As good as the same excitement.
For coefficient reasons it looks like not too good for the Dutch. AZ being in the CL may not be the best. They showed against Bremen that they do not belong to that top level (yet). In the play-offs I expect PSV and Ajax to fight for the second CL spot: Twente & nr. 4 not good enough. Especially for PSV it will be harsh to play UefaCup. They are not in excellent financial condition (despite their CL participation for most of the last 10 years) and they will lose/not attract some good players due to this. Koeman appears to be a good technical coach, but not too much of a mental coach- he has given up the title already a month ago. |
Author: moro
Date: 23-04-2007, 09:10
| In Spain very exciting end also, Valencia for the moment out from CL. Question: if in England MU and Chelsea have same number of points, the tiebreaker is goal-difference or direct results? |
Author: panda
Date: 23-04-2007, 09:17
| moro it's GD, so it's lke MU have extra point |
Author: Edgar
Date: 23-04-2007, 09:43
| Regarding the Romanian Cup.
Last season's top 6 teams are kept apart as much as possible - it's in the Romanian Cup regulations. |
Author: bert.kassies
Date: 23-04-2007, 11:11
| @cinebelul, where did you see Porto at Portugal-CL1? |
Author: Ricardo
Date: 23-04-2007, 13:01
| We might have some big names in UefaCup that played CL quarterfinals this year: Valencia, Bayern Munchen, PSV... |
Author: Kaiser
Date: 23-04-2007, 13:05
| Don't forget about Milan. I suppose it'll lose its positions, don't you? |
Author: badgerboy
Date: 23-04-2007, 13:49
| "Don't forget about Milan. I suppose it'll lose its positions, don't you?"
No. 4th & an "easy" 4th. 6 points ahead of the next teams & pulling away. Only Fiorentina might have caught them - but after losing to Parma last week - no chance. |
Author: Lyonnais
Date: 23-04-2007, 14:07
| does anybody know which of Valencia or Zaragoza would advance to CL in case of a tie? I presume that this is based on head-to-head games but I don't know the results. |
Author: badgerboy
Date: 23-04-2007, 14:23
| The two teams still have to play at the Mestalla on 13 May. Valencia won in Zaragoza though - so have an advantage. And they appear to have a much easier run in than Zaragoza.
Personally, I wouldn't count Atletico out of the running. Although thedy definitely wont want to have to rely on head-to-heads. They lost both games against Zaragoza AND Valencia. |
Author: azfanforever
Date: 23-04-2007, 14:34
| back to holland again To Ricardo: it is bad az will play champions league?, i think at the moment they're the best team in holland, and next season they can only become better (average age of about 22). i have to admit, quarter final showed bad play, but don't think it's fair to judge a team on one game. do you also think psv isn't strong enough for cl because of their game against liverpool?, that's the way you're judging now.
but well, about who's getting the direct cl access. i think for ajax it's possible to close the 6 goal gap, willem II, nothing to play for, not even money and they're a team you can score many goals against. but hopefully we will clinch the title. |
Author: blue_shark
Date: 25-04-2007, 15:47
| i know some would say "those romanians think they are the best". not at all. but i realized something that is quite surprizing for me. now that roamnia has been awarded another IC spot, all teams (maybe except dinamo) have something to fight. cfr, rapid, steaua and (whay not?) gloria fight for the 2nd place. poli timisoara hasn't qualified for UC yet, so they have to grab that 4th spot to be sure, although 10 points might seem to many. anyway they have to fight for a IC spot. so there are 6 teams battling for the 6th place. now we have to be realistic and say that probably gloria has no interest in finishing 2nd, poli iasi has financial difficulties so thay would be out of the IC fight. meanwhile at bottom of the table jiul and national try to make 25 points, while other 5 teams fight to avoid the 2 relegation spots. what i was trying to say is that the finish is going to be very tight. and i don't see this for many other leagues (not to say "none") that have 8 european spots instead of 6. |
Author: moro
Date: 25-04-2007, 17:06
| @blue-shark "i know some would say "those romanians think they are the best". not at all".
bad attitude, man. Yes we are, we are the best. Urziceni vs Galati looks like MU-Milan, it's only a matter of number of bottles of bier. |
Author: MalcolmW
Date: 25-04-2007, 18:16
| In England numbers 1 and 2 are fighting for the title, both are assured of CLGS for next season. Numbers 3 and 4 are assured of CLQ3 next season (and Liverpool are still involved in CL now). Numbers 5 to 13 are fighting for 3 UC and 1 IT place. And numbers 14 to 20 are fighting against relegation (though 14, Middlesbrough are almost safe). Strictly numbers 12 and 13 (Newcastle and ManCity) could yet be relegated but are hardly in the mix, each needing 1 point from 3 matches for absolute safety. |
Author: moro
Date: 26-04-2007, 16:42
| So, Steaua Bucarest is back only 3 points behind CFR Cluj; at this moment (just before half-time) Rapid had 1-0 at Bistrita, but while I'm writing, it's 1-1, so they are 5 points behind CFR. There's still 6 games to play, from wich CFR-Rapid and Dinamo-CFR. Steaua appears in good position to grab the CL spot. |
Author: dinamo_fan_4_ever
Date: 26-04-2007, 18:06
| and ended 3-3. again rapid lost 2 points with stupidity. disaster keapers in coman's absence. and cfr cluj as many have said doesnt play so good against top teams, rapid, dinamo, gloria, otelul still to come.
cfr 2nd, -3 steaua, -5 rapid.
the good part is that dinamo seems to have won 1 pt. after all |
Author: moro
Date: 26-04-2007, 18:59
| Dinamo will kiss the trophy sunday (if CFR draw at Arges). |
Author: Ricardo
Date: 27-04-2007, 09:57
| Bremen's loss might be good news for Holland. Bremen is on the edge of overtaking AZ and Ajax in the teamranking. They are alson on the edge of getting into CL pot B. With currently Valencia and Bayern not in CL(PSV also not, but they are replaced by Ajax/AZ) Bremen is currently nr 16. Might Valencia get back in the Spanish top 4 (not unlikely) then Bremen is the first to fall back to pot C(to be together with Schalke and Stuttgart in a 'German' pot?).
However a 3-0 victory gives Espanyol the chance to sit back. A small victory (2-0 3-1) by Bremen is possible, so more likely to happen(Bremen is not that bad) That would already mean they pass AZ and that wil make AZ be the first to drop to pot C, might Valencia come back(I don't count on Bayern anymore, 5 points in 4 matches is not easy to lose - though PSV knows how to do that ) |
Author: putzeijs
Date: 27-04-2007, 13:43
| News from Belgium mayby slightly off topic?
The coach from 5th placed Charlerloi, will coach Club Brugge (6th) next year. Both teams are in contest for a possible IT spot next year. Where will the motivation for this man be for the next 3 games?? For his actual team (problems with president) or for his next team? |
Author: dinamo_fan_4_ever
Date: 27-04-2007, 19:13
| he should play the last games 200% and qualify charleroi in europe and than go to bruges and get a better check and try to do the same thing. |
Author: moro
Date: 28-04-2007, 23:03
| Interresting news (from www.gsp.ro - on of 2 big sport-journals in Ro), CFR Cluj dismissed 4 players (all romanians) because they are suspected about selling last game against Steaua. |
Author: ikoon
Date: 29-04-2007, 00:09
| Nonsense. This is just a a way to get rid of weak players and also to find excuses for the team weak evolution. In top countries, where the clubs are preocupated by their own image, such evasive accusations would be confronted in court. But not in Romania, that's why we will never be top.
I really fail to see the point of bringing this kind of "news" in this topic. Why is so interesting about it? Almost every small romanian team, when looses, to the long list of excuses: subjective refferees, bad luck, injured and suspended players, they add also "X player didn't play so well, i think that may be something wrong, i suspect something...". If you start to quote here romanian "press", and in this case what is cleary a provocative title (no kind of details or aditional information), than i think that those who complain about romanian posts have really a point. |
Author: moro
Date: 29-04-2007, 16:02
| Nice thriller in Holland this afternoon. |
Author: moro
Date: 29-04-2007, 16:06
| Well Ikoon, I think only Steaua's fans found thid info stupid, lie, aberation, without interest, etc. What I find interresting is that the collegues of those 4 guys didnt support them (strike or something like that) if they're not guilty. For the rest, of course there will be no proof to that, like from 1980 to this day. |
Author: Dragonite
Date: 29-04-2007, 16:38
| PSV won the Dutch League.
Ajax (2nd), AZ (3rd), FC Twente (4th) and Heerenveen (5th) will fight for the other CL spot.
Feyenoord finished 7th, after losing 5-1 against Heerenveen! |
Author: Floridian
Date: 29-04-2007, 16:44
| Dutch league somehow ended with what majority would have called "expected" rankings a month ago , at least regarding the first place. |
Author: ikoon
Date: 30-04-2007, 01:08
| @moro,
There are more "news" in romanian "press". Don't let the job half done. Tell us about 3 Arges players suspectet of selling the match to CLuj. Also you may want to present the 4 Cluj player side, because as you said you are no team's fan and objective all the way. |
Author: Pedro
Date: 30-04-2007, 03:04
| Congratulations to PSV! Despite that stain coach called Koeman, who did everything to lose the league,they managed to be champions. They must be a great team indeed! Where was Stan Valx's head when he hired him? |
Author: cosmin_ultrasteaua
Date: 30-04-2007, 12:25
| moro, this is incredible. The press said we think or we suspect and that is as good as evidence in my opinion. |
Author: noppenaaldhakken
Date: 30-04-2007, 13:21
Edited by: noppenaaldhakken at: 30-04-2007, 13:23 | Wow, that must have been the most thrilling end of a season in recent worldwide soccer history (does anybody know other examples?). The virtual title shifted 6 times (AZ from the getgo, PSV after the 1-0 Alex goal in '8, Ajax after the 0-1 Emanuelson goal in '19, PSV after the 4-1 by Farfan in '65, Ajax again after the 2-0 by Huntelaar in '68 and finally the 5-1 for PSV by no-one other than Philip Cocu in '77) and this overview doesn't even show that any extra goal by AZ before the 90th minute would have placed them in pole position. Not even Hitchcock could have come up with a plot like this. Ajax, AZ and PSV. Thank you for a fantastic afternoon! This was soccer heaven. |
Author: moro
Date: 30-04-2007, 13:34
| Ikoon, I'll suspect Steaua's, Rapid's and Dinamo's boss to try making arrangements until the end of their life. It's in their nature. F.e. I suspect the ref of Bistrita-Rapid was bribed, because there were some very important decisions he took against Bistrita, better said in favour of Rapid (like the fault as last defender that Sapunaru did at 16m, wich the ref certainly saw, because he was 5m far from them - no red card, no penalty or free-kick). I didnt specially followed the 4 Cluj players, but as I said, I would not be surprised if the news was true. And I can tell you that if my boss would fire two of my collegues without any reason, I'd leave. Dont know a thing about "4 players position", I'd appreciate a link. I dont understand why you take it so hard and why you're angry about me sharing this news with other people on this forum. I think it's interresting. About 3 Arges players fired, I dont care, it's accesorial. |
Author: moro
Date: 30-04-2007, 13:40
| @cosmin_ultrasteaua The press also presented since 1996 hundreds of cases of obvious high-level corruption, but never proved because all well-done. The press only present a news where the president of a transilvanian club fired four of the few romanian players (and you know how proud transilvanians are when it comes about patriotism), wich bring this team on the top of Romanian Liga. Either the boss is stupid or mentally sick, or he's right. Both to be dicussed. |
Author: ikoon
Date: 30-04-2007, 13:43
| http://www.gsp.ro/index.php?a=80119&shift=1 |
Author: moro
Date: 30-04-2007, 13:48
| And here's the last "maybe" on www.gsp.ro - Steaua's boss dismissed the club-president Stoica because he informed Cluj boss about bribing the 4 players. Difficult to understand why he did that. |
Author: ikoon
Date: 30-04-2007, 13:51
Edited by: ikoon at: 30-04-2007, 14:01 | And here's also, what the "press" suspected to be a tentative of Cluj to buy the game between FC Arges:
http://www.prosport.ro/index.php?section=articole&screen=index&id=38155
And here's the last "maybe" on www.gsp.ro - Steaua's boss dismissed the club-president Stoica because he informed Cluj boss about bribing the 4 players. Difficult to understand why he did that.
yes ... LOL. Who said that? Tolontan? I assure than neither MM or Gigi Becali give such a declaration. This is purely "press" speculation, like everything else. Mihai Stoica resign from Steaua, nobody dissmiss him.
What you wintenss in romanian press, is not worth taking for good. I never seen something objective in ages. To each end of chambionship the "press" go wild, nuts, they accuse everyoane of everything. Last year they question Steaua's win in Vaslui, because of Vaslui president was upset and said that he will withdraw, although Steaua came after a UC semi-final and the next season go in CLGS. Look to CFR that they play even worts in Arges, they cannot perform under pressure and agaisnt top teams; top teams always play like that. Let the matches speak for themself, and the european results if you wish, but never the "press". The romanian "press" stinks. |
Author: moro
Date: 30-04-2007, 13:53
| Yes, ty, and I found the opinion of 4 players involved in Steaua-CFR - here: http://www.gsp.ro/index.php?a=80119&shift=1 |
Author: cosmin_ultrasteaua
Date: 30-04-2007, 14:02
| moro, the last "maybe" is the most stupid thing I heard. MM was going to resign BEFORE the CFR game. They only made it official yesterday so not to cause problems before an important match. The reasons where different. The Romanian press is political commanded. Cant you see that? And they have the nerve to talk about morality. What a joke. |
Author: moro
Date: 30-04-2007, 14:17
| Romanian press is partially politicised, and the coruption is obvious, no need to prove it. You just gave the explanation why Stoica informed CFR's boss about bribing. Because he was fired or in instance to be. Cant believe you think our top-teams are so candid. |
Author: ikoon
Date: 30-04-2007, 14:18
Edited by: ikoon at: 30-04-2007, 14:20 | The romanian press is in open war with Steaua's leadership for about 3 years now. They have different conflicts with Gigi Becali and Mihai Stoica because he and the coaches are ressponsible for like 3 "silenzio spampa" in the last 2 years, with major effects in their newspapper sellings. This is the "press" saying "we will get back at you!", more of a vendetta with already victims like Valter Zenga, Carlos Fernandes or the latest Mihai Stoica.
Apart from this personal fight, the romanian "press" exibits in general attack to every team and persone in romanian football and poor quality jurnalism. The same poor speculation, "reliable sources". The only way a football persone can recive some apreciation is post-mortem. |
Author: ikoon
Date: 30-04-2007, 14:29
| You just gave the explanation why Stoica informed CFR's boss about bribing. Because he was fired or in instance to be.
Damn! On the other hand, forget what i said. Keep reading and beliving everything you read in our fairly-competent sportive press. Does good for some people.
For what is a forum than to throw mud on everyone you don't like?
I'm a Steaua fan, and i never used this forum to destroy the image of the romanians teams i hate. Why to expect something different from a "objective" fan? |
Author: moro
Date: 30-04-2007, 14:33
| To me, the only way to find some information, is to suspect it, then try to find out if it's true. Sometimes it's just impossible. The local press has low-quality. however, gsp and prosport are goog journals, driven by honest people. Not the same thing you can say about club-presidents billionairs raising mouttons, selling cakes or I dont know what else. Or League penal-president.
I think we should stop it here, otherwise it risks to turn into colours. This is not anti-Steaua war. However, it would be nice to chill out when someone dears to criticise or suspect your favourite team. Because he might be right, you never know. |
Author: ikoon
Date: 30-04-2007, 14:40
Edited by: ikoon at: 30-04-2007, 14:48 | What happens if 20-30 italian fans came and spread rumors about the "match-fixing" in Seria A, and about Gazeta Delo Sport titles and news. We had just a single topic, when the italian teams were already at trial, and that more to excuse their actions.
Bert, there is a way to make a "comment-control"? For those comments that damage the image of some teams-peoples with acusations incriminated by the penal law, but offer no evidence back-up?
Or if not, then i can accuse any club i want? From Romania and Spain, Italy, etc.?
PS: Can i throw some light insults to overgame for example wihout getting a ban. For example he calls someone "Are you drunk?". I guess those "light insults" are allowed as i never see a warning ? |
Author: Spru3
Date: 30-04-2007, 14:41
| the same gazeta sporturilor wrote yesterday that CFR Cluj bribed 3 players from FC Arges, why did u omitted this? |
Author: ikoon
Date: 30-04-2007, 14:46
Edited by: ikoon at: 30-04-2007, 14:58 | the same gazeta sporturilor wrote yesterday that CFR Cluj bribed 3 players from FC Arges, why did u omitted this?
As no other relatated "news" from the hundreds only this season? From here the whole disscusion. |
Author: cosmin_ultrasteaua
Date: 30-04-2007, 14:48
Edited by: cosmin_ultrasteaua at: 30-04-2007, 14:51 | moro, you had me at "driven by honest people". Honest people like Vioculescu? O yeah, and Stoica wasn't kick out, HE RESIGN. |
Author: bert.kassies
Date: 30-04-2007, 17:27
| ikoon, take it easy. We don't believe everything that's written on this forum, nor in the Romanian press, nor by the media in other countries. Rumours are welcome here. No need to write the truth.
But insults and strong language are not welcome. In fact, insults are the only reason why some users have been banned from this forum in the past. |
Author: Kaiser
Date: 30-04-2007, 17:45
| In fact, insults are the only reason why some users have been banned from this forum in the past.
I know it |
Author: ikoon
Date: 30-04-2007, 18:04
Edited by: ikoon at: 30-04-2007, 18:09 | Author: Overgame Date: 29-04-2007, 23:20
niti_rapid : are you drunk, or what ?
Author: Overgame Date: 29-04-2007, 21:41
Now, he's doing long posts to say exactly the same shit than before.
So this can be interpreted like insult or not? Or it can be used to describe a person which you do not agree with freely, no ban, no warning? |
Author: Kaiser
Date: 30-04-2007, 18:16
Edited by: Kaiser at: 30-04-2007, 18:31 | Author: ikoon Date: 23-04-2007, 12:56
There is another forum more fit to your infantile comments. And please try to finish second grade this time.
How do you like it, Bert? Maybe ikoon wants to be banned, a? |
Author: ikoon
Date: 30-04-2007, 18:34
Edited by: ikoon at: 30-04-2007, 18:42 | @Kaiser,
So these are not infantile comments?
Maybe he'll even open diversity fan club... but nobody would even visit it...
Why words? They are really funny of you funny guy, as Dragonite mentioned. You can, CAN become an UEFA president and change its format. You can also give the automatical spot for Steaua or even send it to final. Why not?
ikoon, where did you fall to?
What age can someone have, if this is all that he can come up with in a serious discussion about coefficients, spots or formats? |
Author: Kaiser
Date: 30-04-2007, 18:49
| Ans what age can a person be to say all the time:
'Diversity - our world!' 'I'm diversity president!' 'I want you to love diversity!' 'Diversity is myself, my skin, my heart, my name!'
Do you think we are not tired of this? Do you think you can make me to love your ideas? Do you think I see a chieftain in yourself?
NO |
Author: moro
Date: 30-04-2007, 18:52
| First of all, GSP didnt write "Steaua bribed this or that", they just related the news that CFR Cluj's boss dismissed 4 players. The other news, that Arges boss dimissed 3 other players. Both presidents said they fired them because they were involved in this dirty thing. GSP and PS made no comments until now! So Ikoon if you accuse someone spreading mud, that'll be me, no way to accuse GSP or Prosport. I'm even angry they dont develop this and maybe prove something. Or maybe they make researches right now. I would like a big scandal in romanian soccer, I'd like to see 4-5 teams in Serie B, because this is the only way (in my opinion) to get rib of those communists, thiefs, securists (sometimes all 3 adjectives in one person) running some of our clubs. And see Urziceni playing Champions League. No doubt, there's much proper football in Romania, but the presidents are'nt beyond doubt and every year we're all seeing arrangements in every game.
Cosmin-ultra, I was thinking about chief-redactors and their teams, not owners of those journals. Of course, they're humans, they can have feelings. |
Author: moro
Date: 30-04-2007, 18:56
| Bert, not that I'm missing them, but what happend to Pedro, Porra, Porto 1978? Were they punished or just ended season same time with Benfica? |
Author: Kaiser
Date: 30-04-2007, 19:06
Edited by: Kaiser at: 30-04-2007, 19:07 | Porto 1978 -> ikoon
Author: porto-1978 Date: 23-04-2007, 00:05
...
ikoon, "France, Germany and Portugal (who are also no saints, sorry)." What does it means? That it?s enough that Romania some day end up in coeff top6 ranking to convert themselves froom saints into devils of what you call a dictatorship!?
"portuguese, please stop victimising yourself"
Good laugh with this one, thanks! Do you see any portuguese user of this forum complainting about the state of things, the rules and the lack of diversity of nations with clubs present in highr stages?? What nationality are you and other protesting people that usually show to have bad feelings about UEFA competitions format?... You just need to read the title to see who feels to be victim here. Fortunly by yhe time portuguese don?t need to feel victim, just see the results. I confess some victimising way of thinking passed by Portugal in the 90?s - it was difficult the adaptation to the quick changes in football and society by that time. Protesting and blaming the others and the system Portugal was going to fall but then a new positive mentality emerged, gave results and now i really hope (at least in football) that in my country the victimising mentality never return again even during crisis in results. When things go bad we should look to ourselves and to the good examples and improve, not blame and play victim role.
Instead of victimising, if i have some protest in my last post was the one against the inclusion of Potugal in that top6 or the concept of it (as transitory...) I just said that putted in a completly different way this could be a good topic to compare results previous or after the format changes. And when that topic is discussed Portugal can surely be seen as a good example of a country that got cups, finals, semifinals and quarter finals even after 2000, by 4 different clubs. If you see that before, in the mid-late 90?s, the better Portugal did were QFs and always by FCPorto, you understand that many countries (that are now in semi or deep crisis) are in position to follow the example or at least learn with it.
But if you start the topic by excluding Portugal from the possible good examples and put it in the group of rich countries (dictators???) we can?t see the great portuguese achievements but instead expected results (were they?? i bet not, i still remember how general europeans saw portuguese football in the century transition).
So in my view this is is a bad topic about a god subject. It could worth the time but this way is a waste of it.
It was the main thing against porto - i couldn't find more... |
Author: ikoon
Date: 30-04-2007, 20:57
| @moro,
I would like a big scandal in romanian soccer, I'd like to see 4-5 teams in Serie B, because this is the only way (in my opinion) to get rib of those communists, thiefs, securists (sometimes all 3 adjectives in one person) running some of our clubs. And see Urziceni playing Champions League. No doubt, there's much proper football in Romania, but the presidents are'nt beyond doubt and every year we're all seeing arrangements in every game.
I wish to see all teams found guilty punished, relegated and not just for "UEFA eyes" like in Italy, but a suspention of 5-10 years from any european competition and also 5-10 years penality to not allow promotion in Liga 1, so not 4-5 team which i don't like, or better said which are not in very good relations with romanian "press".
If there are matches fixed in Liga 1, there are between small teams, to avoid relegation, where the press don't care, the fans again don't care, those games are never highly mediatisated, not at the top. At the top are just speculation, political attacks, personal vendetta, psichological warfare, newsppaers incompetence and lack of subjects. By the way for you information, every "important persone" from romanian football has the phone lisened, even without special mandate from General Parchet. To try to buy 4 players is a suicidal act, almost half a team. To try to buy every match few players this is paranoia. One will snitch for sure and obtain juridical protection.
I tell you the romanian "press" in sportive matters, is a instrument of disinformation. Unfortunately the image of some teams and clubs have to suffer for this; some people belive, even spread fake rumors. It's not fair, to destroy in this way other people work and investments. Apparenty the best investment a club can make in Romania is in a newspapper or in just few reporters.
But maby, once with the rising of Romania in rankings, not because of investments (but as you say 'cos of buying games), some other romanian clubs will go in UC and beat everyone, to proove the newsppaers point. |
Author: dinamo_fan_4_ever
Date: 30-04-2007, 22:29
| about romania liga 1:
5 matches/team to go and we know:
champions: dinamo relegated: cehlaul, arges pitesti, jiul & fc national uefa cup: steaua, rapid, cfr or poli timisoara. IT (2teams): bistrita, poli timisoara or galati
other teams: urziceni, pandurii, vaslui, iasi,craiova, farul, uta
HOW IS THIS FORMAT (18 teams), BETTER THAN THE LAST ONE (16 teams) ?
there are 5 matches/team left and there will be a lot of fixed matches, fixed or played without interest. |
Author: moro
Date: 30-04-2007, 22:44
| Funny thing is that if relegation was for 3 teams, the fight was more interresting. Same thing in France this year. Maybe this is the solution.
For next season, where 6 teams will go in European Cups, plus IT (so 9-10 teams to battle), plus 3-4 to fight for relegation (5-6 to battle), it could be more interresting. Especially if the future champion wont kill the title before Christmas... |
Author: cosmin_ultrasteaua
Date: 01-05-2007, 00:27
| moro, read this and then tell me Tolontan is an honest, objective chef-editor.
http://www.tolo.ro/2007/04/30/singuri-impotriva-vintului/
About relegation I think a play-off will be better. 2 teams to go directly to Liga 2 and the next 2 to a play-off. |
Author: ikoon
Date: 01-05-2007, 01:15
| Yeah right Tolontan and objectivity! And this is the chief editor to one of the main nespappers, Gazeta Sporturilor.
In this "editorial" for example he instigate George Copos and Rapid to fix matches.
He starts with: "While Gigi Becali (Steaua's investor) is fixing even the match observators..."
- this frustrated indidividual, apparently knows about a indicment that we don't, as he makes an accustation that if prooven right mneans a sanction against person freedom, stated in the romanian penal law. His intention is not to proove anything, but to mentain the paranoia that Steaua means match fixing (by repeating the same thing in every editorial). This is also o infraction stated in the romanian Penal Law Code (when accuse someone of a infraction, but fail to present proof).
then he continues the paranoia, calomnies and instigations:
"While Steaua is using the money with determination and even agresivity, Rapid is content with the statute of victim. Nobody is asking Copos (the main investor from Rapid) to use ocult methods. BUT he at least should have try to assure a constant protection to his team..." - the aberation continue.
This is what a journalist considerated in Romania "top", write every day, in the same note like all the redactors from the big nesppapers. |
Author: Edgar
Date: 01-05-2007, 07:24
| Can we all move along now? I don't see what Tolontan has to do with this topic. Stop hijacking threads for Pete's sake. No wonder other users cringe when they see yet another Romanian topic. |
Author: moro
Date: 01-05-2007, 12:36
| What do you want, Edgar, use a 200 words vocabulary for a thread? This thing, with stealing threads, makes me laugh, wich is a good thing, ty. Relax man, we're talking football here, we're not in the court of law. |
Author: moro
Date: 01-05-2007, 12:42
Edited by: moro at: 01-05-2007, 12:55 | Cosmin, I read the article, seems good one to me. Of course, it's disturbing, since it attacks your team.
Now here what Steaua's boss said about next game, against Urziceni: "Dacă aș ști sigur că batem, aș da și un milion de dolari! E ultimul meci greu pe care-l mai avem pînă la final. Dar mă tem de lege să fac asta. Să cumpăr meciul n-ar fi tot una cu a fura, pentru că eu nu dau bani la arbitri, asta nu fac niciodată! Să presupunem că am cumpărat un meci acum. Nu m-ar mustra conștiința, pentru că ar însemna doar să-mi iau înapoi ceea ce mi-au furat alții!".
In english: "If I'd know for sure we'll winn, I'd give one million dollars! It's our last difficult game until the end of the season. But I'm afraid of the law. Buying the game is not the same thing with stealing, because I dont bribe refferees, I'll never do that! Let's suppose I bought a game now. I would have no hard feelings, because this means just to get me back what other stealed from me!"
That is not bad translation, just his words. |
Author: cosmin_ultrasteaua
Date: 01-05-2007, 13:04
| moro, do you think Becali is an idiot? Who in hell says that he will buy a game(on national television) and then does it. Becali likes to be the center of attention and says a lot a stupid thing to do that. |
Author: blue_shark
Date: 01-05-2007, 13:44
| cosmin that's the idea. it's reversed psychology. nobody believes he would buy the game and then he does it. |
Author: moro
Date: 01-05-2007, 13:57
Edited by: moro at: 01-05-2007, 13:59 | Becali is not clever. This is a fact. Remember what happend about the triple change Becali-ProTV-and I dont know what society - when he admitted that he was promoted on ProTV in exchange of some money the third part dues him... at the end of the discussion he realised he was an idiot saying that. He's the excellent example of romanian newer class of recently-rich people, with 4 years of school behind ( maybe 6 at max). Honestly, I dont know if he bought those players or not, the fact is that Cluj felt the betrayal and act in consequence. As far as I'm concerned, the only championship I'll be confident to be correct, it'll be the one where Romania will have 3 spots for CL. So two years from now. Until then, the presidents are too greaves to let go.
Even in Holland I'm wondering if things were OK. I saw Willlem players very happy about losing 0-2 against Ajax - what does it means? PSV promised advantages to this team to end 0-2? Why? Because PSV knew they'll gonna win +4? It's a bit confusing. French comments on Everton-MU said the 3 big errors Everton defenders and gk did, were suspect; that Gary Neville played long years for MU, he scored an own goal that match....
Guess beeing suspicious is normal. |
Author: badgerboy
Date: 01-05-2007, 14:31
| "Even in Holland I'm wondering if things were OK. I saw Willlem players very happy about losing 0-2 against Ajax - what does it means? PSV promised advantages to this team to end 0-2? Why? Because PSV knew they'll gonna win +4? It's a bit confusing. French comments on Everton-MU said the 3 big errors Everton defenders and gk did, were suspect; that Gary Neville played long years for MU, he scored an own goal that match....
Guess beeing suspicious is normal."
This is where I start to love the "Romanian culture of suspicion" & it shows the difference between the English & Romanians. We accept that referees & players all make mistakes - & they in no way suggest someone has been paid to ensure a certain outcome.
Why did Willem II look happy? I have no idea. Presumably because they are safe from relegation - though that was known before the last weekend. Maybe keeping Ajax to just two goals was an achievement for them? Maybe they were just happy their season was over?
As for Everton-Man Utd. If England was Romania - which thankfully it isn't wouldn't Abramovich have been willing to pay more than Glazer for Everton to keep their two goal lead once they had it? In truth Everton had a rookie keeper - ironically Tim Howard couldn't play as he is on loan from United - & his mistake let United back into the game. There was more irony in Phil Neville being the one to score the own goal but in truth United dominated after the Fernandes goal & it was their fighting spirit that turned the game around. |
Author: ikoon
Date: 01-05-2007, 14:44
| @moro,
Edgar has a point. We can discuss further on the second forum, romanian league thread, whithout bothering anyone here with this non-sense.
https://kassiesa.net/uefa//forum2/viewtopic.php?t=263&start=285
There is nothing new to it, no fantastic news. Steaua is always attacked, because the press in not generaly happy because one club has over 60% of romanian fans preffferences and they wish like those percents to more equal between 3-4 romanian teams, along with other questionable reasons. The word that is missing always is proof. There is no point in debating pro and against, when without proof there is no valid accusation, but always a valid defence. If you think that we are Steaua's fans and we are subjective, by opposing to a journalist like Tolontan, then go and tell that to judge in court when he ask to sustain your accusations with proof, that he is subjective, and that all the accusation should be prooved by what newspappers suspect.
If you belive that a article, in which Tolontan instigate Rapid owner to make "constant protection for his team" is GOOD, then oviously we don't have more to discuss about this subject. I let you to meditate to your objectivity. Cheers. |
Author: moro
Date: 01-05-2007, 15:54
| Badgerboy Good one, that with the culture. About Everton - MU - I was talking about french comments (on TPS star - where I watched the game). Latins also... |
Author: ikoon
Date: 01-05-2007, 16:23
Edited by: ikoon at: 01-05-2007, 16:24 | @badgerboy,moro
There is nothing wrong to being suspicious. But there is a difference between suspicious and paranoia.
When you are just suspicous, you don't came and tell that X team should be relegated because you suspect things, or because a subjective reporter says so.
That's why is called "suspicion" different from fact or even assumption.
I think that Lyon winning the 6 consecutive title ion France is a bit suspicious, moro, don't u think? Steaua is far from this performance in Romania, and in your place i'll suspect more Lyon, and a lot of victories there no? how came? isn't a bit strange? A championship so valuable like the french one, and so little competivity? Isn't Lyon the far richer club in France? |
Author: moro
Date: 01-05-2007, 18:35
| Ikoon, I dont think you should start talking about paranoia.
Lyon is the best team in Europe at this moment; they just had their bad moment in spring; but the team you saw in autumn now is unbeatable. There's some bad luck following Lyon from few years, like losing against PSV because of the ref (penalty not awarded in ET), against AC Milan three minutes from the end, now the "bad month". Maybe this is happening to others teams. There's Lyon, and somewhere 20 points behind, other teams fighting for Europe, like every year. The ranking shows the real situation. |
Author: ikoon
Date: 02-05-2007, 14:24
| @moro,
http://www.prosport.ro/index.php?section=articole&screen=index&id=38426 |
Author: moro
Date: 04-05-2007, 18:43
Edited by: moro at: 04-05-2007, 18:57 | Since I opened the subject, must go on. CFR Cluj's boss took back his 4 players and his accusations. Now he says he had some fake informations about them and he regrets the decision to fire them. So they're back with CFR. Just joking, tomorrow another important match, against Rapid - maybe there's some kind of special affer like " buy 2 games, pay one" or someting like that |
Author: Lupta_Steaua
Date: 04-05-2007, 19:42
| moro,
You are right about the fact that you openned the meaningless discusion about buying games. You would have also been right, if you closed the subject. A "must go on" is surely wrong in this case.
About the other phrase you said: "buy 2, pay 1", I am not really sure I get your point. We can analyze here all 3 teams involved. So, let's say Steaua wanted to buy the games. Surely they would need to win the direct encounter. But now? what should Steaua's expectations be? probably a draw. how can you buy that by involving just one team? Rapid: clearly they where happy with Steaua's win. Now they get their chance. surely it would look like the most interested team at the moment. But I never would think that Rapid pays another team to lose against Steaua. Cluj: economically speaking, what are you selling? a potential spot in the CL? Unclear whether it will be or not, same with UC. How do you price it? In Romanian, we do have a saying "It is better to have the sparrow in your hands, than the crow on the fence". But, is this what they would have been thinking?...
Too bad that we have a mass-media, which writes before thinking. |
Author: moro
Date: 04-05-2007, 20:16
| It's unbelievable how you guys live your life (the part involved in football) claiming your team inocence, hoping only white money circulating in romanian football. I dont know if this is funny, ridiculous or dramatic. Hellooooooooooo! Romania's ch-ship was the second most dirty ch-ship in the world (I'm sure somewhere was another one to beat us...) - it changed a lot lately, but how can you proclame absolute healing from this cancer! There's no cure for (most of) cancers, certainly not when current presidents of top clubs are in!!!!
And you, Lupta_steaua, must be a very, very funny guy because somehow you've got the impression I hoped Steaua will pay CFR to lose against Rapid... I was reffering to those adverts. "2 in 1".
How do you feel about the campain of Steaua's boss, praying at tv and in papers Urziceni's trainer and players to let go the game? Are you proud of this attitude? Is this conform with your hopes and emotions at the side of a big team ? |
Author: ikoon
Date: 04-05-2007, 20:29
Edited by: ikoon at: 04-05-2007, 20:47 | moro,
CFR Cluj's boss took back ... his accusations.
Disinformation. There weren't any accusation. The press interpreted the whole situation, to look conveniant to them, to provoke another scandal. No official from CFR Cluj, made such accusations, or else he will be responsible and suited right now. Only the press have in Romania "free law pass".
It's unbelievable how you guys live your life (the part involved in football) claiming your team inocence, hoping only white money circulating in romanian football. I dont know if this is funny, ridiculous or dramatic.
What is funny, ridiculous or dramatic, the fact that the law work on the innocence presumption, untill prooven guity? Or maby you will find less ridiculous or dramatic to start accusing everyone and presuming guilty, until they can proove their innocence.
I don't know from what country you left, but i doubt that is the same anymore. You only throw mud on everyone and say that Romania is some kind of jungle. Well we had to make some serious changes in order to join UE, from which most regarding legislation, coruption control. Of course no one can't eradicate 100% coruption, but it can be limited.
How do you feel about the campain of Steaua's boss, praying at tv and in papers Urziceni's trainer and players to let go the game? Are you proud of this attitude? Is this conform with your hopes and emotions at the side of a big team ?
Proud no, but this don't look like anythinelse than a humour tentative, unless you suggest that nowadays the maches are buyed on TV. I tell you what it is, it's sarcasm to the reporters that suggest that Steaua buy every game, now when won few games, and probably before, when they lost, they sell every game no?
If you ask if i'm proud, then no. I'd preffer the journalist suited and to respond for their subjective and infractional writhing. But Becali has other plans, political ambitions, and he will never suit a newsppaper to put all the press agains him. Bad situation. But this do not mean that now everyone can came and quote all the aberation from romanian press, which is clear a subjective thing, part of the last 3 years anti-Steaua campaign, no proofs, no sursces, no logic behind all the press garabage. |
Author: noppenaaldhakken
Date: 04-05-2007, 21:48
| Badgerboy you said: "Even in Holland I'm wondering if things were OK. I saw Willlem players very happy about losing 0-2 against Ajax - what does it means? PSV promised advantages to this team to end 0-2? Why? Because PSV knew they'll gonna win +4? It's a bit confusing. Why did Willem II look happy? I have no idea. Presumably because they are safe from relegation - though that was known before the last weekend. Maybe keeping Ajax to just two goals was an achievement for them? Maybe they were just happy their season was over?" Here is nothing suspicious going on. Willem II is from Tilburg in Brabant, PSV is from Eindhoven also in Brabant. Teams from outside the "Randstad" (Area between the cities Amsterdam, The Hague, Rotterdam and Utrecht) have a aversion for teams from the Randstad. The Willem II fans were shouting "Boeruh, boeruh .." which is sort of a "slogan/yell" by PSV fans. They rather see local big brother PSV win the championship than Ajax. Besides they lost 6-0 in the Arena. A 0-2 defeat at home could be looked upon as a serious improvement. Just to ease your pondering mind. |
Author: moro
Date: 04-05-2007, 21:50
| Ikoon you said "I don't know from what country you left, but i doubt that is the same anymore. You only throw mud on everyone and say that Romania is some kind of jungle."
I hope you'll not gonna sell me the "I stayed here in misery and helped the country to rise, while you left for money"... the old communist stuff. My friends, my family is there and I see them more often than they see each other there. I'm not throwing mud, stop telling that, because 3/4 of football fans in OUR country think like I do, that every game is to be suspected, at the point the "innocent presomption" is reversed (OK, this isnt normal) and we almost feel the need to have the proof that a game was corectly played. You're there now, you see what "law" means in this country right these days, with that ridiculous mascarade of democracy that the Parliament does. My regret in all this discussion we have is that you and others Steaua fans keep screaming about "press beeing imoral, corrupt and lier", while in this particular case the press I read was incredibly correct, relating the news that CFR dismissed 4 players suspected to be sold the match". It was a news about something Cluj did. As far as I'm concerned, when I'll see the last team relegated three games before the end, beating the first ranked in the last round, to offer the title to second ranked (or similar situation at the bottom of ranking), I'll change my mind about pure-romanian-football. Untill then, allow me to express my opinions and discuss news with whoever I want. Of course, you can debate this. With calm. And when you say Cluj never said the players werent dismissed for coruption, check it twice. Today Muresan Iuliu said "the decision was wrong because they (staff) were subject to an action of destabilisation". Dont forget last year Cluj sold or gave the match to Rapid, they arent candid.... |
Author: moro
Date: 04-05-2007, 21:54
| @Noppenn... In fact I said the first phrase, Badgerboy the rest? And ty for explanation, it clears a lot. Was there anything else about the ref who was filmed earlier in the season beeing happy when Ajax (or PSV, I dont know anymore) scored a third goal in a game? There were rumours... betting...??? |
Author: cosmin_ultrasteaua
Date: 05-05-2007, 00:24
| moro, what correct press are you talking about? Let's take one example. Tolontan (chef editor for Gazeta Sporturilor) said that it's normal for the Dinamo fans to be happy after Steaua lost to M'Boro. Note that Dinamo fans when to the streets chanting I Love You Boro. Now he says that it's not normal that Steaua fans are happy about Dinamo having to play QR. Note that we didn't do anything but a few jokes on the Gazeta forum. Is that the fair and correct press you where talking about? About the CFR game: it's incredible that you still think it was something wrong there. But you are right with one thing: Becali is an idiot. He's doing more harm for Steaua then good. I'm scared that he's the second person the romanians thrust after Basescu. |
Author: panda
Date: 05-05-2007, 10:44
| Surely this kind of argument runs in every country.
Let's say I support Spurs. Am I happy if Arsenal lose to a non-English team? Or I support Rangers and Celtic lose to a non-Scottish team? Let's say I am Welsh. Do I support England if they qualify for the finals of the EC or the WC and Wales do not? Different people say different here. |
Author: moro
Date: 05-05-2007, 11:53
| There's people hating other people forever just because they've said something one day against favourit team... from that day, anything that guy could say will be fake, lie and stupid. |
Author: gukfva
Date: 05-05-2007, 21:46
| POLAND In 25th matchday {b> Wisla {/b> lose in Wodzislaw with Odra. Top 2 teams ({b> Belchatow & Zaglebie {/b>) won their matches and they are 9 points ahead of third Korona.
25/30 1. Belchatow 52 {i> CL {/i> ------------------------------------------ 2. Zaglebie 52 {i> UC {/i> ------------------------------------------ 3. Korona 43 {i> Intertoto {/i> ------------------------------------------ 4. Wisla 40 5. Legia 40 (one match played less)
It is sure that Polish EuroCups entrants are: - Groclin (UEFA Cup by winning the Cup) - Belchatow (for the first time ever! If they are Champions, it will be the biggest domestic sensation in Europe ) - Zaglebie |
Author: executor
Date: 05-05-2007, 22:12
| After the draw tonight, Dinamo Bucharest is the new champion of Romania. Congratulations! They totally deserve it. |
Author: badgerboy
Date: 06-05-2007, 12:26
| gukfva
Is it known for sure which teams applied for the Intertoto in Poland?
Most importantly did Korona, Legia & Wisla all apply?
I really wanted Korona Kielce to qualify for Europe - very disappointed they lost the Cup Final - but now even the IT is looking doubtful... |
Author: noppenaaldhakken
Date: 06-05-2007, 16:35
| @ Moro
Yes, we had a ref. by the name of Dick Jol who allegedly betted at his own games. It was however never proven and now he is an international referee again (and a good one, I might add! Unlike most referees he has feeling for the game). The incident your are refering to happened in the 1-5 PSV-Ajax massacre. Eric Braamhaar visibly cheered when Ajax scored the fifth goal. The explanation he gave after the match was that during the attack PSV committed a foul but he decided to let the attack continue. Few moments later Ajax converted this "play on" in a goal. He said he was just happy he made the right decision and used the "advantage"-rule. |
Author: peter_nyc
Date: 06-05-2007, 17:48
| @executor- thanks for your apreciation regarding Dinamo's title ,I hoppe you'll win the romanian cup, cause I want to see you in europe next fall. Btw , are you still available for a new partnership regarding the "Davis cup" next season ?? |
Author: moro
Date: 06-05-2007, 19:03
| Can someone explain me how the dutch play-off will be disputed? Is something like Ajax-Heerenveen two games at Ajax and one in H? |
Author: dinamo_fan_4_ever
Date: 06-05-2007, 20:28
Edited by: dinamo_fan_4_ever at: 06-05-2007, 20:29 | thx executor for the kind words even after the match in iasi where noone wanted football and noone played football.
after 30'th game:
dinamo are champions and got a penalty kick )))) at last
cfr won an important game but was helped by the referee steaua still has a chance to end 2nd if cfr makes a mistake. very interesting and intriguing match at urziceni !!! rapid is 4th and must win the cup to be sure they go in europe next year. they need coman badly. ceahlaul, arges, national, jiul are relegated
bistrita, timisoara and otelul fight for 2 IT spots |
Author: moro
Date: 06-05-2007, 20:59
| Well Dinamo fan, I wont congratulate you, because I should've done it before Christmas... Ceahlaul is not "dead" yet and they'll play their last chance to survive next round at Steaua, I know it sounds stinky, but you never know what a desperate team can produce, especially when Steaua plays like last 7 months... About Rapid - they lost against no. 1, 2, 3 and draw against 6 and 8. Didnt played against 7. No matter what happened (no penalties, bad luck, etc) - I think they are where they deserve to be. Great midfielders, excellent attack, but no gkeeper (Coman is only a "normal" keeper, the others clowns) and of course, zero defense. The only good defender they had was Karamian, he left for Timisoara. Even if I like the guy, I think the trainer Lucescu showed his limits and has the same bad-luck as his father. |
Author: Nick
Date: 07-05-2007, 06:40
| In Bulgaria we still have the chance for a surprise UEFA Cup spot for Loko Plovdiv or Beroe, if one of those teams wins the Cup. Loko is a force at home and faces Levski in the semi at home ground. If they make it to the final everything may be possible Beroe on the other hand must face Litex in the semi. If they make it to the final they will have a huge advantage, because the final will be on their home stadium. |
Author: executor
Date: 07-05-2007, 08:32
| @Peter_nyc
Yes, I sure am
@moro
I agree with you. Rapid looks wonderful from midfield up. Too bad there are some "sappers" in the back |
Author: moro
Date: 08-05-2007, 22:30
| Another great news (sorry Ikoon, but is all related to your team now) of course is that the president of Steaua was dismissed because he is suspected by the big boss of comissioning his own team (for the transfer of brasilian elton Steaua payed 2 millions, only 800.000 to Corinthians, the rest would be comission to an off-shore account). The guy denies, telling other people knew about the money and the 1.2 millions went to an intermediar other than him.
And some news about the 4 mousquetiers from CFR Cluj dismissed, then back to the team - yes they are back, but playing with juniors. My guess: guilty. |
Author: omonoia
Date: 08-05-2007, 23:00
| Does anyone know where in which pot (Central-Eastern or South-Mediterranean) will UEFA put BulUC3(3rd team from Bulgaria)? I'm asking because I've seen it both ways in different websites. |
Author: Tsar_Samuil
Date: 08-05-2007, 23:30
| They are in South-Mediterranean region the 3-th club will play in uefa QR-2 the 4-th in QR1 |
Author: Ricardo
Date: 08-05-2007, 23:45
| 2 UC teams start in Q2, 1 UC team has to start in Q1. This will be the in the league lowest ranked team that qualified for the UC. Except for the cupwinner, that is considered as highest ranking in domestic league.
They will all very probable start in the Southern region, though Uefa will have to shift some teams to get all even numbers in all groups in every round.... |
Author: ikoon
Date: 09-05-2007, 03:34
| @moro, nothing to apologise.
You just gave the explanation why Stoica informed CFR's boss about bribing. Because he was fired or in instance to be.
I was just hoping that you will stay with your first suspicions, above. It should be far more interesting than some money misunderstodings. But hey, if our quality press can't decide, whay to ask this from their fans. |
Author: Agent327
Date: 09-05-2007, 08:22
| @Bert
I have a question concerning the seeding UC for next season I see behind the CW spot for the Netherlands a coefficient of 12.995 - 65.995. Shouldn't this be 63.995 - 65.995? (Ajax or AZ will be treated as the CW entrant or am I mistaken?)
Greetz, Agent327 |
Author: bert.kassies
Date: 09-05-2007, 08:46
| @Agent327. Yes, you are right.
Please note that the seeding UC 2007/08 does not yet contain all information for QR2 and R1. Next week, when the Fair Play spots are known, the list will be updated will all available information. |
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