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Author: Dodge
Date: 21-04-2008, 15:14
| Just wondering when the above page will be up and running. I'm particularly interested in the 1st and 2nd round qualifiers |
Author: bert.kassies
Date: 21-04-2008, 16:43
| I will try to have it up and running this week. Until now we had many, many question marks for the qualified clubs. |
Author: Ricardo
Date: 21-04-2008, 16:49
| you can check my site(UefaCup 08/09 prediction sheet on the right) if you want to see the possible qualification rounds for the UefaCup. UefaCup is always more volatile then the CL, therfor harder to predict. Also the regional groupings are always only done at the last moment, which makes it more difficult. But you can have a look for an indication. |
Author: Dodge
Date: 21-04-2008, 17:08
| Thanks Bert and Ricardo
Obviously I knwo things can change at the last minute (San Marino to the Northern region last year!) but all general help is appreciated |
Author: saras21
Date: 21-04-2008, 18:11
| Ricardo, you can add Hapoel Tel Aviv to your Uefa Cup list. Even if they lose the Israeli cup final to Beitar Jerusalem, they will qualify to UC because Beitar is almost the champions. |
Author: badgerboy
Date: 21-04-2008, 18:16
Edited by: badgerboy at: 21-04-2008, 18:18 | I don't think Ricardo does "almost" |
Author: Ricardo
Date: 21-04-2008, 23:12
| Im afraid I don't indeed. If there wasn't this 2 point deduction, it could all be over in a couple of days. Now it may take a week longer.. |
Author: Kjello
Date: 22-04-2008, 00:45
| Dunno if it's relevant Ricardo, but Norway is currently leading the Fair Play table, this will probably send Rosenborg to UEFA Cup while Tromsø will take Norway's Intertoto-spot. |
Author: daniel
Date: 22-04-2008, 03:24
Edited by: daniel at: 22-04-2008, 03:27 | Ricardo, You may change the N4 of Israel ad the last team to UC by Hapoel Tel Aviv, That will play in the cup final VS Beitar Jerusalem, That will take the champion.
Edit - Sorry Saras, now I see you had already mention that... |
Author: tosh
Date: 12-05-2008, 20:04
Edited by: tosh at: 12-05-2008, 20:04 | friend ricardo why you don't wrote here the Vlaznia ?
https://kassiesa.com/friends/ricardo/ecl0708/uc0809.htm |
Author: Ricardo
Date: 12-05-2008, 22:18
| @tosh, sorry, you are right I forgot it. I have updated it local and it will be on internet soon. |
Author: tosh
Date: 12-05-2008, 23:07
| Also SS Murata is the Cup Winner at San Marino :-) |
Author: dinamozagreb
Date: 13-05-2008, 18:14
Edited by: dinamozagreb at: 13-05-2008, 18:16 | So it seems that in 1st qual. round of Uefa cup numbers will be (fair-play club added):
28 North 23 Central-East 23 South
(@ ricardo you again put Bulgarian clubs in Central region, I'll kick the living daylight out of you )
So there are 2 logical solutions: 1) a club from San Marino or Andorra will move from South to Central 2) Vaduz (Lie) will move from Central to South
On "Fair Play draw" topic we basically concluded that the solution 1) will probably be applied. So what happens next?
28 North ---> 14 go to 2qr + 4 directly = 18 clubs 24 Central-East ---> 12 go to 2qr + 5 directly = 17 clubs 22 South ---> 11 go to 2qr + 7 directly = 18 clubs
Clubs from Intertoto have to be added. There are some strange pairings there. a) A club from Switzerland (Central) has been put with clubs from South (Alb/Cyp, Mlt/Slo-Bul) b) There is a draw with clubs from all three zones: Aze (Central) vs Slk (Central) - Bel (North) - Rom (South)
I think other pairings are clear: 1- Cro/Mac-Isr-Esp ---> South 2- Srb/Gre-Ita ---> South 3- Bos/Mon-Tur-Por ---> South 4- Lux/Geo-Rus-Ger ---> Central 5- Arm/Mol-Ukr-Fra ---> Central 6- Pol/Blr-Aut/Kaz/Hun-Cze ---> Central 7- Lit/Est-Nor-Ned ---> North 8- Nir/Fin-Den-Eng ---> North 9- Far/Swe-Sco/Ire/Wal/Isl/Lat ---> North
So with that clear 9 in 2nd qr it stands:
21 North 20 Central-East 21 South
So those two Intertoto pairings have to go to North and South. Realistically the finalists will be Swi/Bul (Central/South) and Bel/Rom (North/South). What if Bulgaria and Romania win? Which of them will go to North? Romania? Or will something else happen? |
Author: amirbachar
Date: 13-05-2008, 18:53
Edited by: amirbachar at: 13-05-2008, 19:15 | It is much simplier than that.
The draw for the IT is made by regions: http://www.intertoto-cup.com/documents/INTERTOTODRAW_Complete_001.pdf
So probably Vaduz will move from Central to North in Q2. |
Author: dinamozagreb
Date: 13-05-2008, 19:26
| So Swi/Bul (Central/South) will stay in South and Bel/Rom (North/South) will stay in Central.
That makes it in 2nd qr:
21 North 21 Central-East 22 South
Vaduz from Central to North in 2nd qr? But Vaduz is unceeded in 1st qr and probably wont make it to 2nd qr.
What will happen? |
Author: amirbachar
Date: 13-05-2008, 19:47
| Oh, you right. Then I don't know what will happen. |
Author: aloola
Date: 13-05-2008, 19:54
| 1st qualifying round:
Northern region: 28 teams
Central-east region: 23 teams - 1 of those goes into northern region. FC Vaduz maybe.
Southern region: 23 teams - 1 of those goes into northern region. San Marino team.
Then it is:
Northern region: 30 teams
Central-east region: 22 teams
Southern region: 22 teams
2nd qualifying round:
Northern region: 22 teams - 15 from 1st, 4 new teams and 3 toto-teams.
Central-east region: 20 teams - 11 from 1st, 5 new teams and 4 toto-teams.
Southern region: 22 teams - 11 from 1st, 7 new teams and 4 toto-teams.
Can this be it? |
Author: dinamozagreb
Date: 13-05-2008, 20:21
| Ding! Ding! Ding!
I think that would be best...Bert? |
Author: bert.kassies
Date: 13-05-2008, 20:44
| Until now I have never noticed that UEFA moves teams in QR1 while looking ahead to QR2. I've tried such changes before but was never succesful.
My guess can be seen at Seeding in the UEFA Cup 2008/2009. I try to move as little as possible (because I'm not very good at predicting UEFA) and take almost the same move as last year: San Marino to Central.
In QR2 I don't move at all. Just distributed the IT spots according to the highest country ranking over the groups: 3 North, 3 Central, 5 South.
But your guess is just as good as mine. |
Author: Ricardo
Date: 13-05-2008, 21:31
| I still think that the Intertoto is already put in the regional groupings that will also be used for UC. 3 North, 4 Central and 4 South |
Author: playtony
Date: 13-05-2008, 21:33
| Bert, you say you did not moved anything in QR2, but I see you have put Bulgarian Cup Winner in Northern region. Would it not be more logical to put Russian or Ukrainan team to Northern region, and leave IT06 in Central region, as I guess in Playtony's European Football Page? |
Author: bert.kassies
Date: 13-05-2008, 22:05
| @playtony: Mmm, that is a bug. I have to reconsider the QR2 grouping.
@Ricardo: In 2006 and 2007 UEFA undid all IT moves in the succeeding UC draws. See UEFA Cup regions (scroll down) |
Author: bert.kassies
Date: 13-05-2008, 22:16
| playtony, I agree with most of what you propose. Except for the move of a Central team to North. In 2005 UEFA put the Fair Play team Mainz 05 in QR1 in Central, and in QR2 in North. Maybe they do the same with the German FP team this year. |
Author: tosh
Date: 13-05-2008, 22:31
| Interblock has 3.272 not 4.272 , Omonoia goes to seeded ! |
Author: bert.kassies
Date: 13-05-2008, 22:45
| tosh, thanks. |
Author: tosh
Date: 13-05-2008, 23:04
| you are welcome bert .
But why Omonia still unknown ? (3.327) |
Author: bert.kassies
Date: 13-05-2008, 23:15
| Because e.g. NK Domzale and Zeljeznicar Sarajevo still may qualify as UC2. |
Author: tosh
Date: 13-05-2008, 23:21
| yes i know that
but Interblock Ljubljana has lower ranking than Omonia :-)
Interblock Ljubljana Slo 3.272
Omonia Nicosia Cyp 3.327 |
Author: bert.kassies
Date: 14-05-2008, 08:57
| Thanks again. Typical example of one error induced by another error. Fixed now. |
Author: dinamozagreb
Date: 14-05-2008, 13:16
| @bert
So if I understand you correctly, you think that Uefa will undo IT moves and if in pairing IT04 @ (Bul/Sui/Cyp/Slo/..) a club from Switzerland wins they will put it back to Central...and if in pairing IT06 @ (Rom/Bel/Svk/Azb) a club from Romania/Belgium wins they will put it back to South/North?
Another thing. You wrote :"In QR2 I don't move at all. Just distributed the IT spots according to the highest country ranking over the groups: 3 North, 3 Central, 5 South." But you put pairnig IT06 @ (Rom/Bel/Svk/Azb) to Cental. |
Author: bert.kassies
Date: 14-05-2008, 13:45
| "So if I understand you correctly, you think that Uefa will undo IT moves and if in pairing IT04 @ (Bul/Sui/Cyp/Slo/..) a club from Switzerland wins they will put it back to Central...and if in pairing IT06 @ (Rom/Bel/Svk/Azb) a club from Romania/Belgium wins they will put it back to South/North?"
Basicly, yes. And to be consequent maybe I should already swap IT04 and IT06.
"Another thing. You wrote :"In QR2 I don't move at all. Just distributed the IT spots according to the highest country ranking over the groups: 3 North, 3 Central, 5 South." But you put pairnig IT06 @ (Rom/Bel/Svk/Azb) to Cental."
In principle I consider IT05-IT08 to be Central. UEFA messed it up by putting Belgium and Romania in this group. I don't know why. Other choices were quite possible and even give opportunities not to put associations ranked 5 and 9 (Germany and Russia) in one group.
Anyway, UEFA will do it differently Until now nobody has been capable of consistently predicting these adhoc decisions. |
Author: CantSmileWithoutYou
Date: 15-05-2008, 12:17
| Correct me if i am wrong, but have Amkar Perm not assured themselves of UEFA Cup football as they play CSKA Moscow in the Russian Cup Final, and CSKA have already qualified.
All we don't know is to which team would enter in QR2 or R1? |
Author: Ricardo
Date: 15-05-2008, 13:08
Edited by: Ricardo at: 15-05-2008, 13:10 | No, CSKA qualified for UC, but a cup-loser only qualifies if the cupwinner plays CL. So if CSKA wins, then nr 4 in the Russian league,FK Moskow, qualifies, as being next in league,otherwise Amkar |
Author: CantSmileWithoutYou
Date: 16-05-2008, 11:52
| thanks for clearing that up Ricardo, i was not aware that how it worked in Russia. |
Author: badgerboy
Date: 16-05-2008, 12:03
| CantSmileWithoutYou
That's how it works everywhere - not just in Russia.
They are "UEFA rules" not national ones. |
Author: executor
Date: 16-05-2008, 12:03
| It's not only in Russia, but in any country in UEFA zone. |
Author: CantSmileWithoutYou
Date: 16-05-2008, 15:08
| Sorry guys... i mis-understood Ricardo's reply.! Which in turn makes me look silly!
one thing i do know... Manchester City will be England's fair play representative, so will enter the uefa cup qualifiying rounds. BBC Sport has confirmed this. |
Author: badgerboy
Date: 19-05-2008, 17:41
| So all the seeding stuff is almost done. Only the geographical regions & UEFA's adjustments to these leave things uncertain.
FC Kobenhavn are currently the last seeded team in R1.
Ignoring the geographical issues the last seeded team in QR2 should depend on two things.
First - who wins the league in Hungary. If it's Debrecen (& hence MTK go to the UEFA Cup) then it should be Groclin Grodzisk. But if MTK win the Hungarian league then Groclin would be unseeded & Salzburg would be the last seeded team.
Second - is actually the coefficient of Groclin themselves. If they become Slask Wroclaw & UEFA deems they lose the points of Groclin then Gent would be seeded.
Looking at "geographic issues" it's probable that Gent and Lillestrom at least will be seeded in the Northern section when they wouldn't in an "open draw". Lokomotiv Sofia & Salzburg or Groclin look the most likely to suffer.
In QR1 one Lithuanian team should be seeded & one not. I didn't find who won the Cup at the weekend so I'm not sure which is which.
But with the geographical regions (and assuming Bert's solution of moving the San Marino team is right) the two Bosnian teams would be the big losers in the great geography raffle while the two Moldovan teams would be the winners. |
Author: TimJohnson
Date: 19-05-2008, 18:53
| According to Kicker Kaunas won 2-1 therefore I assume Suduva will be seeded. Tim |
Author: Madeirense
Date: 19-05-2008, 20:04
Edited by: Madeirense at: 21-05-2008, 04:12 | Hello everybody. Let me start by saying how much I enjoy reading the different topics of this forum. Having only joined a few days ago, having been alerted by Bert of the existence of this forum, I can say that already I have learned a lot by just reading the different posts
I am preparing an article for the local newspaper based upon the UEFA Cup competitions 2008-2009. I have used Bert?s tables (what a fantastic job by him!!), having brought it up to date with the results of this last week-end and would very much appreciate it if anybody would let me know if he/she does not agree with anyhting, before publishing the article.
1ª ronda de Qualificação (74 equipas) Norte (28 equipas):
Cabeças de série coef. Os outros coef. ------------------------ --- ---------------- ------------------------ --- ---------------- Manchester City Eng 30.996 Vetra Vilnius Lit 2.640 Copenhagen Den 23.748 Cork City Irl 2.420 Brondby IF Den 18.748 St. Patrick's Athletic Irl 2.420 Viking Stavanger Nor 6.748 IA Akranes Isl 1.980 Midtylland Nor 6.748 TUMK Talinn Est 1.430 FC Nordsjaelland Den 6.748 Flora Tallinn Est 1.430 Djurgårdens IF Swe 6.518 Glentoran Nir 0.770 Kalmar FF Swe 4.518 Cliftonville Nir 0.770 Haka Valkeakoski Fin 3.176 Bangor City Wal 0.770 Honka Espoo Fin 3.176 The New Saints Wal 0.770 FH Hafnarfjardar Isl 2.980 EB Streymur Far 0.605 Metalurgs Liepaja Lat 2.915 B36 Torshavn Far 0.605 JFK Olimps Riga Lat 2.915 Grevenmacher/Viktoria Lux 0.495 Suduva Marijampole Lit 2.640 Racing Union Luxembourg Lux 0.495
Central-Este (24 equipas): Cabeças de série coef. Os outros coef. ------------------------ --- ---------------- ------------------------ --- ---------------- Austria Wien Aut 31.840 Zestafoni/Ameri Tblisi Geo 1.925 Hertha BSC Ger 27.078 Georgia Tbilisi Geo 1.925 Debrecen/MTK Hun 10.960 - 4.960 FC Vaduz Lie 1.815 FC Salzburg Aut 10.840 MTZ-RIPO Minsk Bls 1.760 Groclin Grodzisk Pol 9.973 FC Gomel Bls 1.760 AC Bellinzona Sui 7.993 Interbaku/Khazar Azb 1.265 Legia Warsaw Pol 4.973 Khazar/Nefchi Baku Azb 1.265 Spartak Trnava Svk 4.070 Ararat Yerevan Arm 1.210 MSK Zilina Svk 4.070 Banants Yerevan Arm 1.210 MTK/Honved/Ujpest Hun 4.960 - 3.960 Tobol Kustanai Kaz 0.852 Nistru Otaci Mol 2.475 Shakhtyor Karaganda Kaz 0.852 Dacia Chisinau Mol 2.475 Murata/Juvenes Dogana Sma 0.082 Sul-Mediterraneo (22 equipas): Cabeças de série coef. Os outros coef. ------------------------ --- ---------------- ------------------------ --- ---------------- Hapoel Tel Aviv Isr 21.197 Zrijnski/Sloboda Bos 2.805 Lokomotiv Sofia Bul 11.644 Mordica/Siroki/Celik Bos 2.805 Hajduk Split Cro 6.836 Milano Kumanovo Mac 2.090 Vojvodina Novi Sad Srb 5.527 Pelister Bitola Mac 2.090 Zemun/Borac/Napred/Cukar Srb 5.527 Vllaznia Shkodër Alb 1.210 Maccabi Netanya Isr 5.197 Partizani Tirana Alb 1.210 Slaven Koprivnica Cro 3.836 Hamrun/Floriana/Birkirk Mlt 0.275 Apoel Nicosia Cyp 3.327 Marsaxloxx FC Mlt 0.275 Omonia Nicosia Cyp 3.327 Rangers/Lusitan/St Julia And 0.165 FC Koper Slo 3.272 Mogren Budva Mon 0.165 Interblock Ljubljana Slo 3.272 Zeta Golubouci Mon 0.165 |
Author: Madeirense
Date: 19-05-2008, 21:04
Edited by: Madeirense at: 21-05-2008, 04:18 | Sorry about it not being correctly spaced out, but even though I have 2 perfectly separated columns on my document, (seeded clubs left column and non-seeded clubs in the right column perfectly spaced out), when I paste it into this post no space appears between the columns. |
Author: Madeirense
Date: 19-05-2008, 21:20
Edited by: Madeirense at: 21-05-2008, 04:22 | 2ª ronda de Qualificação (64 equipas) Norte (22 equipas):
Equipas cabeças de série coef. Os outros coef. ------------------------ --- ---------------- ------------------------ --- ---------------- IT09 Nor/Ned/Lit Est @ 35.400 – 1.430 Stabæk IF Nor 7.400 Manchester City * Eng 30.996 Midtylland * Den 6.748 Hertha BSC * Ger 27.078 FC Nordsjaelland * Den 6.748 IT10 Eng/Den/Fin/NIr @ 24.996 – 0.770 Djurgårdens IF * Swe 6.518 FC Copenhagen * Den 23.748 Kalmar FF * Swe 4.518 Brøndby IF * Den 18.748 Haka Valkeakoski * Fin 3.176 Viking Stavanger * Nor 12.400 Honka Espoo * Fin 3.176 IT11 Sco/Swe/Lat/Irl @ 12.013 – 0.605 FH Hafnarfjardar * Isl 2.980 Motherwell/Queen South Sco 11.013 Metalurgs Liepaja * Lat 2.915 AA Gent Bel 8.810 JFK Olimps Riga * Lat 2.915 Lillestrøm SK Nor 7.400 Suduva Marijampole * Lit 2.640
Central-Este (20 equipas):
Equipas cabeças de série coef. Os outros coef. ------------------------ --- ---------------- ------------------------ --- ---------------- IT05 Ger/Rus/Geo/Lux @ 52.078 – 0.495 FC Salzburg * Aut 10.840 Dnipro Dnipropetrovsk Ukr 31.932 Groclin Grodzisk * Pol 9.973 Austria Wien * Aut 31.840 Young Boys Sui 7.993 IT07 Fra/Ukr/Mol/Arm @ 24.380 – 1.210 AC Bellinzona * Sui 7.993 IT08 Cze/Aut/Pol/Hun @ 18.496 – 0.852 Legia Warsaw * Pol 4.973 FC Zürich Sui 16.993 MTK/Honved/Ujpest Hun 4.960-3.960 Slovan Liberec Cze 16.496 MSK Zilina * Svk 4.070 FK Moscow Rus 14.437 Spartak Trnava * Slv 4.070 IT06 Rom/Bel/Svk/Az @ 13.398 – 1.265 Nistru Otaci * Mol 2.475 Debrecen/MTK Hun 10.960 - 4.960 Dacia Chisinau * Mol 2.475
Sul--Mediterraneo (22 equipas):
Equipas cabeças de série coef. Os outros coef. ------------------------ --- ---------------- ------------------------ --- ---------------- IT01 Esp/Isr/Cro/Mac @ Tur 46.837 - 2.090 Lokomotiv Sofia * Bul 11.644 Besiktas 40.468 Hajduk Split * Cro 6.836 IT03 Por/Tur/Bos/Mon @ 33.176 - 0.165 Vojvodina Novi Sad * Srb 5.527 Levski Sofia Bul 32.644 Zemun/Borac/Napred/Cukar*Srb 5.527 AEK Athens Gre 31.525 Maccabi Netanya Isr 5.197 IT02 Gre/Ita/Srb @ 21.525 - 5.527 Bnel/Sakhnin/IroniKiryat Isr 5.197 Hapoel Tel Aviv * Isr 21.197 Slaven Koprivnica * Cro 3.836 Aris Thessaloniki Gre 19.525 APOEL Nicosia * Cyp 3.327 Litex Lovech Bul 18.644 Omonia Nicosia * Cyp 3.327 Red Star/Partizan Belgr Srb 18.527 - 25.527 Interblock Ljubljana * Slo 3,272 IT04 Sui/Bul/Cyp/Slo @ 16.993 - 3.272 FC Koper * Slo 3.272
3ª Ronda de Qualificação do Champions League (32 equipas)
Equipas cabeças de série coef. Os outros coef. ------------------------ --- ---------------- ------------------------ --- ---------------- Liverpool Eng 118.996 Atlético Madrid Esp 36.837 FC Barcelona Esp 117.837 Sparta Praha ** Cze 36.496 Arsenal Eng 110.996 Dinamo Kiev ** Ukr 34.932 Schalke 04 Ger 67.078 Slavia Praha ** Cze 31.496 Juventus Ita 66.934 Galatasaray Tur 30.468 Rangers/Celtic ** Sco 66.013 - 52.013 CSKA Sofia Bul 19.644 Olympique Marseille Fra 63.380 Partizan/Red Star **Srb 25.527-18.527 Steaua Bucuresti Rom 59.398 Vitória Guimarães Por 18.176 Panathinaikos ** Gre 52.525 Dinamo Zagreb * Cro 17.836 FC Basel ** Sui 51.993 Wisla Kraków ** Pol 15.973 Olympiakos Piraeus Gre 51.525 Standard Liège Bel 14.810 Fenerbahçe ** Tur 51.468 FC Twente Ned 14.610 Shakhtar Donetsk ** Ukr 49.932 Petrzalka Bratislava * Svk 14.070 Anderlecht ** Bel 41.810 AaB Aalborg ** Den 12.748 Fiorentina Ita 40.934 SK Brann Bergen ** Nor 12.400 Spartak Moscow Rus 40.437 Debrecen/Rapid Wien ** 10.960/10.840 |
Author: Madeirense
Date: 19-05-2008, 21:27
Edited by: Madeirense at: 21-05-2008, 05:13 | Round 1 da Taça Uefa (80 equipas) Equipas cabeças de série coef. Os outros coef. ------------------------ --- ---------------- ------------------------ --- -------- AC Milan Ita 119.934 IT02 Ita/Gre/Srb @ ** 21.525-5.527 Sevilla Esp 102.837 Hapoel Tel Aviv * Isr 21.197 Valencia Esp 83.837 Borussia Dortmund Ger 21.078 Benfica Por 77.176 CSKA Sofia *** Bul 19.644 CSKA Moscow Rus 59.437 Aris Thessaloniki ** Gre 19.525 Tottenham Hotspur Eng 55.996 Brøndby IF * Den 18.748 Hamburg Ger 52.078 Litex Lovech ** Bul 18.644 IT05 Ger/Rus/Geo/Lux @** 52.078–0.495 Red Star Belgrade ** Srb 18.527 Ajax Ned 51.610 IT08 Cze/Aut/Pol/Hun @**18.496-0.852 IT01 Esp/Isr/Cro/Mac @** 46.837-2.090 Vitória Guimarães *** Por 18.176 Everton Eng 43.996 Dinamo Zagreb *** Cro 17.836 Club Brugge Bel 41.810 St. Etienne Fra 17.380 Rapid Bucuresti Rom 41.398 FC Zürich ** Sui 16.993 Besiktas ** Tur 40.468 IT04 Bul/Sui/Cyp/Slo @**16.993-3.272 Paris Saint-Germain Fra 37.380 Slovan Liberec ** Cze 16.496 Atlético Madrid *** Esp 36.837 Wolfsburg Ger 16.078 Sparta Praha *** Cze 36.496 Wisla Kraków *** Pol 15.973 Dinamo Bucuresti Rom 36.398 Maritimo Funchal Por 15.176 Heerenveen Ned 35.610 Vitória Setúbal Por 15.176 IT09 Nor/Ned/Lit Est @ **35.400-1.430 Standard Liège *** Bel 14.810 Udinese Ita 34.934 FC Twente *** Ned 14.610 Dinamo Kiev *** Ukr 34.932 FK Moscow ** Rus 14.437 Feyenoord Ned 33.610 Petrzalka Bratislava *** Svk 14.070 IT03 Por/Tur/Bos/Mon @** 33.176-0.165 Unirea Urziceni Rom 13.398 Levski Sofia ** Bul 32.644 Politehnica Timisoara Rom 13.398 Dnipro Dnipropetrovsk ** Ukr 31.932 IT06 Rom/Bel/Svk/Az @** 13.398-1.265 Austria Wien * Aut 31.840 AaB Aalborg *** Den 12.748 AEK Athens ** Gre 31.525 NEC Ned 12.610 Slavia Praha *** Cze 31.496 K Brann Bergen *** Nor 12.400 Manchester City * Eng 30.996 Viking Stavanger * Nor 12.400 Galatasaray *** Tur 30.468 IT11 Sco/Swe/Lat/Irl @ ** 12.013 Sampdoria Ita 28.934 Banik Ostrava Cze 11.496 Hertha BSC * Ger 27.078 Kayserispor Tur 11.468 Partizan *** Srb 25.527 Motherwell Sco 11.013 Nancy Fra 25.380 Queen of the South ** Sco 11.013 IT10 Eng/Den/Fin/NIr @** 24.996-0.770 Debrecen/Rapid Wien *** Hun/Aus 10.960/10.840 Portsmouth Eng 24.996 Metalist Kharkiv Ukr 10.932 Santander Esp 24.837 Rapid Wien/FC Salzburg** Aus 10.840 IT07 Fra/Ukr/Mol/Arm @** 24.380–1.210 AA Gent ** Bel 8.810 FC Copenhagen * Den 23.748 Lillestrom ** Nor 7.400
Teams on the left-hand side seeded teams, teams on the right non-seeded teams. I don?t seem to manage in separting them properly on this page. Anyhow if somebody thinks that I have misplaced a team or that a mistake has been made, then please let me know |
Author: executor
Date: 19-05-2008, 22:04
| Try with {i>pre{/i> and {i>/pre{/i> (put between angular brackets) |
Author: folktronica
Date: 19-05-2008, 22:18
| great ! thanks for your time |
Author: cyberjimmy
Date: 20-05-2008, 04:42
| Actually The Coef of IT07 (France, Stade Rennais) is 24.380. |
Author: Spath
Date: 20-05-2008, 10:28
| IT02 Ita/Gre/Srb @ ** 19.934-5.527
Actually this is 21.525 - 5.527 |
Author: badgerboy
Date: 20-05-2008, 11:04
Edited by: badgerboy at: 20-05-2008, 11:15 | The main problem I see with your list is that - for some reason - you seem to have put Cup Winners as the lowest seeds of their country and cup losers as highest.
For example - for Lithuania - Suduva should be seeded & Vetra (cup losers) unseeded. Thanks Tim! While for Norway it should be Lillestrom (Cup Winners) seeded & Stabaek unseeded.
Other points:
You've put Hertha Berlin in the Northern section. I take it you (like everyone else) is just "second-guessing" how UEFA deal with the geographical anomolies.
I haven't looked at the rest of the list in detail yet but I did notice that you have Maccabi Netanya as the named team for Israel - when I think the season isn't finished yet and there are still three teams in the race for 2nd, 3rd & 4th.
And yes - as per some feedback you received already quite a bit of the IT seeding is wrong.
The highest seeds - with their position in the R1 list - I have are: Stuttgart (8th), Deportivo (10th), Rosenborg (20th), Braga (24th), Aston Villa (37th), Rennes (39th), Panionios (41st), Teplice (49th), Grasshoppers (54th), Vaslui (66th) and Hibernian (71st). |
Author: Madeirense
Date: 20-05-2008, 18:19
| Thanks Cyberjimmy, I wasn?t quite sure of all Intertoto teams
Thanks Spath, you are quite right,Panoios is the highest ranked club
Also thanks Badgerboy, based upon Bert?s list I did assume that Hertha will be placed in the Northern section. I agree:Lillestrom as CW has precedence and Sudova as N2 shouls have precedence As to Maccabi Netanya, as they are sure of European football,I did place them, because it is nearly impossible that they won?t finish 2nd or 3rd. Bit I agree, there should be two groups of M.Netanya/Bnel Sakhin/Ironi besides Hapoel Tel Aviv. And yes, as i could?nt find out exactly who the different Intertoto participants would be, in some cases I just used the coefficient of the club whose country had the highest ranking. Again, tks for the info and will change my lists accordingly |
Author: playtony
Date: 20-05-2008, 23:12
| Finaly I found some time to make draw predictions on my Playtony's European Football Page under the section "UC Draw 2008". I made also prediction of 8 groups for last round before group stage, but it is going to change with every single surprise in CL, UC and UIC early stages. |
Author: folktronica
Date: 21-05-2008, 00:00
| 2playtony fc Moskva has to put in Central-Este zone |
Author: playtony
Date: 21-05-2008, 00:11
| @ folktronica:
Yes, I just assumed that UEFA will move FC Moskva to Northen region, because of uneven number of participians, but I will accept now Bert's assumption that Hertha will be moved, so that I do not create even more confusion in anyway pretty confusing UC seeding list. |
Author: Madeirense
Date: 21-05-2008, 04:30
Edited by: Madeirense at: 21-05-2008, 04:46 | I have corrected tables above accordingly. Hope it is right now.
Playtony, I think you are using wrong coefficient for Racing Santander. Santander?s coefficient should be 24.837 and not 32.837 which is the coefficient of Real Sociedad, and also, coefficient of UIC 7 should be 24.380, (Rennes) and not 17.380 |
Author: cyberjimmy
Date: 21-05-2008, 04:57
| Is there any reason why Hertha should be moved to Northern Region ?
I don't really understand all those previsions. |
Author: playtony
Date: 21-05-2008, 11:05
| Thanks Madeirense, you are right in both cases. I will correct it imidiately. |
Author: Ricardo
Date: 21-05-2008, 20:53
| cyberjimmy, no - it's just an assumption. Only Uefa knows the real answer and truth. But there is 1 team too much in the central region, which could be Hertha. |
Author: Cro_nogomet
Date: 23-05-2008, 13:35
| Ricardo, I see that you still have Mallorca as Spanish Intertoto contender, while it's confirmed that Deportivo will take part in that competition. |
Author: cyberjimmy
Date: 23-05-2008, 16:44
| I think Valsui will not qualify for UEFA QR2. Germinal Beerschot will and geographic repartition for QR2 will not be a problem (Hertha BSC to Center, Germinal to North) |
Author: cyberjimmy
Date: 23-05-2008, 17:24
| My previsions for Center Region :
SEEDED : Hertha BSC (Ger)* or Valsui (Rom) IT FC Salzburg (Aus)* Debrecen(Hun)* or Groclin Grodzik (Pol)* FK Moscow (Rus) Slovan Liberec (Cze) FC Zurich (Sui) Stade Rennais (Fra) IT Austria Wien (Aus)* Dnipopetrovsk (Ukr) Stuttgart (All) IT
UNSEEDED : Nistru Otaci (Mdv)* Dacia Chisinau (Mdv)* Ujpest, Gyor or Honved (Hun)* Spartak Trnava (Svk)* Zilina (Svk)* MTK Budapest (Hun)*or Groclin Grodzik (Pol)* Legia Varsow (Pol)* Sturm Graz (Aut)IT or Brno (Cze) IT Bellinzona (Sui)* Young Boys (Sui)
What could change my previsions : *The Austrian teams in QR1 (Austria Wien and FC Salzburg), and Stuttgart & Rennes in IT cup : if they don't qualify, the team(s) which defeated them wouldn't be seeded. *If Germinal Beerschot doesn't qualify, UEFA would proceed to modifacation of region repartition (Hertha BSC to Northern ?) *If other teams qualified for QR1 or IT cup don't qualify for QR2, the teams which defeated them would replace them without changing the seeding issue.
Order of modifications : 1-Groclin Grodzik (if they qualify) 2-Brno (if they qualify) 3-Young Boys 4-Bellinzona (if they qualify) 5-Sturm Graz (if they qualify) 6-Legia Warsov (if they qualify)... |
Author: cyberjimmy
Date: 23-05-2008, 19:48
| My previsions for QR2 Northern Region :
1-Club Brugge (Bel) 2-Rosenborg BK IT (Nor) 3-Manchester City * (Eng) 4-Aston Villa IT (Eng) 5-København* (Den) 6-Brøndby IF * (Den) 7-Viking Stavanger * (Nor) 8-Hibernian IT (Sco) 9-Motherwell (Sco) 10-Germinal Beerschot IT (Bel) or Hertha BSC* (Ger) 11-Lillestrøm SK (Nor) ------------------------------------------------------------------- 12-Stabæk IF (Nor) 13-Midtjylland* (Den) 14-FC Nordsjælland* (Den) 15-Djurgårdens IF * (Swe) 16-Kalmar FF * (Swe) 17-Haka Valkeakoski * (Fin) 18-Honka Espoo * (Fin) 19-FH Hafnarfjardar * (Isl) 20-Metalurgs Liepaja * (Lat) 21-JFK Olimps Riga * (Lat) 22-Vetra Vilnius* (Lit) |
Author: cyberjimmy
Date: 25-05-2008, 19:58
| I don't understand why Bert doesn't use the "best coef team" for Intertoto qualified teams in QR2. (Aston Villa, Deportivo...).
This method is used for QR1. So why not for UIC ? |
Author: cyberjimmy
Date: 25-05-2008, 23:33
| For the QR2 Draw, UEFA uses 2 groupes for each region. Are those groupes decided arbitrarly ? |
Author: bert.kassies
Date: 26-05-2008, 09:46
| See Seeding in the UEFA Cup 2008/2009
In the 2nd qualifying round UEFA splits each region into two drawing groups. The exact method of the distribution of teams over the groups is unknown, but is similar to the distribution of teams over groups in round 1 (see below). But because there are only two groups the main target is that for associations with seeded and unseeded clubs all seeded clubs must be in the same group and all unseeded clubs must be in the other group. If possible changes are applied only at the same row (the same position in the groups). These rules cannot explain all changes made by UEFA. |
Author: Capsoni
Date: 26-05-2008, 12:04
Edited by: Capsoni at: 26-05-2008, 12:08 | Can anyone tell me why the UEFA didnt devide the regiongroups in even numbers of teams ?
Last year.. south 22 teams, central 20 teams and north 32 teams.
e.g The 2 teams from luxembourg startet in NORTH.. why ? |
Author: cyberjimmy
Date: 26-05-2008, 15:18
Edited by: cyberjimmy at: 26-05-2008, 15:29 | It depends on how many teams there are for each region. Then, if the teams in a region are in an odd number, UEFA decides to move a team to another region.
This year, for QR1 there will be a move between Eastern group & Southern group.
For QR2, it depends on Intertoto qualified teams. 2 intertoto matches may change the groupes repartition : *IT 4 (Cherno More Varna (southern) Vs Grashoppers Zurich (eastern) ) *IT 6 (Vaslui (eastern) Vs Germinal Beerschot (Northern).
QR1 : N=14 matches C-E=11 or 12 S=11 or 12 QR2 : N=10 or 11 C-E=10 or 11 S=10 or 11 |
Author: tosh
Date: 26-05-2008, 22:33
| @bert
my friend at Southern-Mediterranean , Unseeded , why from Bosnia the first team is UC1 and not CW ? |
Author: bert.kassies
Date: 27-05-2008, 10:25
| UC1 can also be CW. But CW is not sure, because Zrinjski may still be champion. Or not? |
Author: tosh
Date: 27-05-2008, 10:32
| hehe i think is CW because everybody knows that UC1 goes to Champion League :-) |
Author: bert.kassies
Date: 27-05-2008, 10:39
| Sorry, UC1 means first UEFA Cup team. |
Author: executor
Date: 27-05-2008, 10:44
| Bert: {i>Zrinjski may still be champion. Or not?{/i>
In the last round they play away, while 2 of the 3 teams above them have home games. What do you think? |
Author: FK_Leotar
Date: 28-05-2008, 17:11
| Morica will surly be champion. Berth U can put it in the CLQ R1 |
Author: cyberjimmy
Date: 30-05-2008, 05:05
Edited by: cyberjimmy at: 30-05-2008, 05:27 | For UCQR2 there will be :
in Northern zone : 21 or 22 teams in Center zone : 19 to 22 teams in Southern zone : 21 to 23 teams.
3 spots are uncertain : *IT06 (Roumania, Slovakia and Azerbaidjan for Center, Belgium for North) *IT04 (Bulgaria, Cyprus and Slovenia for South, Switzerland for Center) *The change made by UEFA in QR1 (Center to South or South to Center)
There are 2 ways for having an even number of teams in each group : *Belgium and Switzerland qualify in UIC and there's one more club from the south qualified from QR1. *Belgium qualify in UIC but not Switzerland and there's one more club from the Center qualified from QR1.
I think Belgium and Switzerland will qualify for QR2, so UEFA should move a seeded team from Center to South in QR1 (Debrecen ?) |
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