Perception of refereeing in European Games.

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greenbay
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Post by greenbay »

Arges Pitesti wrote:
greenbay wrote:
bert.kassies wrote:And who else should we blame, if we can't blame the ref anymore?
Most important point. Football would lose a lot of its charme to me, if I cannot be mad at the refs after a game anymore. Blaming the refs for awarding Bayern Munich a ridiculous game winning penalty in the dying minutes makes football much more interesting than CR7 doing a couple of hattricks.
:roll:

:shock:

This could be used as the proof that football is not sport. :|
Let me explain. Imagine, you were an Englishman. (Just for the sake of argument.)

Scene A)
Me: "Did you see that hattrick that Wayne Rooney scored yesterday to win the game?"
You: "Fantastic performance, wasn't it?"
Me: "Yes, splendid!"
You: "Will it rain this afternoon?"
Me: "The met office said that there is a 70% chance..."

Scene B)
Me: "The ball was not in!"
You: "Of course, it was, that was a clear goal by Geoff Hurst."
Me: "...."
You: "...."
Me: "...."
You: "...."
(10 minutes later)
Me: "Computer animation done a couple of years ago, prove me right!"
You: "Software can be wrong."
Me: "...."
You: "...."
Me: "...."
You: "...."
(another 10 minutes later)
Me: "Well, who cares for 1966 anyway? We got our revenge in 2010, when Lampard's goal was chalked off."
You: "..."

See the difference? The English-German rivalry in football would only be half the fun, if in 1966 they already had goal line technology. As then, Germany would be five time world champions by now, while England are one time runners-up only. So that nearly 50 years later, the 1966 final would be not more than a side note in the history books.
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Arges Pitesti
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Post by Arges Pitesti »

Aside the fact that with goal-line tech, maybe Germany would have not won in 54 and 90 (there were ref mistakes in both finals)...

The problem is the rotten culture that surrounds football! We are so addicted to the idea of matches being disguided by ref mistakes that we find normal to consider this shit a major part of the fun!!!!!!! :lol: :roll: :nono:

We have to come back to a different idea of fun, rivalry, competition and so on....something based on the inner beauty of the game...it's not difficult, and technology could help us.
"Better lose one match 5-0 than five 1-0" W. Boskov
JK
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Post by JK »

Aliceag wrote:Instead of Spamming the match forums I will open and close this discussion here. I will never post about refereeing again in matchday forums, but I want to understand if I am the crazy one around here before I retire from this inglorious fight (since it seems FIFA refused the request by Brazilian league to have video-refereeing).

Questions to everyone based on what you see, your personal experience watching european football.

1) Do you perceive the refereeing being good in general? Do referees make good decisions most of the time?

2) When they make bad decisions do you perceive them as being evenly distributed and random? Or do you believe they favour richer and bigger clubs?

3) Do you believe everything should stay the same or do you find there is room for improvement? What would you do? (Video refereeing anyone?).

My goal with this is simply to understand what is the general perception of the forum users around all europe, with everyone bias, since most of us only watch the games our teams are involved.
1. I think refereeing is overall good, but I understand, why others might think differently. I think that some people think it is crap, can be explained the same way, why some people think horoscopes are telling the future. If you read a horoscope and it doesn't come true, you just forget it. It was just some text you read a while ago. Nothing important. But if it comes true, there is a big "Wow, the horoscope predicted that!" moment. Suddenly horoscopes are not superstitious hogwash anymore. I think the same way it is with refereeing. When the referee is not making mistakes, you don't really remember all the right decisions. He was just doing his job and there is nothing to complain and think and talk about later. But if he makes a mistake, especially a mistake which caused your team to lose, that will be big in your mind. You will remember it. And if it happens again in a later game, it gets added to the previous wrong decision. And after a while you can recall countless bad decisions, while all the right decisions, which were made in the same time, are forgotten and ignored.

2. I think clear wrong game deciding decisions are probably quite equally distributed, but you just remember it again more, if an underdog suffers because of it. If the favourite suffers under it and it is not your own team, it is just not so much of a moment to get angry about and remember that incident. I think though, when it comes to decisions with a certain amount of leeway, where even after seeing replays people will have different opinions about what the right decision would have been, referees might here and there slightly favour the bigger names, especially, when they play at home. I think they might get impressed by the atmosphere or subconsciously influenced by the big interest the game gets in the public and he himself, if he makes a wrong decision against the big team. I think referees sometimes act after the motto, when in doubt, don't whistle against the big team, while the same motto might not be as strong in the case of a small team.

3. I am not a fan of constant video refereeing. For once I think in a lot of instances it is quite useless. It happens quite often that even after replays the situation is far from clear and people will judge what they see totally different. And then it will take some time. So at most I would be ok with each trainer being able to contest two decisions per game. Not more. So for example in case a wrong decision caused your opponents to make a goal or a player from you got to send off, you can contest. Something dramatically wrong doesn't usually happen to a team more than two times a game either way. With smaller wrong decisions a team has to live with.
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Arges Pitesti
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Post by Arges Pitesti »

JK wrote:.

It happens quite often that even after replays the situation is far from clear and people will judge what they see totally different.

Ok, in this case the ruling on the field will stand as called. :wink:

So at most I would be ok with each trainer being able to contest two decisions per game. Not more. So for example in case a wrong decision caused your opponents to make a goal or a player from you got to send off, you can contest. Something dramatically wrong doesn't usually happen to a team more than two times a game either way. With smaller wrong decisions a team has to live with.
This would be perfect! :applause: :thumbs:
"Better lose one match 5-0 than five 1-0" W. Boskov
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Aliceag
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Post by Aliceag »

Ok. On the one hand I'm glad I'm not the only one concerned about this issue, on the other it seems the ones concerned are few. A lot of typical posters didn't even bother to answer or comment the situation, so it seems for them football is just entertainment and not a sport or a game. As such, polemic and referees changing results either random or deliberately seems not to bother them or even to be something positive since it adds entertainment... i see... very different conceptions about the game in the first place.
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bugylibicska
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Post by bugylibicska »

Well, I`m convinced that most referees are in the pockets of big money, so most dubious decisions favour the big clubs. None of them would risk their jobs to act like Robin Hood. How to change that? I don`t know, probably ask God to create a better, fairer world next time. About technology, I`d support it, but not in every aspect. There`re situations where even the Supreme Court have split decisions, so who knows? Would be nice though to somehow weed out the most blatant ``mistakes`` that change the course of the game and reverse a well deserved win or draw to a loss, courtesy of an overzealous, biased ref or worse, a corrupt one.
Todor
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Post by Todor »

The Americans have never understood and will never understand football. Ever since they started MLS, they've been trying to 'improve' it by implementing rules (penalty shoot-out from the centreline, countdown clocks, stopping the time in some dead ball situations) all of them proving bad.
The problem is that IMO football is not very suitable for viseo referring. Unlike Ameriacan football, tennis and volleyball, where the majority of the decisions are objective, in football almost all of them are subjective. Apart of the line calls, all the rest are down to ref's discretion. What is a foul for one ref might not be a foul for another and still both decisions will be correct. Same with the yellow/red cards. It's up to the ref to make these decisions, sometimes helped by his assistants. If he is consistant throughout the game, then everything is allright.
So if there is a contact in the penalty box and the ref blows for a penalty, on what basis would the video ref overrule his decision? The video ref will be equally right/wrong as the main referree. I just don't see how a foul play can be reviewed. Same with the yellow/red cards. Why should the video ref opinion be of more value than the main ref's one.
greenbay
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Post by greenbay »

There is only one problem that the Americans do have with 'soccer'. It's those 45 minutes without commerical breaks. The video ref is just for TV to have two commercial breaks per halftime in which the game is at a full stop for 90 seconds worth of advertising on Viagra pills and fuel consuming pickup trucks, while the video ref does make his decision. Like they are used to in the NFL.
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Ricardo
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Post by Ricardo »

I think most referees do the best they can,
But also 22(!) players are trying to influence him, trick him during the whole game.

I don't mind a little mistake now and then, but I wouldn't mind some electronic help.
off-side could be done electronically, like described here. Where the chip should be? It doesn't matter, rules have changed that 'on one line' is not off-side anymore, as it was too diffcult. why would this (halve a) meter really matter.

And afraid that the match is hold up too much? Give each team 2 or max. 3 calls. Of course if they are right, it doesn't count. If the match is hold up too much, it's the referees mistakes that causes it. Correct i think

Also I think that punishment should be possible based on videos. Also if the referee has seen it and has acted on it(a rule that applies currently in Holland that makes some fauls not to be followed up, as the referee has already acted on it. But a referee can see it wrong or not all.
Of course the referee should have a say in this punishment, as he knows the flow of the game...
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Aliceag
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Post by Aliceag »

BaBy Steps: Goal line technology in Euro 2016 and then CL.
Netherlands to test video referee... we'll get there...
Play fair and square!
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Aliceag
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Post by Aliceag »

http://quality.fifa.com/en/VAR/

And

http://www.theguardian.com/football/201 ... -infantino

Mission accomplished. Sometimes it pays off to demand.
Now let's see how it really works and if lives up to our expectations.
Play fair and square!
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