CL reform for the 2018-2021 cycle

[Pete Wisdom]

I would like the merge, these low league champions are only lowering the quality.

That sounds like a half-measure. Why not remove them from the qualifications altogether?

[SteffenM]

So the sent material was probably the suggestion by UEFA,
but have faced more resistance then they expected from the leagues outside of top 4 (EPFL) and most of the clubs in ECA.

That's at least how I understand it, because if not, something more specific would have been sent out.
Also important note, was that the proposed reform was made, meanwhile UEFA had no leadership. Not sure in which direction UEFA works now.

The decisions have been made. The marketing for the 2018-21 period has already started. That cannot simply be undone by a new decision. They just take their time to fill in the details. As pointed out above there still is time to do so. That's how I look at it.

The marketing? How?
I wonder how difficult it to be, to do a confirmation, if this was so.

But maybe something will happend soon
ECA should have a meeting next week and
EPFL have EPFL Joint Strategic Committees in Manchester 6/9
and EPFL Board of Directors Milan, Italy 14/9, although I have no clue what the agenda is.

I talk with a guy, who knows something.
He also expect it to happend, but was unsure about there was any confirmation regarding this.

The only thing I can find is this, from marts.
http://www.ecaeurope.com/media-area/med ... petitions/

The General Assembly provided a platform to review and reflect on the approved club competition reform for the 2018-21 cycle and to start the consultation and coordination process concerning the subsequent 2021-24 cycle.

More concretely, UEFA Deputy General Secretary, Giorgio Marchetti, used the opportunity to present a precise, fact-based analysis of the sporting and commercial value of the new 2018-21 competition concept. He highlighted the fact that both competitions, the Champions League and Europa League, will remain open to clubs from all associations, which is a key component for unity in European club football.

Not sure, how to read this. Because, if it is so, why haven't it been bigger news.
I mean, from marts!!??

ECA Chairman Karl-Heinz Rummenigge said:

"The club competition reform is without a single doubt very good news for all clubs in Europe. Everyone in European club football, and I am saying this with total conviction, will benefit from this reform. It is a fair, qualitative and serious decision that speaks to our solidarity in European club football. The reform will make the Champions League more emotional and stronger than ever before. I am convinced that we will find a good solution as well for 2021-24, which will further highlight our unity."

If anything is ever without a single doubt, you know you are getting shit in your eyes. Of course there is ups and downsides with every political decsion. The difference is how strong the ups and downs is. And sure, for Karl-Heinz Rummernigge and Bayern München the upsides are better then the low sides :/

[SteffenM]

I would like the merge, these low league champions are only lowering the quality.

That sounds like a half-measure. Why not remove them from the qualifications altogether?

Well, if they are good enough they will win, no matter which path.

The split of two paths, is made to help the champions and spread the UEFA competetions to more countries,
but if the champions are good enough, they will also win against the participants from the league route.

One thing is the idea it self, it is both good and sympathetic,
but people forget that it also becomes an argument for those wanting a closed champions league, or at least a champions league with 4 teams from the top countries.

Barcelona vs. Ludogorets just isn't that interesting, when Ludogorets have had help to get their.
Barcelona vs. Porto, will still have a favorite, but still more interesting.

Dynamo Zagreb, Ludogorets, Copenhagen, Celtic, APOEL, Olympiakos, Salzburg etc.
Can do in Europe League, and if they one or more years are good enough to beat Sevilla, Steaua Bucuresti, Napoli, Young Boys, Liverpool, Nice, CSKA Moscow, 1899 Hoffenheim, Sporting CP Lisbon, Istanbul Basaksehir,
well then awesome, and no worries. Then they proved their worth.

[Pete Wisdom]

...

[Pete Wisdom]

Barcelona vs. Ludogorets just isn't that interesting, when Ludogorets have had help to get their.
Barcelona vs. Porto, will still have a favorite, but still more interesting.

I have zero interest in either.

One thing is the idea it self, it is both good and sympathetic,
but people forget that it also becomes an argument for those wanting a closed champions league, or at least a champions league with 4 teams from the top countries.

By all means, do the closed champions league right now. There's barely any difference between almost closed as it is now and closed, and at least I will know not to waste my time on this crap. But don't do half-measures and pretend it's not what it is.

I would be all for one qualification path if there were 16 spots to grab like ten years ago, not six.

[bert.kassies]

The marketing? How?

Excuse me, "marketing" is not the right word. I meant the media rights sales. E.g. see Media content rights sales.

As far as I see the other discussions are on the changes for the 2021-24 period, and not for changes to the 2018-21 period.

[krdel]

I would like the merge, these low league champions are only lowering the quality.

That sounds like a half-measure. Why not remove them from the qualifications altogether?

Who, champions or non-champions? As far as I'm concerned they can remove the non-champions and have format like years before, no problem.

I just want a competition, where all teams are treated equal, no special paths and whatever. I would also like less (or none) direct group stage places.

[Pete Wisdom]

Who, champions or non-champions?

The low league champions, who you said "are only lowering the quality". That sure sounded like you don't want them there.

[krdel]

No, I don't want them in special path, not in competition. If they can win properly, that's great, in fact I like that.

But I hate UEFA treating them specially and pity them by giving places out of compassion. At least that's how it looks like now. This way they are just lowering the quality and they will never catch up.
First, we need all clubs in one path for quality.
Second, we will than see which ones do bad and then we make strategy how to make CL more competitive.

I want strong Crvena Zvezda, Partizan, Slavia etc in CL, not some current Partizan, Slavia... who will loose all six matches.

[SteffenM]

No, I don't want them in special path, not in competition. If they can win properly, that's great, in fact I like that.

But I hate UEFA treating them specially and pity them by giving places out of compassion. At least that's how it looks like now. This way they are just lowering the quality and they will never catch up.
First, we need all clubs in one path for quality.
Second, we will than see which ones do bad and then we make strategy how to make CL more competitive.

And the same thing is what happends to EL now.

You are lowering the quality of some of the participants in the tournement, which will damage the whole competetion.

One of the reason I like EL more then CL, it is much more balanced. But this new championship route is damaging that.
Why not make one common group and the best can win. That's like when you are making rules for how many men and women should be directors, board members etc. Why not just let the best no matter what, be.

[krdel]

Exactly that.

[SteffenM]

I would like the merge, these low league champions are only lowering the quality.

That sounds like a half-measure. Why not remove them from the qualifications altogether?

Who, champions or non-champions? As far as I'm concerned they can remove the non-champions and have format like years before, no problem.

I just want a competition, where all teams are treated equal, no special paths and whatever. I would also like less (or none) direct group stage places.

I 2nd that

And in my impressation is that, the most on this forum would have less direct places as well, and more to play for in the qualifyings.

Excuse me, "marketing" is not the right word. I meant the media rights sales. E.g. see Media content rights sales.

As far as I see the other discussions are on the changes for the 2021-24 period, and not for changes to the 2018-21 period.

Ah alright

However, I can't see anyone in this material the new media contracts should depend on the access list.
http://www.uefa.com/MultimediaFiles/Dow ... WNLOAD.pdf

[Club-Mate]

if you just take the best of the best into CL you would see Real Sociedad, Everton, Lazio etc in CL . Maybe 3-4 other teams out of place 5. That league you can call money league - budget 150 mio plus.

[Pete Wisdom]

So half the GS is divided among four countries, but the ones that have only one team that has to go through four rounds of qualification are the ones that are treated specially.

And the teams that probably wouldn't survive EL qualis and the teams who don't really wanna be there are given places in EL GS, but the champions path is what lowers the quality and damages the whole competition.

This is very interesting.

[hertolo]

I agree that the strength of the europa league is how balanced it is. It is great fun to watch in the stadium, but honestly, I only watch when there's a team of my country/I am very interested in playing. There are two evenings of matches behind and a weekend full of them in front. But that doesn't matter as people will always choose the best games to watch and there is a mix of better and worse ones allowed.

But the imbalance is too stark with the Champions League so I don't mind combining the two paths. It just means advancing depends even more on the luck of the draw as it means a second-place can make it in while the champion doesn't. But that's okay as Europa League is fine as well. The qualifying stuff is just side fights.

Two points are bad to my untrained eye and the things most needed to get competitive surge again:

1) The qualifying starts too early in the summer. Why let most clubs fight to get into Europe in the spring, only to have the majority of them out by August 20? Find a format that keeps them into fall (but not too long) and makes everybody start at the same time. It's easier to plan for both club and fans.

2) No dropping to the Europa League. It's kinda fine in August before the competition starts, but it kills the competition in the Spring when it makes the fall game not matter all that much. If you need a prize for the third placed teams in the CL, find something else, but don't drop them to the EL, winning your group or advancing as second should matter.

(Or alternatively, turn the Champions League into a true league with larger groups)

I know I may have missed the point of the discussion here completely, but I'm sorry I felt like writing it down, football has started again