CL reform for the 2018-2021 cycle

including formats, draws, seedings, etc.
greenbay
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Post by greenbay »

Todor wrote:The match between the 17th placed Benfica and the 13th placed Arsenal will beat all records for TV audiences.
With 4 teams to relegate to Division Two, the match between 17th placed Benfica and 13th placed Arsenal with 6 weeks still to go, will generate a bigger TV audience than Estorial vs Moreirense or than Everton vs WBA with 6 weeks still to go do combined.
When only 1st place matters, they will have to introduce American style play-offs to make sure they won't end up with a dead rubber after round 24 for example when Barca already have a 10 pts lead over the second placed team.
Make it 4 playoffs spots. Best of three semi final. Better ranked team get homefield in the potential third match. All of a sudden, every game in the regular season counts, escepially for all those 10 pts or more behind Barca. You desperately want to make 2nd or 3rd, not 4th.
Besides you underestimate the outrage of the fans of the teams which will be left outside of the Super League. Will you give a reason why Hamburg fans will follow Bayern or even worse Leverkusen in a competition, they only have an extremely outside chance to take part in and even paying money to watch them?
Can you imagine how much those 24 being in the first edition of the Super League care about Hamburg? As much as they do care about Legia.
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Post by Todor »

greenbay wrote:
Todor wrote:The match between the 17th placed Benfica and the 13th placed Arsenal will beat all records for TV audiences.
With 4 teams to relegate to Division Two, the match between 17th placed Benfica and 13th placed Arsenal with 6 weeks still to go, will generate a bigger TV audience than Estorial vs Moreirense or than Everton vs WBA with 6 weeks still to go do combined.
I'm not sure the idea of the Super League includes every 6th team to be relegated. Too much uncertainty. They will want as fewer relegation spots as possible, otherwise the risk is huge. Imagine Arsenal leaving the EPL to join the SuperLeague and then being relegated. It means bankruptcy.
Besides you underestimate the outrage of the fans of the teams which will be left outside of the Super League. Will you give a reason why Hamburg fans will follow Bayern or even worse Leverkusen in a competition, they only have an extremely outside chance to take part in and even paying money to watch them?
Can you imagine how much those 24 being in the first edition of the Super League care about Hamburg? As much as they do care about Legia.
They will not care about them, but they will need their fans' money. And this money will be gone, at least part of them. The other part will stay with Hamburg and Legia. Unlike the American sports where the major leagues have no competition, it's not the same (thank's God) in the European Football. IMO the stakes are just too high at the moment. The big teams will not take the risk for 10 or 15 per cent raise in their income. They will ask for much more if they are to split.

Edit: Anyway Ceferin was elected so Van Praag's intentions are no more relevant. :(
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Post by nemesys »

Todor wrote:Edit: Anyway Ceferin was elected so Van Praag's intentions are no more relevant. :(
Yep, expected, like in any soap opera. :wink: :mrgreen:
Malko wrote:If everyone would cancel his pay-TV contract like i did, European Cups surely but slowly would become interesting again.
Out of 5985 post that you have in this forum, this is the most daring, yet the most valuable one. Chapeau! :!:
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Post by Malko »

..on the other side, if you seee the results of Celtic or Rostov......
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Post by Thunder_PT »

Malko wrote:..on the other side, if you seee the results of Celtic or Rostov......
Yeah, this only reinforces their idea. In a way, Sporting winning at the Bernabeu would be one of the most important things that could happen to European football right now. Also Brugge beating Leicester convincingly.
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Post by bjkman1903 »

Malko wrote:..on the other side, if you seee the results of Celtic or Rostov......
Let's be honest, Barça, Bayern and Real are stronger than anybody else. It's not like if you replace Celtic by Milan and Rostov by Inter that the result would have been much different. Truth is that yesterday's Barça would have destroyed at least half of this year's CL participants.
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Post by Ricardo »

I think a second tier club competition with teams like Shakthar, Ajax, Anderlecht, Sporting, Basel, Kopenhavn. Moskou could raise lots of interest!
Maybe they are not the top-15 teams, but between these clubs lots of clubs will have a chance of winning it. And i am sure that viewers in these countries will follow this seocnd tier competition closely.
Maybe final rounds will be less interesting if your countries representant has been eliminated, so that should be dealt with (2 groups with groupwinners playing teh final)? But I can see that being interesting and possible.
Will it be here in 10-15 years?
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Post by Forza AZ »

Ricardo wrote:I think a second tier club competition with teams like Shakthar, Ajax, Anderlecht, Sporting, Basel, Kopenhavn. Moskou could raise lots of interest!
If this means these clubs would not play in their national league anymore, I think a lot of fans would protest, since except for the wealthy few it will get impossible to visit (most) away games of your team. Which will not be good for the atmosphere at matches.
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Post by nemesys »

Forza AZ wrote:
Ricardo wrote:I think a second tier club competition with teams like Shakthar, Ajax, Anderlecht, Sporting, Basel, Kopenhavn. Moskou could raise lots of interest!
If this means these clubs would not play in their national league anymore, I think a lot of fans would protest, since except for the wealthy few it will get impossible to visit (most) away games of your team. Which will not be good for the atmosphere at matches.
Such second tier has forcefully to be a league? Cannot be a midweek cup? Our guess it is that it will not be a cup, huh? :wink:

The way I see it. There are products born and made for TV, like sitcoms, reality shows, variety show, talents contests, many other TV shows, and so on. These are modeled upon, and adapt to TV needs. There are products born for a public in a hall or a stadium, like a violin concert or a football match. Now, if TV wants to broadcast a violin concert, it is not like it dictates rules: TV schedule adapts to such event, and the event itself it is not manipulated to please TV requests. If it is a really important event, and TV coverage is needed, then the concert organization, and the musician protagonists, can adapt a bit to TV needs, but still, in everyone mind the customer is the public in the hall, and organizer and musicians set up the final schedule, not the TV channel. In football, is the opposite, why? We got to the point that TVs dictates. I don't buy it, there is not the need to do so, there is the will to do so. Uefa should handle this evolution way better. I can understand that up to some level, it makes sense, football is very popular, and so TV coverage is needed, people watching the match at home is a lot, numerically wise. However, up to this point, I mean change the whole nature of the event, making it something completely different, it is not like broadcasting an event anymore, it is fixing something which wasn't broken (three European Cups), to make a new product (a Super League) to replace the old one, taking possession of all the history behind it. It is not like European football competitions are on TV anymore, it is more like, TVs replaced Uefa competitions with another product which they can commercialize better, and this trends, year after year, is more evident and more arrogant: it feels like soon TVs will impose clubs to wear specific shirts with colors that better adapt to TV needs or sponsor requests. So, no wonders if "the atmosphere at matches" won't be the same. No complains, it is Uefa authority to chose. Still, it is a bitter truth. Funny thing is, Uefa won the trial against G14 about who owns the rights on the Champions Cup years ago; after then, either Uefa was weak defending its competitions, or it was easily corrupted, or you chose whatever other version you please (I have my own idea about it), but seeing the results and the future plans, it feels like they lost.
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Post by Friesland »

Todor wrote:It looks as though there is still a chance for the decision to be reverted if Michael Van Praag is elected for UEFA president:
http://www.eurosport.com/football/van-p ... tory.shtml
You should check Van Praag's role within UEFA. He's member of both the club competitions committee (vice chair and previously chairman) and the executive committee (also vice chair), he must have known exactly what was going on and he didn't signal any opposition to this "reform" before. In fact, he might be the main force behind this reform. Good thing, he got rejected today.

Of course, that doesn't make Ceferin necessarily better, he simply remains a big unknown. We'll know in a few years.
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Post by bugylibicska »

Friesland wrote:
Todor wrote:It looks as though there is still a chance for the decision to be reverted if Michael Van Praag is elected for UEFA president:
http://www.eurosport.com/football/van-p ... tory.shtml
You should check Van Praag's role within UEFA. He's member of both the club competitions committee (vice chair and previously chairman) and the executive committee (also vice chair), he must have known exactly what was going on and he didn't signal any opposition to this "reform" before. In fact, he might be the main force behind this reform. Good thing, he got rejected today.

Of course, that doesn't make Ceferin necessarily better, he simply remains a big unknown. We'll know in a few years.
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Ricardo
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Post by Ricardo »

Forza AZ wrote:
Ricardo wrote:I think a second tier club competition with teams like Shakthar, Ajax, Anderlecht, Sporting, Basel, Kopenhavn. Moskou could raise lots of interest!
If this means these clubs would not play in their national league anymore, I think a lot of fans would protest, since except for the wealthy few it will get impossible to visit (most) away games of your team. Which will not be good for the atmosphere at matches.

I thought of it as being midweeks competition, might be same days as CL.... Just that tou get the A teams and the B teams Each with its own competition in Europe.
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Post by Forza AZ »

Ricardo wrote:I thought of it as being midweeks competition, might be same days as CL.... Just that tou get the A teams and the B teams Each with its own competition in Europe.
OK, that could work. It is almost exactly what the top clubs want, but then with a relegation system.

Also a bit like what I posted here a few times before:
-CL with 20 teams in 2 groups of 10. Bottom 2 relegated to EL
-EL with QR's followed by a 64 team group stage (in stead of 48 now). Semifinalists promoted to CL

Only way to get into the CL would be via the EL, so teams that play in the EL would have to take it seriously compared to their national league, in which you can "only" qualify for the EL.

If you start this CL in the current dates for Q3, you can play the 18 matches just like the current calendar. And play the final (or final-4) in the week reserved for the final.
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Post by krdel »

It's great Čeferin won, we finally got rid of him. :)
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Post by gukfvaEU »

Guys, I am not up to date with all these plans of Superleague.
Do we know which clubs decided to take part in this new project?
Bayern, Barca, RM, MU, Juve, Arsenal, MC, PSG and who else?

I would like them to create the new closed competition for 10-15 top clubs and am probably sure that TV-market benefits may be lower than from CL.

One condition:
the rest (Ajax, PSV, Brugge, Anderlecht, Basel, Sparta, Dinamo, Steaua, Olympiacos, Rapid Vienna, Celtic, Rangers and medium clubs from top leagues) must promote strongly the new format of Eurocups - open for everybody.
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