attendances....

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Malko
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attendances....

Post by Malko »

Often, we read the absolute attendances in football.......Germany leading in Europe aso......
Now, what would be inzerested is, if we would take always the ratio attendance/inhabitants, .a first approach would be match by match....but what a work to do...
And also : people who g and see x vs y , do not necessary come from y.......

Now let's make it more easy.......

we multiply the average attendance in a country by the number of matches on a matchday, and divide this by the number of inhabitants of the country..........that gives a figure that means something.

Lets take Luxembourg: The average attendance 2015/16 was 449 . There are 7 matches on a mathchday. So in average 7 x 449 =3 143 people went on a football groun d (only first league) par day....563 000 people lived in Luxembourg last season....makes a ratio of 3143 : 563 000 = 0,55 % .. :-(

Now take Germany .: 42 421 x 17 : 80 620 000 = 0,894 %
France : 20 894 x 19 : 66 030 000 = 0,60 %

who wants to make the ratio for other countries.......this shows that the attendances in some countries are not as much higher than in others as some want to make believe.....

well, amusing :
Monaco 8049 x 1 : 22 300 = 36,09 %
Munich (Monaco in Italia): 71 000 x 1 : 1 388 000 = 5,11 %
Football is 6 times more popular in Monaco than in Munich :-)

.....now, absolute figures......which are the 10 most visited stadiums in Europe: Dortmund, Madrid, Manchester United, Barcelona, bayern Munich,Schalke 04 , arsenal, Hamburger , Marseille, Moenchengladbach........but in real ratio, it would be very different....
mieszambeton
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Post by mieszambeton »

so maybe they should build a stadium for 400,000 in Munich.
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Malko
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Post by Malko »

miszambeton...well...maybe yes........but i want to show that the relative figures are much more important thanthe absolute.....even in France, some small towns have bigger populrity.....Guingamp has more spectators than inhabitants.......but yes, people from outside come to watch...so it is fair to compare by countries.....and so, not automatically the one with the biggest absolute attendance is the one with the best ratio, and ratio says popularity......example.....is the Journal from RTL Luxembourg more popular than the Journal de TF1 ?...the second has millions of spectators, the first dozens of millions.....but the second is in Luxembourg and the other on ein France.....the popularity is only possible if yu compare to the habitants....the same for football.
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Post by greenbay »

If you compare attendances, then please do so for all football matches from top level to beer belly league in a country every week. Not just for the top 8 or top 10 matches. As otherwise you are comparing apples and oranges, as long as the number of top flight matches is somewhat equal, regardless if it's Luxembourg or Germany :!:
Lets take Luxembourg: The average attendance 2015/16 was 449
That's an average fifth level attendance in Germany. Even some sixth level leagues can compete with that. :mrgreen:
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Malko
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Post by Malko »

greenbay i would like to......consider all matches, but this is quite impossible.......so i tale only the Toplevel in each country.......this seems correct, when you see that the the ratio is not really different from one country to another ......
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Post by spoonman »

Oh dear... Yet another anti-Bundesliga thread that's driven by Malko's inferiority complex. It's off-topic here because it's about domestic leagues, and it's full of logical and factual errors. Hard to believe that a mathematics professor could sink so low.
Malko wrote:Now take Germany .: 42 421 x 17 : 80 620 000 = 0,894 %
France : 20 894 x 19 : 66 030 000 = 0,60 %
Don't know where the 17 and 19 games come from. Obviously, it should be 9 games for Germany and 10 for France. But why make it so complicated and multiply the average attendance by the number of games per matchday? Just use the total league attendance per season and divide it by the number of inhabitants.
this shows that the attendances in some countries are not as much higher than in others as some want to make believe.....
A spectator is a spectator. A ticket sold is a ticket sold. A full stadium looks better on TV than an empty one. Clubs and leagues that want to be competitive in Europe need sustainable funding, based on a mix of revenue sources, and gate receipts are still one of these sources. Unless you've got a suggar daddy who covers all the expenses. And even a sugar daddy's club without any fans will have problems in the long run because such a construct is bad for TV ratings and for the reputation of the league. See Monaco. Or Wolfsburg, who can't fill their stadium for CL games.
well, amusing :
Monaco 8049 x 1 : 22 300 = 36,09 %
Munich (Monaco in Italia): 71 000 x 1 : 1 388 000 = 5,11 %
Football is 6 times more popular in Monaco than in Munich :-)
Really?
Where did you find the figure of 22,300 inhabitants for Monaco? Wikipedia says it's 37,800.
Bayern's league attendance (after the latest stadium expansion) is 75,000 - not 71,000.
And if you're talking about the popluarity of football in Munich, you'd have to take other clubs into account as well, namely 1860 Munich.

And it's also amusing that you compared Monaco and Munich. Why not take Gelsenkirchen and Paris? In the end, it's nonsense to compare the population of towns and cities from different countries because the administrative structure isn't comparable. For example, which figure would you use for Paris? Just 2.2m for the city itself (which would be less than Berlin), or 12.4m for the metropolitan area? Also, a town's size can become quite irrelevant for a football club. Teams like Mönchengladbach or Kaiserslautern traditionally attract fans from an entire region. I'm sure there are similar situations in other countries.
.....now, absolute figures......which are the 10 most visited stadiums in Europe: Dortmund, Madrid, Manchester United, Barcelona, bayern Munich,Schalke 04 , arsenal, Hamburger , Marseille, Moenchengladbach........
Marseille had an average attendance of ~44,000 last season, which is nowhere near the top 10 in Europe.
but in real ratio, it would be very different....
If you're talking about the "real ratio" (whatever that might be), why not take the stadium capacity percentage into account? For example, Dortmund and Bayern are always sold out. They could easily sell 200,000 tickets per game. The same probably goes for Liverpool, Man United, and maybe a couple of other English clubs.

Last season, 18 out of 20 Premier League clubs had a stadium capacity rate of more than 90%. In the Bundesliga, it was 15 out of 18. In Ligue 1, it was just 2 out of 20 - one of them being PSG, the other one GFC Ajaccio with a capacity of 4,000.
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Post by abzpablo »

I once read that Scotland had the best supported league per head in Europe, other than Albania.
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Malko
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Post by Malko »

spoonman, no stadium capacity does not mean much.......especially if there are big stadiums in small towns, like Lens...... .

Ratio stadium capacity/inhabitants town per town could be interesting........so Metz has a bigger Stadium than Marseille or Munich :-).

I think the most interesting is attendance/population,...for each club and especially each country.
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Post by SteffenM »

Malko wrote:spoonman, no stadium capacity does not mean much.......especially if there are big stadiums in small towns, like Lens...... .

Ratio stadium capacity/inhabitants town per town could be interesting........so Metz has a bigger Stadium than Marseille or Munich :-).

I think the most interesting is attendance/population,...for each club and especially each country.
My home village had a match with 711 attendance and there is only 500 inhabitans.
That's more then 100 % guess that is difficult to beat by both München and Metz.

So my home village are bigger/better then München?


In the top flight (of Denmark)
Hobro have a record of 6.596 attendance in a city with 11.736 inhabitans.
Do Metz have half the city into their stadium?


(semi off topic,
haven't we discussed this before?)
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Post by Les_Canaris »

Attendance debates are so boring. It's like arguing over who's dick is bigger to try and impress the girl in a bar.... the fact is she doesn't care and thinks your both assholes :lol:.
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Malko
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Post by Malko »

Les_Canaris this debate has an origin. german forumists claiming always that their League is the most popular in the own country because they have the biggest attendances in Bundesliga......what i wanted to say is that they also have the biggest population.......nd if you see my posts before, you'll notice that i always claim that attendance is of no use.....that Ligue 1 is not weaker because there are less people in Guingamp than in Moenchengladbach or Sevilla.... .

Another thing is this "goal average paer match" which is completely absurd, if you really count, how many goals a spectator following all the home matches of his team then will see ? It's minimal !
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Post by SteffenM »

Malko wrote:german forumists claiming always that their League is the most popular in the own country
Yeah, wouldn't anything else be weird?

If you mean overall the most popular league, I haven't read any German forumists claiming they got more viewers then the EPL for instance.

Looks like your are debating for the sake of debating, and not to a higher understanding of anything.
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Post by HibeeJibee »

Using top division average attendances (from European Football Statistics website for 2015-16 / 2015 season) and 1st July 2015 population estimates (from Wikipedia list) the average attendance in each league at each top division game expressed as a percentage of population is as follows...

0.853% - Faroe Islands
0.334% - Iceland
0.290% - Cyprus
0.179% - Scotland
0.130% - Switzerland
0.129% - Norway
0.127% - Denmark
0.114% - Netherlands
0.105% - Belgium
0.104% - Portugal
0.101% - Sweden
0.090% - Montenegro
0.082% - Israel
0.078% - Luxembourg
0.075% - Slovenia
0.072% - Austria
0.066% - England
0.061% - Spain
0.057% - Croatia
0.055% - Moldova
0.053% - Germany
0.051% - Albania
0.051% - Northern Ireland
0.048% - Czech Republic
0.044% - Slovakia
0.042% - Bosnia & Herzegovina
0.040% - Finland
0.039% - FYR Macedonia
0.036% - Greece
0.036% - Ireland
0.036% - Italy
0.035% - Serbia
0.031% - France
0.029% - Bulgaria
0.026% - Azerbaijan
0.026% - Hungary
0.024% - Estonia
0.024% - Latvia
0.023% - Poland
0.021% - Georgia
0.020% - Armenia
0.020% - Kazakhstan
0.017% - Belarus
0.017% - Lithuania
0.016% - Romania
0.011% - Ukraine
0.010% - Turkey
0.010% - Wales
0.007% - Russia

No figures for Andorra, Gibraltar, Kosovo, Malta or San Marino
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Post by Todor »

HibeeJibee wrote:Using top division average attendances (from European Football Statistics website for 2015-16 / 2015 season) and 1st July 2015 population estimates (from Wikipedia list) the average attendance in each league at each top division game expressed as a percentage of population is as follows...

0.853% - Faroe Islands
Providing there are 5 matches per matchday, it means 4% or 1 in every 25th Faroese attends a football game each week. Knowing the quality of the football there, obviously there aren't a lot of entertainments at the islands :).
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Post by Greyn »

Top 226 clubs with average attendances above 10 000. Scroll down the page for the list. Dortmund are leaders with 81 178.
http://stadiony.net/publikacje/raporty/ ... cz_1_kluby

PS: 1st photo shows 20 clubs with most increasing attendances, 2nd photo - the opposite, most decreasing ones.
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