CL Group A: PSG - Arsenal - Basel - Ludogorets

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Overgame
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Post by Overgame »

Dragonite wrote: Ludogorets also failed to win a single match in this group (they won four in the qualifiers though, while the remaining Group A teams were directly qualified).
Quantitatively, this CL group performance was worse than in 2014/2015, when they got more points and won once. But qualitatively
They scored 4 points, and 4 points with a win is worse then 4 draws.
hertolo
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Post by hertolo »

Dragonite wrote: But maybe their opponent can hire Urs Fischer, the “Breaker of Chains”!

Basel had a good history against Ludogorets before he arrived and he ruined it. Basel also had a good history against Maccabi Tel-Aviv and he ruined it too last season.
Basel had a good history of advancing from group stages (in CL at least in third place continuing in the EL) for six seasons in a row, another chain that he ruined.
But there’s actually a much older chain that he ruined too. The last season that Basel failed to win a single match in its campaign was in 1978/1979!! After that they always won at least one in each of their following participations. He ruined that too.

He must be fired; I don’t know why they haven’t done it yet. He is ruining the reputation that was so hard to build.

Oh believe me, emotions are running high in the town. Many people are calling for him to be kicked off, ... but the situation is a bit more complicated.

First, you'd need to have a better coach available before you fire the old one. There are not many Swiss ones capable of the job though (Koller maybe, and Favre of course who will of course not come back to Switzerland).

Secondly, the question remains if he's really guilty of the disastrous season - or whether the circumstances are just changing. See the high wins in the Champions League and the high transfer sums. This was the most expensive and biggest FC Basel Team in history - and it didn't work out. In the end, it was just two games he botched (Ludo home and away). Is that enough to fire him? Or what are the long-term strategic goals for FC Basel. Before you haven't answered them, no need to fire the coach. And maybe there only need to be new visions at the top rather than with the first team.

Thirdly, it's only winter now. No need for a rapid decision especially as one should win the Swiss Championship easily. Then there remain one to three very important games. The Swiss Cup which we couldn't win for a few years due to our opponents motivation and us playing internationally (and bad luck, or whatever). Is it better to go into these games with a new coach - or can we change him out in Summer and it's still early enough?

I don't know what the club is thinking or doing, but I still trust them to act responsibly. That said, I wouldn't be surprised if he's fired soon.
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Post by Dragonite »

hertolo,

Why should the new coach be Swiss? His predecessor was Portuguese.

And no, it wasn’t “just 2 games”.
What about the two Maccabi Tel-Aviv matches last season?
These aren’t “just 2 games”, they are the most important games of the season.
It’s the difference between being in the CL and getting €14.7M (what Maccabi Tel-Aviv got for losing every match) or going to the EL and only getting €6.9M (what Basel got in its EL campaign).

This €7.8M difference was Fischer’s fault.
And this is only from a revenue loss point of view, there are also reputational damages.

And there is harder access to these prizes/privileges in future seasons, thanks to the things that he is doing now.

So again no, it wasn’t “just two” or “just four” matches, it was much more than that. :upset:
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hertolo
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Post by hertolo »

Dragonite wrote:hertolo,

Why should the new coach be Swiss? His predecessor was Portuguese.
... and was only the third non-swiss coach. And not liked at all, and everybody was happy when he went away.

The point is, Switzerland is a small country with no big clubs nor an interesting competition. So Basel can only attract 'foreign' players with the international games and with being a springboard to other more fancy leagues. That's not ideal for a coach. You'd want the coach to stay 2-x years so that he can set up his system. So, getting a foreign coach for Basel is a) pricey, b) risky and c) difficult.

Which brings us back to the long-term strategic output. As grand prizes will never be in reach for Basel (unless a "League of Middle nations" gets created with Amsterdam, Copenhagen, Anderlecht, Prague and so on - or the international system gets reformed dramatically), the question stays what's the best way forward economically. We don't want the same fate as Rosenborg Trondheim or (to a degree) Lyon.

So the question is not only who's the best available coach, but what are the goals and what are we ok to pay for that? Many people around here don't look at the coach as the main difference, but to the lack of "local Basel-born" players and "homegrown younguns". If you maybe go back to that, it will be a smaller club with less ambition, but not everybody will be opposed to such a rebuild. And again, the question remains whether it will still be possible for clubs from medium countries to have any success the way football is going.
And no, it wasn’t “just 2 games”.
What about the two Maccabi Tel-Aviv matches last season?
I tend to only analyze the current year, because last year everybody was happy. For example, that was the first time ever we won an international group.
These aren’t “just 2 games”, they are the most important games of the season.
It’s the difference between being in the CL and getting €14.7M (what Maccabi Tel-Aviv got for losing every match) or going to the EL and only getting €6.9M (what Basel got in its EL campaign).

This €7.8M difference was Fischer’s fault.
And this is only from a revenue loss point of view, there are also reputational damages.

And there is harder access to these prizes/privileges in future seasons, thanks to the things that he is doing now.

So again no, it wasn’t “just two” or “just four” matches, it was much more than that. :upset:
It's "just two or four matches" that make the people upset. Only the club counts the money and Basel is on safe ground to dominate or play a large part in Switzerland. Anything above is risky. Like the big investments this season. Better to maybe not be that ambitious and play it safe? Because you know, one last point: Fischer is the quintessential Swiss. He's a bit timid, very grounded, "not a professor", very correct, but "nice". Like, the opposite of Mourinho. This was also the reason he was chosen, because Souza was seen as arrogant and aloof. People here want someone they can see in the street...

Now again, the fans are not happy, attendance in the stadium is sinking and a certain kind of saturation has set in. "the magic is missing" was one headline a few weeks ago. So I woulnd't be sad when the club decides to change things up. But it's a bit more tricky than just "hire a expensive coach from somewhere else" and I (still) trust the club to make a sound, but not rash decision. You know, our winter break goes on until February 4th so there is really no hurry.

I hope that was a satisfying answer :)
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Dragonite
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Post by Dragonite »

hertolo wrote:I hope that was a satisfying answer :)
Yes it was. :wink:
Regardless of agreeing with everything or not, it’s always good to know other people’s point of view.

It seems he is a popular guy and people give more importance to his qualities than to his flaws.
With him the glass of water is always half full, while with others the same scenario (or even a better one) would be considered half empty instead.
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Post by hertolo »

Yes, exactly. Maybe Basel is just too small and/or too rich ;-). (And there is a lot of resentment, it's just not evenly spread around...).

It's always good to experience such interest from people from other countries for one's own club. I however want to stress finally again that the main problem for medium clubs like Basel stems from the differences between the international and the national level and that would need to be resolved by reform - or else you will have even more of the same clubs in the Quarter+ finals. (but you know that already :))
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