The Big7-League : ESP-GER-ENG-ITA-POR-FRA-RUS

[Zarastro]

Well, to borrow Malko's idea I'd like to create a ranking based only on the encounters of teams from the top teams. However since it would little sense to create a ranking based upon the 4 Top leagues and the ranks 5-7 are hotly contested, we'll include those instead. That way we'll have more samples and thus avoid giving countries with only a few games to distort the ranking too much. Only gamesduring and after the GS are counted. Please correct me if I make any mistakes (and I am probably going to make some due to the number of teams involved).

Spain: (W6 D2 L1) = 24/18


Sassoulo - Bilbao 3-0
Juventus-Sevilla 0-0
Real Madrid - Sporting Lissabon 2:1
Sevilla-Lyon 1-0
Dortmund-Real 2-2
Moenchengladbach-Barcelona 1-2
Atletico- Bayern Munich 1-0

3rd Matchday
FC Barcelona -:- Manchester City 4:0
FK Rostow -:- Atlético Madrid 0:1

4th Matchday
Manchester City -:- FC Barcelona 3:1
Atlético Madrid -:- FK Rostow 2:1

5th Matchday
Sporting Lissabon -:- Real Madrid 1:2
FC Sevilla -:- Juventus Turin 1:3
Athletic Bilbao -:- US Sassuolo Calcio 3:2

6th Matchday
FC Barcelona -:- Borussia Mönchengladbach 4:0
Real Madrid -:- Borussia Dortmund 2:2
Olympique Lyon -:- FC Sevilla 0:0
FC Bayern München -:- Atlético Madrid 1:0

Germany (W4 D5 L3) = 29/24

Bayer 04 Leverkusen - CSKA Moskau 2:2
FC Bayern München - FK Rostow 5:0
Manchester City- Moenchengladbach 4-0
Mainz - Saint-Etienne 1-1
Nice - Schalke 0-1
Monaco-Leverkusen 1-1
Dortmund-Real 2-2
Moenchengladbach-Barcelona 1-2
Atletico- Bayern Munich 1-0

3rd Matchday
Sporting Lissabon -:- Borussia Dortmund 1-2
Bayer 04 Leverkusen -:- Tottenham Hotspur 0-0
FK Krasnodar -:- FC Schalke 04 1:0

4th Matchday
Borussia Dortmund -:- Sporting Lissabon 1:0
Tottenham Hotspur -:- Bayer 04 Leverkusen 0:1
FC Schalke 04 -:- FK Krasnodar 2:0

5th Matchday
ZSKA Moskau -:- Bayer 04 Leverkusen 1:1
Manchester City -:- Borussia Mönchengladbach 1:1
FC Rostow -:- FC Bayern München 3:2
FC Schalke 04 -:- OGC Nizza 2:0
AS Saint-Étienne -:- 1. FSV Mainz 05 0:0

6th Matchday
FC Barcelona -:- Borussia Mönchengladbach 4:0
Real Madrid -:- Borussia Dortmund 1:1
FC Bayern München -:- Atlético Madrid 1:0
Bayer 04 Leverkusen -:- AS Monaco 3:0


England (W3 D2 L2) = 16/16

Paris SG - Arsenal 1-1
Manchester City- Moenchengladbach 4-0
Tottenham- Monaco 1-2
ZSKA Moskau - Tottenham Hotspur 0:1
Leicester City - FC Porto 1:0

3rd Matchday
FC Barcelona -:- Manchester City 4:0
Bayer 04 Leverkusen -:- Tottenham Hotspur 0-0
Inter Mailand -:- FC Southampton 1:0

4th Matchday
Manchester City -:- FC Barcelona 3:1
Tottenham Hotspur -:- Bayer 04 Leverkusen 0:1
Inter Mailand -:- FC Southampton 1:2

5th Matchday
FC Arsenal -:- Paris Saint-Germain 2:2
Borussia Mönchengladbach -:- Manchester City 1:1
AS Monaco -:- Tottenham Hotspur 2:1

6th Matchday
Tottenham Hotspur -:- ZSKA Moskau 3:1
FC Porto -:- Leicester City 5:0


Italy (W3 D1 L0) = 14/9

Juventus-Sevilla 0-0
Sassoulo - Bilbao 3-0
SSC Neapel - Benfica Lissabon 4:2

3rd Matchday
Olympique Lyon -:- Juventus Turin 0-1
Inter Mailand -:- FC Southampton 1:0

4th Matchday
Juventus Turin -:- Olympique Lyon 1:1
Inter Mailand -:- FC Southampton 1:2

5th Matchday
FC Sevilla -:- Juventus Turin 1:3

6th Matchday
Benfica Lissabon -:- SSC Neapel 1:2

Portugal (W0 D0 L5) = 2/8

Real Madrid - Sporting Lissabon 2:1
Leicester City - FC Porto 1:0
SSC Neapel - Benfica Lissabon 4:2

3rd Matchday
Sporting Lissabon -:- Borussia Dortmund 1-2

4th Matchday
Borussia Dortmund -:- Sporting Lissabon 1:0

5th Matchday
Sporting Lissabon -:- Real Madrid 1:2

6th Matchday
FC Porto -:- Leicester City 5:0
Benfica Lissabon -:- SSC Neapel 1:2


France (W1 D4 L 4 )= 16/18

Paris SG - Arsenal 1-1
Tottenham- Monaco 1-2
Mainz - Saint-Etienne 1-1
Nice - Schalke 0-1
Sevilla-Lyon 1-0
Monaco-Leverkusen 1-1
FK Krasnodar - OGC Nizza 5:2

3rd Matchday
ZSKA Moskau -:- AS Monaco 1-1
Olympique Lyon -:- Juventus Turin 0-1

4th Matchday
AS Monaco -:- ZSKA Moskau 3:0
Juventus Turin -:- Olympique Lyon 1:1

5th Matchday
FC Arsenal -:- Paris Saint-Germain 2:2
AS Monaco -:- Tottenham Hotspur 2:1
AS Saint-Étienne -:- 1. FSV Mainz 05 0:0
FC Schalke 04 -:- OGC Nizza 2:0

6th Matchday
Bayer 04 Leverkusen -:- AS Monaco 3:0
Olympique Lyon -:- FC Sevilla 0:0
OGC Nizza -:- FK Krasnodar 2:1

Russia (W1 D2 L2) = 7/13

Bayer 04 Leverkusen - CSKA Moskau 2:2
ZSKA Moskau - Tottenham Hotspur 0:1
FK Krasnodar - OGC Nizza 5:2

3rd Matchday
FK Rostow -:- Atlético Madrid 0:1
ZSKA Moskau -:- AS Monaco 1-1
FK Krasnodar -:- FC Schalke 04 0:1

4th Matchday
AS Monaco -:- ZSKA Moskau 3:0
Atlético Madrid -:- FK Rostow 2:1
FC Schalke 04 -:- FK Krasnodar 2:0

5th Matchday
FK Rostow -:- FC Bayern München 3:2
ZSKA Moskau -:- Bayer 04 Leverkusen 1:1

6th Matchday
Tottenham Hotspur -:- ZSKA Moskau 3:1
OGC Nizza -:- FK Krasnodar 2:1



Current ranking:
1) Italy 14/9 = 1,56
2) Spain 24/18= 1,33
3) Germany 29/24 =1,21
4)England 16/16= 1
5) France 16/18 = 0, 89
6) Russia 7/13 = 0,54
7) Portugal 2/8 = 0,25

[AlanK]

At Zarastro:

I didn't check many of your figures; will try when I have time. I'm especially glad that you didn't count qualifying rounds, which add the problem of different numbers of coefficient points for wins and ties--and then one would be stuck with half points. (Plus enlightened self-interest--I'm tired of Malko bragging about Monaco beating a Villarreal team in turmoil and missing eight first-team players ).

[Zarastro]

At Zarastro:

I didn't check many of your figures; will try when I have time. I'm especially glad that you didn't counted qualifying rounds, which add the problem of different numbers of coefficient points for wins and ties--and then one would be stuck with half points. (Plus enlightened self-interest--I'm tired of Malko bragging about Monaco beating a Villarreal team in turmoil and missing eight first-team players ).

It is already enough work as it is, no need to make it more complicated.

[Zarastro]

I am currently thinking about how to sort out an obvious flaw in the ranking: As it stands countries that play fewer games have an advantage over countries that play more, but i do not know how to fix thix. Any suggestions?

[Malko]

Zarastro good idea.....but for France (W1,D3,L3) is not 4/7 but 5/7 , so 0,71.

...and add the qualifying round (the last, cause every nation had to play it.......) This gives points to Portugal and France.

France is so : (W3,D3,L3), wich gives 9/9 =1. They pass Germany this way ...

there is NO reason not to count these matches, if we count ALL the european matches of a season.

[Zarastro]

@ Malko that would open some other issues. I have to draw the line somewhere.

[Malko]

Zarastro it's your choice. But i do not know what you call "other issues". It concerns ALL the games o direct confrontation between these nations in a season. If you lose a team in qualification (of EL) , the team counts for the coefficient. This means (unlikely the former intototo-cup), that the qualification rounds count for european cup. Especiall, all the big 7 nations had to play a round. it would be logical if it counts.....

Now, anyways, you have to change for France : it's 5/7 (1 win and 2 draws) , not 4/7 , even if you do not count the qualification round.

[AlanK]

Zarastro good idea.....but for France (W1,D3,L3) is not 4/7 but 5/7 , so 0,71.

...and add the qualifying round (the last, cause every nation had to play it.......) This gives points to Portugal and France.

France is so : (W3,D3,L3), wich gives 9/9 =1. They pass Germany this way ...

there is NO reason not to count these matches, if we count ALL the european matches of a season.

Read my exchange with Zarastro above--Qualifiers should not be included . . . but even if they were included, your count would be incorrect, since qualifying wins give one point, not two.

Edit: Malko, read what you wrote above. France is indeed 1-3-3, but in your post immediately above this one, you returned to the mistaken 1-2-3.

[Malko]

AlanK, opinion vs opinion......for me qualification round is included with full points. We start a real competition.....we even could do it, giving 3 points for a win........independently from UEFA-ranking......

[AlanK]

AlanK, opinion vs opinion......for me qualification round is included with full points. We start a real competition.....we even could do it, giving 3 points for a win........independently from UEFA-ranking......

Yup, and Zarastro is in charge here, not you. "We" could make it up any old way, but maybe we should stick a bit closer to meaningfulness, or reality. You want criteria that will show off France in the best possible light by awarding points that are NOT awarded by UEFA in any tabulation And those awarded for qualifying wins don't count for Monaco. And please, don't get started on bonus points

[Zarastro]

Malko, you are free to do so in your own thread. I'd like to avoid making things too difficult here.

Anyway, what game did I get wrong with France?

[SteffenM]

Oh my.

Can't we also have a top6, top8 and a top 17,5 thread?

This forum starts to be in need of a modeator.

[Zarastro]

To be fair, I asked whether Malko would do a Top 7 League and he refused. I do believe it is justifiable to have such a ranking, considering that those are undeniable the 7 dominant countries in Europe. Furthermore having 7 countries gives us more matches to consider.

[SteffenM]

To be fair, I asked whether Malko would do a Top 7 League and he refused. I do believe it is justifiable to have such a ranking, considering that those are undeniable the 7 dominant countries in Europe. Furthermore having 7 countries gives us more matches to consider.

I am not to judge whenever this or the other thread is irrelevant,
for me it just seems as there is one or two more then needed.

Could very well be Malko who is a trolling....something.

[AlanK]

Malko, you are free to do so in your own thread. I'd like to avoid making things too difficult here.

Anyway, what game did I get wrong with France?

Zarastro, you have the games correct, but 1-3-3 = 5, not 4. And Germany with 2-4-3 = 8, not seven. I keep getting trying to count this way--another good reason for not muddying the waters . . .

In support of this thread--I've messed around for years keeping Spain's record against every other country, but I've never tidied it up, which this will do nicely for the top seven.