2017/18 CL GRP B Bayern München x PSG x Anderlecht x Celtic

[Dragonite]

That's a good decision IMO, they sacked him before getting more damages for this season.

I disagree; they won’t find a better manager than him.

Heynckes also lost a CL MD2 match against BATE Borisov, they haven’t fired him and a few months later they were winning the CL.

Now they fired one of the World’s best coaches, probably will put some puppet-coach in his place, and he will be forced to say “amen” to anything that a handful of has-beens want, or he too will be fired.

And with this kind of circumstances it’s impossible to succeed. It would have been preferable to get rid of the rotten apples instead.

Celtic and Anderlecht are no threat to Bayern, even without 5 or 6 players, and in January they could just sign another 3 players and be ready to the KO stages.

Who are the mutineers by the way, anyone knows for sure or it’s just speculation?

[Duketown]

Decent clubs like Bayern always use feedback from squad in decisions like this. It's not a club with a dictator at top who's forcing all decisions. So in this case, Hoeness asked some core players like Robben, Ribéry, Boateng, Hummels and Coman how the locker rooms feels about the coach. All those players where benched against PSG, indicating this man uses politics to form his squad instead of qualities.

Ancelotti is is better of at an oligarch team and Bayern needs a modern trainer and 2 new attackers instead of Coman and Ribery.

[bugylibicska]

That's a good decision IMO, they sacked him before getting more damages for this season.

I disagree; they won’t find a better manager than him.

Heynckes also lost a CL MD2 match against BATE Borisov, they haven’t fired him and a few months later they were winning the CL.

Now they fired one of the World’s best coaches, probably will put some puppet-coach in his place, and he will be forced to say “amen” to anything that a handful of has-beens want, or he too will be fired.

And with this kind of circumstances it’s impossible to succeed. It would have been preferable to get rid of the rotten apples instead.

Celtic and Anderlecht are no threat to Bayern, even without 5 or 6 players, and in January they could just sign another 3 players and be ready to the KO stages.

Who are the mutineers by the way, anyone knows for sure or it’s just speculation?

Lewandowski, Muller and Robben were mentioned among 5 players who spoke up against him.

[bjkman1903]

That's a good decision IMO, they sacked him before getting more damages for this season.

I disagree; they won’t find a better manager than him.

Heynckes also lost a CL MD2 match against BATE Borisov, they haven’t fired him and a few months later they were winning the CL.

Now they fired one of the World’s best coaches, probably will put some puppet-coach in his place, and he will be forced to say “amen” to anything that a handful of has-beens want, or he too will be fired.

And with this kind of circumstances it’s impossible to succeed. It would have been preferable to get rid of the rotten apples instead.

Celtic and Anderlecht are no threat to Bayern, even without 5 or 6 players, and in January they could just sign another 3 players and be ready to the KO stages.

Who are the mutineers by the way, anyone knows for sure or it’s just speculation?

The problem is that they fired Guardialo who was way more sucessful than Ancelotti in Bayern's charge.
Why he was chosen ? to do a better job than Guardiola.
What happened ? he did worse, Bayern seems very vulnerable. I don't even remember the last time they looked so weak.
Do you still consider Bayern alongside Real and Barça - the strongest teams in the world ?

It's not about losing one game, Ancelotti had more than a year. I know that you see things under a European performance point of view, whereas I consider their domestic performance as well. Now that some players are against him as well, it was obvious that things could only be worse had he stayed.

About the identity of the mutineers - Franck Ribéry, Arjen Robben, Mats Hummels, Jérôme Boateng and Thomas Müller.
Müller did not play much last year, and the remaining 4 didn't play against PSG (only Robben got some minutes in the second half)

[Dragonite]

Ancelotti > Guardiola.

3 CL vs 2, for different clubs, AC Milan never recovered since Ancelotti left while Barça kept winning without Guardiola.

For Bayern, he indeed was eliminated one round earlier, but our German friends here said it was OK because they faced Real Madrid "too soon" plus they believe they were robbed.


The question is, who will be the (puppet) coach now?

Tuchel that never went beyond the quarter finals? That Hoffenheim kid with a 0-0-4 record? Does it even matter since apparently the "opinions" of simple players prevail over the ideas of their "supposed" leader?

[hoyes02]

Ancelotti too rely on aged 2R (robben+ribery), which was a thing that Guardiola and Sammer tried their best to avoid, yet now the Italian step back again

also, Muller, Costa, Conan etc, became rubbish under the management of Ancelotti. Obviously he is putting Bayern from 1st tier to 2nd tier.

Most importantly, Ancelotti is an old-fashioned manager, who won't use (or know how to use) young players, which violates what Bayern wants to achieve now (to avoid too focusing on 2R)

Obviously, there's no reason to delay his dismissal.

Those who think Ancelotti is good, I'm sure he/she didn't pay atttention/watch Bayern regularly

[bugylibicska]

Ancelotti made his name at Milan, riding to fame on Shevchenko`s back and filling his pockets. I don`t know about his character, but if he has guts and heart he should help Milan to be at least half as good as in those glory days. Then I`ll say he`s a respectable man and a good coach.

´Ribery thinks he is like Ronaldo and Messi!´
3 October 2017

Franck Ribery still sees himself as being on the level occupied by Cristiano Ronaldo and Lionel Messi, according to former Bayern Munich star Markus Babbel.

Babbel has slammed Ribery, who is out injured after suffering a serious knee ligament injury against Hertha Berlin on Sunday, in the wake of Carlo Ancelotti's sacking as Bayern head coach.

Ancelotti was removed from his position last week after a 3-0 Champions League defeat away to ex employers Paris Saint-Germain, in which he left big names like Ribery and Arjen Robben on the substitutes' bench.

Babbel was frustrated to see the blame for Bayern's slow start to 2017-18 placed on Ancelotti and feels Ribery, 34, represents a fading force.

"Franck Ribery has not scored a goal in the Champions League in the last two years," Babbel said to Sky 90.

"He still sees himself on the same level as Cristiano Ronaldo or Lionel Messi. But the truth is different. The truth is when it matters, he is not there.

"It is a bit annoying for me that the whole thing is now shifted to Carlo Ancelotti. Ribery has great merits for the club and has been a fantastic player. But this position he once held is one he cannot now fulfil in my eyes."

Ribery threw his shirt into the substitutes' bench when Ancelotti replaced him in the closing stages of last month's home Champions League win over Anderlecht.

"This is an absolute no-go for me," added Babbel, who won three Bundesliga titles with Bayern.

"The club would have had to react – but this is exactly the problem. If Franck Ribery is offended, he calls Uli Hoeness and then you have already lost as a coach.

"For me, some Bayern players live too much in the past. We were world champions, we won the Champions League many times.

"But it is about the actual state of the team and I would be very surprised if Carlo Ancelotti did not recognise this and set his team up accordingly [against PSG]."

[Malko]

With all this, Bayern shows the world that they are far from the image of a decent team they want to show to be. Well , it is not this way they’ll get top players and the gap between the top of Europe will increase even faster. They are an average Bundesliga team now, and that is really not very high in european hierarchy. They are lucky not to be in another group, or we wouldnot have Bayern in the ko round this season.( for example with real or tottrnham, or with monaco and porto)

[BurningStorm]

With all this, Bayern shows the world that they are far from the image of a decent team they want to show to be. Well , it is not this way they’ll get top players and the gap between the top of Europe will increase even faster. They are an average Bundesliga team now, and that is really not very high in european hierarchy. They are lucky not to be in another group, or we wouldnot have Bayern in the ko round this season.( for example with real or tottrnham, or with monaco and porto)

You said those things five or six years ago and a bit later they've won the CL.

@bugy: Babbel is right.

ps: Rummenigge with Infantino after the 3rd beer: "Please dude, ban PSG from the CL the next 3 seasons!" // "We will!" ... Or what did they say at the "Wiesn" in Munich? -> http://www.abendzeitung-muenchen.de/med ... al1024.jpg

(I now that Infantino isn't an UEFA guy anymore)

[Malko]

It would be the only way Bayern Munich would have to be european top again : Ban all the others.

[BurningStorm]

It would be the only way Bayern Munich would have to be european top again : Ban all the others.

First of all, PSG have to reach the semi final for the first time in the Qatar era to be a real big gun.

[Polak]

I am definitely in the 'firing Ancelotti was a mistake' camp with this.

Ancelotti is a very good coach. Not perfect, sure, but as mentioned, he has won 3 CL's with two clubs and reached 4 CL finals in total, only losing one on penalties.

Pretty much every club he has been at has had some success and yes, look at AC Milan now, a shadow of their former self. Despite spending all these millions this summer, they have shown that without the right man at the helm, they are still not good enough to challenge for the league and probably not a CL place either.

His first season at Bayern was good. He won the league and got to the CL 1/4 final, where his side were knocked out in two dubious games, where Bayern had a player unfairly sent off in both games.

In the 1st leg in Munich, it was 1-1, Javi Martinez was sent off and Real Madrid used that advantage to win 2-1. In the 2nd leg in Madrid, Bayern were winning 2-1 when Vidal was sent off and again, Madrid used this advantage to win the match in extra time.

The problem is that they fired Guardialo who was way more sucessful than Ancelotti in Bayern's charge.

I thought Guardiola agreed a contract with Manchester City in his final year? Are you sure he was fired? Or was it mutual consent that he would leave after his 3rd year?

Anyway, Guardiola to me is overrated. I'm not saying he is a bad manager, and he has had some success too, winning 2 CL's with Barcelona, but he's one of those few privileged managers who didn't have to work his way up and prove himself at lesser clubs first [like Zidane for example, who also has 2 CL wins as a manager]. His first job was at Barcelona, then he went to Bayern and now he is at Manchester City. All big clubs with lots of money to spend.

Lewandowski, Muller and Robben were mentioned among 5 players who spoke up against him.

The trouble is, different media say different things. I have heard all sorts of rumours on who 'the 5' are.

One media source will say Lewandowski, Muller, Robben, Ribery and Conan while another will say Muller, Ribery, Robben, Boateng and Hummels. Then you ready that Robben and Hummels have denied ever criticising him. It's all speculation as to who it was, but obviously some of the 'big names' in the team had an issue.

The main problem is that players have way too much to say. They are paid a lot of money and the manager, whatever they think of him, is there to be listened to. The players shouldn't be running the team. If they want to run a team then they can do so after they retire and become football managers. While a manager is in charge they should do their best under his instructions. if the results aren't there then the club will see [if it has sense] and get rid of him. I can't see an available manager right now who could do a better job than Ancelotti.

[Malko]

Burningstorm, i prefer reaching the semi-final in the future but in the past with no big hope to do it again.......

Polak, absolutely right concerning players who say too much....specially in bayern where they think to be stars without beeing......Lewandowski, Muller, Robben, Ribery and Conan are not Neymar, Messi, Cavani or Ronaldo......

[Polak]

@Malko

Yep, although I wouldn't say the bigger 'star' you are, the more you have a right to decide how a team plays or who its manager will be. It doesn't matter if you are the best player in the world, the coach is the boss and you do what he/she says, whether you agree or not. In any other job you would not be able to decide who your boss is.

By the way, I would not include Cavani in the same list as Ronaldo, Messi and Neymar, but that is just my personal opinion.

[Duketown]

Burningstorm, i prefer reaching the semi-final in the future but in the past with no big hope to do it again.......

What future?

20 out of 50 French titles, clubs are gone: club bankruptcy, taken title due to bribery, etc. Changes are 50/50 current top clubs in France are gone within 10 years. Bayern is here forever.
Considering the fact that last 2 titles are won by russian and qatari business men, changes are 100% those guys move on once better opportunities arise. Besides, once Monaco players will be forced to start paying income tax, that sect will be eliminated instantly and PSG will most likely be banned due to state interference. Soon, PSG will be that unsuccessful club again, like it has always been.

Polak, absolutely right concerning players who say too much....specially in bayern where they think to be stars without beeing......Lewandowski, Muller, Robben, Ribery and Conan are not Neymar, Messi, Cavani or Ronaldo......

There are only 2 stars, Messi and Ronaldo. Than you have Robben and following are some rising stars like Neymar and Mbappe. If they can stay fit and keep performing for another 5 years, they may start claiming something. If you think commercial stars compare to winning stars, than you have a strange definition of stars.