EL KO-Round Red Bull

[spoonman]

Red Bull is a big investor in sports generally and in F1 and football and ice hockey in special.

You forgot to mention extreme sports where people regularly get killed while doing insane stunts for Red Bull. The company even exploits people after they've died by releasing films about them. That's more than shady. It's cynical.

[Duketown]

nah..
Leipzig is just one of those East German cities with clubs that didn't do well since German Unifaction.

I'm not sure which club you are talking about, but the club that was taken over by RB (SSV Markranstädt) wasn't even based in Leipzig, and had never been in the top divisions of (East) Germany.

fixed that for you.

[Duketown]

Red Bull is a big investor in sports generally and in F1 and football and ice hockey in special.

You forgot to mention extreme sports where people regularly get killed while doing insane stunts for Red Bull. The company even exploits people after they've died by releasing films about them. That's more than shady. It's cynical.

haha, blaming Red Bull for deaths in X-games.... If you think that makes an impression compared to the worldwide impact the Qatari make, you are totally wrong.

Can you name some examples?

[Duketown]

Klaus Hofmann, president in FC Augsburg, says Red Bull Leipzig still breaks to 50+1 rule. Meaning club majority need to be owned by members and in Red Bull there are only 17 members and those are fiduciary to Red Bull (meaning Red Bull will always run this club).

The 50+1 law can not prevent what it was intended for. In a way, Red Bull also exploits stupidly implemented laws in their own advantage, just like anyone else.

[Duketown]

btw...there is a good idea i didn't think about . Disqualify Leipzig and integrating Monaco into EL. UEFA should think about this.

Monaco is the biggest disgrace in UEFA Football; they even don't pay taxes! They shouldn't be allowed to play UEFA football in the first place.

[Duketown]

I like Red Bull. They dont waste money like all Qatars or Russians. They invest in young players, academies, etc. They changed name to RB, so what? Is it better to play 4th division without chaning a name?

In Leipzig the name change is not a (big) problem, since the old club was only a small amateur club that was kept alive and plays at the level they did before again.

In Salzburg it is different. They changed the name and colors of a tradional top level club which was disbanded. They should just have kept the old name and colors and invest in it as sponsor. I would also not be happy if this would happen to my club. So I understand why a lot of fans left and start supporting the newly founded Austria Salzburg.

In Salzburg they split off FC Salzburg from Red Bull corporation this year so they are now just main sponsor contributing no more than 30 % of total revenue of FC Salzburg.

Those naming problems are only an issue since local government mostly is a huge investor in local clubs. In general: If a clubs name holds a city or regional name, it's pretty sure local government invested somehow in the club and thus have a say in the naming, logo, colors, host city, openings tune, etc.

But normally, any club entity can use the name, colors, host-city, music tunes they want. In case of Leipzig, Red Bull made a great club choice and in no time they have a 40.000 crowd and CL football.

And ownership isn't a problem either; most clubs around Europe already left their community owned model and found other corporate structure to manage their club. Even community owned clubs like Barca and others sell i.e. 25% of their ownership rights (but mostly without losing influence). And mostly stadium and club are even separate entities, with the government still owning (part of) the stadium.

So yes, Red Bull is a great owner. Hopefully they also invest in Eredivisie since we have some bad owners (ADO, RODA) to be replaced. And in Den Haag for example, city government still owns the stadium and 1/3 of the voting rights in the club. Their Chinese owner didn't understand all those complicated provisions when he "bought" that club, lol. Now, a few years laters, the working relation between city government and Chinese owner is still minimal and it hardly improved the club, in budget or fans.

[Malko]

Duketown, you seem to have focused on "french" clubs. Why should Monaco pay axes if the country does't ask for....do YOU pay more taxes that you are asked?
BTW, you seem to suffer that Dutsch Football is gone from the Top Football in Europe, as for the national team, as for the clubs..... and is now even overruled by the Belgians.....i was also a big supporter of Cruyff, was sad when they lost the final, and was partying when Marco van basten shot this great goal in germany.......but sth was done wrong in Holland they fell so deep......the third big tournament in a row...where they are absent.......maybe it should be an arab country doing investments in dutsch football....but this thread becomes absolutely off topic. It is about Leipzig and Salzburg, where my sympathies go to salzburg of course.

[spoonman]

Red Bull is a big investor in sports generally and in F1 and football and ice hockey in special.

You forgot to mention extreme sports where people regularly get killed while doing insane stunts for Red Bull. The company even exploits people after they've died by releasing films about them. That's more than shady. It's cynical.

haha, blaming Red Bull for deaths in X-games.... If you think that makes an impression compared to the worldwide impact the Qatari make, you are totally wrong.

Can you name some examples?

The most notorious one might be Shane McConkey. Some examples are listed here:
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Bull# ... f.C3.A4lle

And you don't need to enlighten me about Qatar. I've always been warning about Qatar's bad influence on world sports. But this thread is about Red Bull.

[spoonman]

It is about Leipzig and Salzburg, where my sympathies go to salzburg of course.

Not too long ago, you were glad about RB Leipzig's rise in Germany. But of course that was before they ousted Monaco.

[Duketown]

You forgot to mention extreme sports where people regularly get killed while doing insane stunts for Red Bull. The company even exploits people after they've died by releasing films about them. That's more than shady. It's cynical.

haha, blaming Red Bull for deaths in X-games.... If you think that makes an impression compared to the worldwide impact the Qatari make, you are totally wrong.

Can you name some examples?

The most notorious one might be Shane McConkey. Some examples are listed here:
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Bull# ... f.C3.A4lle

And you don't need to enlighten me about Qatar. I've always been warning about Qatar's bad influence on world sports. But this thread is about Red Bull.

ok. And I love X-games as much as I do Olympics. I like that Red Bull made those sports big. But blaming them for xtreme sports to be extreme is like blaming MTV for Jackass behaviour. It's simple for me: Athletes love to their shit and get paid for it. I'm happy stuff like this is broadcasted; others might be less happier.

And the thread Red Bull showed is a political problem; football is only showing what's possible with current EU regulation. Germany installed the 50+1 rule to fight this phenomena (a losing battle against ownership structure within foundation-like structures, all with global anonymity at will) but in reality you can't stop contract law, specifically not in UEFA zone, across 3 continents and 55 member states.

Like I said, it's a matter of time until a oligarch Red Bull case arise. One who will fight the system and show behaviour (like running a business, injected with monarchy influence with unlimited petro-dollars), like PSG is showing right now. Like it's a matter of time until human-traffickers like Doyen and Gestifute or betting companies will buy a club, most likely Porto.

Next UEFA-update is gonna be interesting again.

[Malko]

spoonman, of course, in germany I prefer Salzburg wins a game, more than Bayern, Dortmund or Schalke....should i add that i hope a salzburg defeat on last EL matchday of the GS?

[matt]

I just learned that either we are living in the 1938 or a new Anschluss happened. Scary times.

[FR-Rinaldo]

so what will happen?

I know why you are asking this

Nothing will happen, Monaco european season is over.

[Club-Mate]

spoonman, of course, in germany I prefer Salzburg wins a game, more than Bayern, Dortmund or Schalke....should i add that i hope a salzburg defeat on last EL matchday of the GS?

a bit history for Mr. malko: 1809 Duchy Salzburg was part of the Napoleonic France (is that the reason for your affection to Salzburg?) After the reorganization of 1810 it became part of Kingdom Bavaria. 1816 according to Paris treaty Salzburg was annexed back to Austria and is herewith historically after Burgenland the second youngest region in Austria.

spoonman - my empathy for Adrenalin junkies is limited they are not forced to do it. It does not show of much integrity and knowledge from your side if you connect "shaby" with Red Bull without pointing out the achievements of this company and his owner.
https://www.sn.at/salzburg/wirtschaft/s ... te-7333738

[spoonman]

spoonman - my empathy for Adrenalin junkies is limited they are not forced to do it.

"They're not forced to do it" - some people will always say that. They'd even say it if some TV channel produced "The Running Man" as a reality show.

My empathy for adrenalin junkies is limited as well. But the problem is that Red Bull encourages and pays them to do it. And I have a lot of empathy for the families of people who threw away their lives for an adrenalin rush, a little money and 15 minutes of fame.

It does not show of much integrity and knowledge from your side if you connect "shaby" with Red Bull without pointing out the achievements of this company and his owner.
https://www.sn.at/salzburg/wirtschaft/s ... te-7333738

I didn't say shaby or shady, I said cynical.

So Red Bull has created a couple of thousand jobs in the Salzburg region, yeah. But that's hardly an excuse for undermining the integrity of European football. I'm now hoping for a Leipzig v Salzburg "clash" in the Europa League, so that everyone across Europe can see how absurd Red Bull's construct of franchises is.