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Author: bert.kassies
Date: 14-05-2003, 13:11
| Florian Breinl wrote to me: "And what do you think about this article:
uefa.com article: Vetra celebrate cup cheer.
This one and some others published by uefa.com (unfortunately I forgot exactly where) also seem to encourage the theory that if the Cup Winner qualifies for the UEFA-Cup, the Finalist automatically gets the Cup Winners berth, which would be contrary to the rules applying over the last years and to your (and my) opinion !?!"
And he is right. The spot for the losing national cup finalist is, according to the current regulations, only used when the cup winner qualifies for the Champions League. Or, has something changed? |
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Author: Eurycantha
Date: 15-05-2003, 00:12
| Vetra celebrate cup cheerWednesday, 23 April 2003
FK Vetra will participate in the UEFA Cup for the first time in their history next season after winning through to the final of the Lithuanian Cup last night. Extra time needed Vetra lost 2-1 to FK Zalgiris Vilnius after extra time but advanced on the away goals rule following a 1-0 victory in the first leg. Vetra were eight minutes away from reaching the final in regulation time, but Belarussian Andrei Shilo scored from the spot to hand Zalgiris the lead and draw the sides level on aggregate. No European footballPlay went into extra time, which was seven minutes old when Vytautas Karvelis converted a penalty for Vetra. A frantic last ten minutes ensued after Zalgiris restored their advantage through Andzey Sivinsky but Vetra stood firm to secure a place in the UEFA Cup and leave Zalgiris without European football for the first time since 1991. May final Vetra will meet FK Atlantas in the 17 May final, to be played in the small town of Telsiai, after their semi-final opponents, FK Inkaras, declared bankruptcy ahead of the 2003 league campaign, which is four games old. Atlantas have already qualified for the 2003/04 UEFA Cup after finishing as league runners-up last season.
Bert, this is the article you mentioned; in my opinion
Ekranes, as third in the Lithuanian 2002 League, would
be in the UC, when Atlantas would win the final.
It is a surprise for me to learn that Vetra would play
in the UC. |
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Author: Eurycantha
Date: 15-05-2003, 07:16
| Bert, further on the "Ventra"-story, but now a question
concerning Ukraine:
The cup-final will be played between Dynamo Kyiv and
Shakhtar Donetsk; for the two UC-positions, in my
opinion, it will be no. 3 and no. 4 (at this moment
Metalurh and Arsenal). Will the no. 3 gets a place in
R1 (instead of the cup-winner? and no. 4 a place in
QR?
concerning Bosnia-Herzegovina
The cup-final will be played between Leotar and Zeljez-
nicar; Leotar will probably play CL; Zeljeznicar (sure
of UC) can win/can lose, without consequenses? will
play UC as cupwinner or loser, what means that the
no. 3 (at this moment Siroki) will play UC? |
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Author: bert.kassies
Date: 15-05-2003, 08:58
| At the main page of my website you may find: "If both cup finalists qualify for the Champions League, then an additional team based on league position will be qualified. However, the losing cup finalist does not get the UEFA Cup cup-winner spot, but is treated as a league entrant."
Ukraina: Yes, if both Dynamo Kiev and Shakhtar Donetsk qualify for CL, than no. 3 and 4 qualify for UC, and no. 3 directly enters R1.
Bosnia-Herzegovina: In fact for Bosnia there is no difference between UC spots. But the general rule is stated above, and in this case the losing cup finalist is still the first entrant in the UC. In my notation at the Qualification 2003/2004 page I use the LC spot only when that team did not otherwise qualify for UC. |
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Author: putzeijs
Date: 16-05-2003, 09:47
| In a Belgian newspaper they reffered to a UEFA source to confirm the interpretation of Bert.
It is still possible that STVV (favourite to win the cup) end the competition on a tirth place(and UEFA cup qualifiers ticket). In that case it would be nr 4 in competition and not the losing cup finalist to enter the UEFA cup.
Buth I admid that my faith in Belgian newspapers is not that big. |
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Author: flob
Date: 16-05-2003, 11:50
| I am quite sure, that the author of that article is wrong, nothing has changed and Bert's allocation is correct. I sent an email to uefa.com on wednesday with this question, didn't get an answer so far, but I'll let you know if I do ... |
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Author: anita
Date: 16-05-2003, 13:17
| Bert rules. Another interesting fact is that the countries ranked between 9 and 18, where the cup-winner enters 1st round in the UEFA-cup, and the runner-up(s) in the league enters qualification round, it's another obscure rule from UEFA that if the winner of the national cup is already qualified for the CL, the losing cup finalist will change places with the closest runner-up, i.e. the losing cup finalist will enter qualification round and the runner up will start in the 1st round. |
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Author: flob
Date: 26-05-2003, 19:01
| now we know ...
although I didn' get an answer to from uefa.com and found 3 or 4 more articles in the 'Football Europe' section there celebrating wrong UEFA-Cup participiants, this provisional list of participating teams in the UEFA-Cup published today shows that Bert is right! |
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Author: bert.kassies
Date: 27-05-2003, 08:21
| Good, but considering the quality I don't know if we can use that as proof. Of coarse, I used the list to check my own provisional qualification list.
I found the following errors:
CZE UC2=Liberec or Zizkov
IRL UC2=Shelbourne
LUX UC2=F91 Dudelange
NIR UC2=Portadown
And the folowing omissions:
BLS CW=Dinamo Minsk
CRO UC2-3=Varteks Varazdin
GEO CW=Dinamo Tbilisi (unless champions)
HUN UC2/LC=DVSC Debrecen
SUI UC2-3=Xamax Neuchâtel
SUI UC2-3=Young Boys
Or do you think my list is wrong? |
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Author: flob
Date: 27-05-2003, 11:07
| Bert, I'm absolutely convinced that your list is correct and the most complete list possible :-)
In fact, I didn't check the UEFA list for all errors and omissions (I'm getting used to this poor quality), only for the teams in question regarding this topic (losing cup finalists with cup winners qualified for UEFA cup) and there I was happy to see that they have corrected their errors (Vetra Rudiskes, Fram Reykajvik, AEL Limassol, FC Utrecht).
I don't consider it as a proof, but it indicates that there is no regulation change in this matter. |
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