2022/23 Champions League Round of 16

Champions League, Europa League, Conference League
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rpo.castro
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Post by rpo.castro »

amirbachar wrote: Tue Jan 03, 2023 02:59
matt wrote: Mon Jan 02, 2023 23:20
dnina10 wrote: Mon Jan 02, 2023 22:13 To the first question, I would say that they have become one of those who focuses a bit too much on playing in Europe. Last season was very much the same way. Club had put a lot of focus on the CL and domestic performances struggled. I wouldn't be surprised if they beat Benfica and then struggle to make Playoffs 1
The halving of points after the regular season is to blame: it really does not incentive the top teams to fully focus on the league in the first half of the season. A team like Club Brugge, as long as it is in the top 4, might get complacent after a while, especially after they weren't first for almost the whole 2021-2022 season and still won the league.
In most major sports the points are truncated completely and there is a playoff. The interest of the crowd is the most important for small leagues and also brings the success
It allows more matches between top teams and by halving the points you make sure that those matches count and aren't dead rubbers.
Still recovering 4 points to 1 club or 6 points to 1 club with 2 more in the middle isn't the same so I don't think clubs won't focus.
With a knockout play off that would be more true (not so important being 1st, 2nd or 3rd
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Dragonite
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Post by Dragonite »

dnina10 wrote: Mon Jan 02, 2023 22:13
Dragonite wrote: Mon Jan 02, 2023 20:38 Thank you @dnina10 ! :wink:


Do you think that Club Brugge's playing style is more suitable for CL matches against strong opposition, and then domestically it's not good enough to win repeatedly against weaker teams?

And if they change their playing style to "smash minnows" mode, they would probably have more 10 points domestically but in return they would have finished bottom of their CL group without a single win?

Will Scott Parker bring a new playing style with him, and perhaps new players too in the January transfer window?


And finally, which Belgian team would you like to see in the 2023/2024 CL?
Starting with the bolded question, I think we all know which Belgian team I would like to see in the CL next season :rollfloor: :rollfloor:

From a more realistic standpoint, I would love to see Genk return. Then again, whether they will actually a) get to the CL GS and b) win some games is another matter. Outside of them, Gent would be great to see as well.

Will Scott Parker bring a new playing style? I don't know. From when I used to watch his Fulham side in the Prem, they were a decent team. How much he will change time will tell. There are questions as to whether abandoned captian Ruud Vormer will be recalled and playing regular minutes in the team, but I would not expect that to happen.

For the January transfer window, I did hear that they want to get a couple of players. It is worth noting that Club had the chance to get Steven Gerrard, but the salary was an issue. I'm thinking if they had gotten him, there would be very few, if any players coming in January. Expect some players to come in, and some to leave.

To the first question, I would say that they have become one of those who focuses a bit too much on playing in Europe. Last season was very much the same way. Club had put a lot of focus on the CL and domestic performances struggled. I wouldn't be surprised if they beat Benfica and then struggle to make Playoffs 1
I would hate to see Genk in the CL. 3 participations, 18 matches played, 0 wins. :fingal:

Even in the EL last season somehow they managed to finish bottom of their group. :sigh:

The only thing at Genk worthy of my respect is their youth team, that last season had a good UYL campaign and this season is also alive.


If Club Brugge misses the 2023/2024 CL, I hope that it will be Saint-Gilloise replacing them.


And no, it's not evident that you would like to see Anderlecht in the CL. It's better to see them in the Conference League winning matches against Young Boys, Silkeborg and hopefully Ludogorets too than seeing them in the CL losing against everyone, isn't it?
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dnina10
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Post by dnina10 »

Dragonite wrote: Tue Jan 03, 2023 12:23
dnina10 wrote: Mon Jan 02, 2023 22:13
Dragonite wrote: Mon Jan 02, 2023 20:38 Thank you @dnina10 ! :wink:


Do you think that Club Brugge's playing style is more suitable for CL matches against strong opposition, and then domestically it's not good enough to win repeatedly against weaker teams?

And if they change their playing style to "smash minnows" mode, they would probably have more 10 points domestically but in return they would have finished bottom of their CL group without a single win?

Will Scott Parker bring a new playing style with him, and perhaps new players too in the January transfer window?


And finally, which Belgian team would you like to see in the 2023/2024 CL?
Starting with the bolded question, I think we all know which Belgian team I would like to see in the CL next season :rollfloor: :rollfloor:

From a more realistic standpoint, I would love to see Genk return. Then again, whether they will actually a) get to the CL GS and b) win some games is another matter. Outside of them, Gent would be great to see as well.

Will Scott Parker bring a new playing style? I don't know. From when I used to watch his Fulham side in the Prem, they were a decent team. How much he will change time will tell. There are questions as to whether abandoned captian Ruud Vormer will be recalled and playing regular minutes in the team, but I would not expect that to happen.

For the January transfer window, I did hear that they want to get a couple of players. It is worth noting that Club had the chance to get Steven Gerrard, but the salary was an issue. I'm thinking if they had gotten him, there would be very few, if any players coming in January. Expect some players to come in, and some to leave.

To the first question, I would say that they have become one of those who focuses a bit too much on playing in Europe. Last season was very much the same way. Club had put a lot of focus on the CL and domestic performances struggled. I wouldn't be surprised if they beat Benfica and then struggle to make Playoffs 1
I would hate to see Genk in the CL. 3 participations, 18 matches played, 0 wins. :fingal:

Even in the EL last season somehow they managed to finish bottom of their group. :sigh:

The only thing at Genk worthy of my respect is their youth team, that last season had a good UYL campaign and this season is also alive.


If Club Brugge misses the 2023/2024 CL, I hope that it will be Saint-Gilloise replacing them.


And no, it's not evident that you would like to see Anderlecht in the CL. It's better to see them in the Conference League winning matches against Young Boys, Silkeborg and hopefully Ludogorets too than seeing them in the CL losing against everyone, isn't it?
I always want to see my teams playing in the best competition possible. I know that is a difficult concept for most to understand, but that is the reality. While I love the Europa Conference League and the diversity it brings, I always have the attitude of playing at the highest level possible, regardless of the (likely) results that will come in said tournament.

Regarding Genk, I know they have never won a game in the CL proper, but also remember that Club Brugge is one of our rivals. Same goes with Union. I don't like Antwerp either and think they'll just waste the spot altogether. So, I would love to see Genk return to the big time. Plus, all bad things come to an end at some point
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Post by naaba »

dnina10 wrote: Tue Jan 03, 2023 21:18
Dragonite wrote: Tue Jan 03, 2023 12:23
dnina10 wrote: Mon Jan 02, 2023 22:13

Starting with the bolded question, I think we all know which Belgian team I would like to see in the CL next season :rollfloor: :rollfloor:

From a more realistic standpoint, I would love to see Genk return. Then again, whether they will actually a) get to the CL GS and b) win some games is another matter. Outside of them, Gent would be great to see as well.

Will Scott Parker bring a new playing style? I don't know. From when I used to watch his Fulham side in the Prem, they were a decent team. How much he will change time will tell. There are questions as to whether abandoned captian Ruud Vormer will be recalled and playing regular minutes in the team, but I would not expect that to happen.

For the January transfer window, I did hear that they want to get a couple of players. It is worth noting that Club had the chance to get Steven Gerrard, but the salary was an issue. I'm thinking if they had gotten him, there would be very few, if any players coming in January. Expect some players to come in, and some to leave.

To the first question, I would say that they have become one of those who focuses a bit too much on playing in Europe. Last season was very much the same way. Club had put a lot of focus on the CL and domestic performances struggled. I wouldn't be surprised if they beat Benfica and then struggle to make Playoffs 1
I would hate to see Genk in the CL. 3 participations, 18 matches played, 0 wins. :fingal:

Even in the EL last season somehow they managed to finish bottom of their group. :sigh:

The only thing at Genk worthy of my respect is their youth team, that last season had a good UYL campaign and this season is also alive.


If Club Brugge misses the 2023/2024 CL, I hope that it will be Saint-Gilloise replacing them.


And no, it's not evident that you would like to see Anderlecht in the CL. It's better to see them in the Conference League winning matches against Young Boys, Silkeborg and hopefully Ludogorets too than seeing them in the CL losing against everyone, isn't it?
I always want to see my teams playing in the best competition possible. I know that is a difficult concept for most to understand, but that is the reality. While I love the Europa Conference League and the diversity it brings, I always have the attitude of playing at the highest level possible, regardless of the (likely) results that will come in said tournament.

Regarding Genk, I know they have never won a game in the CL proper, but also remember that Club Brugge is one of our rivals. Same goes with Union. I don't like Antwerp either and think they'll just waste the spot altogether. So, I would love to see Genk return to the big time. Plus, all bad things come to an end at some point
Regarding Genk poor CL-record, they somehow managed to draw at home against the likes of Real Madrid, AEK Athens, Chelsea, Valencia, Leverkusen and Napoli. They only managed to draw away at AEK Athens and AS Roma. It's a weird club that needs PSO to eliminate Buducnost Podgorica in July before going all the way to the quarter finals of Europa League. 3 times they won an EL-Group and next round 3 times they drew away on first game, before losing the return at home (Stuttgart, Anzhi Makhachkala, Slavia Praha). They only made it through against Astra Giurgiu. 4 first places in Europa League is not that bad, although in the new format last season they finished bottom. I think Genk is a team that can play second or third place in Europa League, no more than that.

Same goes for the current Anderlecht. They barely survived Conference League so they should stick to this competition for now.

Antwerp is ambitious but "unlucky". Last season they had a strong EL-Group and lost so many points in the last minutes of games against Frankfurt and Olympiakos. They lost 4 points this way, and would have been top of the group with those. This season they were robbed a seeded status by UEFA new seeding rules, and the pressure was too much against the Turkish club that eventually made good in GS with Fiorentina. If they were to play CL qualifiers the president might get crazy and make some big transfers. Money doesn't build a good team but it sure helps. That's the main asset of Antwerp.

The key for Belgium is that most seasons smaller clubs (like Charleroi or Oostende) have a blocked path for Europe, which is good. Netherlands send twice as much "smaller clubs" in Europe than Belgium (Groningen, Go Ahead Eagles, Heracles Almelo, PEC Zwolle, Willem II Tilburg). Of course Belgian clubs are far from ever performing as Ajax in some seasons, but Belgium has 6 competitive clubs that are doing "OK" when in Europe (Brugge, Genk, Gent, Standard Liège, Antwerp, Anderlecht). We have yet to see if Union is a one-season wonder or not. On the other hand Netherlands only has 4 competitive clubs (Ajax, PSV, Feyenoord, AZ).

As long as Belgium sends in Europe the "OK" clubs, it doesn't really matter who plays which competition.
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Post by Dragonite »

dnina10 wrote: Tue Jan 03, 2023 21:18 I always want to see my teams playing in the best competition possible. I know that is a difficult concept for most to understand, but that is the reality. While I love the Europa Conference League and the diversity it brings, I always have the attitude of playing at the highest level possible, regardless of the (likely) results that will come in said tournament.

Regarding Genk, I know they have never won a game in the CL proper, but also remember that Club Brugge is one of our rivals. Same goes with Union. I don't like Antwerp either and think they'll just waste the spot altogether. So, I would love to see Genk return to the big time. Plus, all bad things come to an end at some point
Rangers was in the "best competition possible" - lost every match, worst team in the 2022/2023 CL, and worst ever Rangers in CL history.

It would have been much better for their reputation and self-esteem to have played the EL group stage, like Saint-Gilloise and PSV did. There they won 4 matches each, and they can still win more in the KO rounds.

Last season being eliminated by Malmo in CLQR3 was the best thing that could have happened to Rangers. They had a long EL campaign to be proud of, instead of a pityful CL like this season.
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Post by dnina10 »

Dragonite wrote: Sat Jan 07, 2023 16:06
dnina10 wrote: Tue Jan 03, 2023 21:18 I always want to see my teams playing in the best competition possible. I know that is a difficult concept for most to understand, but that is the reality. While I love the Europa Conference League and the diversity it brings, I always have the attitude of playing at the highest level possible, regardless of the (likely) results that will come in said tournament.

Regarding Genk, I know they have never won a game in the CL proper, but also remember that Club Brugge is one of our rivals. Same goes with Union. I don't like Antwerp either and think they'll just waste the spot altogether. So, I would love to see Genk return to the big time. Plus, all bad things come to an end at some point
Rangers was in the "best competition possible" - lost every match, worst team in the 2022/2023 CL, and worst ever Rangers in CL history.

It would have been much better for their reputation and self-esteem to have played the EL group stage, like Saint-Gilloise and PSV did. There they won 4 matches each, and they can still win more in the KO rounds.

Last season being eliminated by Malmo in CLQR3 was the best thing that could have happened to Rangers. They had a long EL campaign to be proud of, instead of a pityful CL like this season.
Apologies for just getting back to you now.

Yet, the biggest irony of all this is that I'm sure many clubs across Europe would've taken Rangers' place at the snap of a finger. So, is it bad that Rangers got embarrassed in the CL? Sure. But, I'm sure they'll love the money they got for it. Still more than what they'd get in EL/ECL
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Post by Dragonite »

@dnina10 , no need for apologies, you can reply whenever you want, or don't reply at all. :wink:

UEFA's revenue distribution system is criminal!

It's unacceptable that in 2020/2021 Rennes got 32.399M€ for getting a 0-1-5 in the CL, while in the EL quarterfinalist Dinamo Zagreb only got 12.713M€ despite getting a 7-2-3.

It's this money that UEFA diverts from Dinamo Zagreb's pockets to Rennes' pockets that then forces a transfer like Majer from Dinamo Zagreb to Rennes in the following season.

If Rennes' prize was 7.457M€, and Dinamo Zagreb's prize was 21.110M€, then Dinamo Zagreb wouldn't have to sell Majer anymore, and Rennes wouldn't be able to afford him.



The way I see it, getting awful CL results AND stealing someone else's money only aggravates the situation, it doesn't mitigate it. :sigh:
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Post by dnina10 »

Dragonite wrote: Wed Jan 11, 2023 10:57 @dnina10 , no need for apologies, you can reply whenever you want, or don't reply at all. :wink:

UEFA's revenue distribution system is criminal!

It's unacceptable that in 2020/2021 Rennes got 32.399M€ for getting a 0-1-5 in the CL, while in the EL quarterfinalist Dinamo Zagreb only got 12.713M€ despite getting a 7-2-3.

It's this money that UEFA diverts from Dinamo Zagreb's pockets to Rennes' pockets that then forces a transfer like Majer from Dinamo Zagreb to Rennes in the following season.

If Rennes' prize was 7.457M€, and Dinamo Zagreb's prize was 21.110M€, then Dinamo Zagreb wouldn't have to sell Majer anymore, and Rennes wouldn't be able to afford him.



The way I see it, getting awful CL results AND stealing someone else's money only aggravates the situation, it doesn't mitigate it. :sigh:
I fully agree with you. Getting to the QF of the Europa League or Europa Conference League should result in more money than finishing last in a Champions League group, regardless of where you're from. There are lots of problems with the system that need changing. Sadly, there's only so much we can do.

The way I see it is this: you should always strive to play in the best competition possible. If you win your country's second division, you get promoted. That can only be seen as a good thing even if you lose 75% of your games in the top flight and get relegated again. Teams strive to play in the best competition possible, both domestically and continentally. I can say with a reasonable degree of certainty that many teams across Europe would take Rangers' spot in an instant, especially of they're from a smaller country. That truly puts their football on the map. So, that the prespective I try to have
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Post by naaba »

Dragonite wrote: Wed Jan 11, 2023 10:57 @dnina10 , no need for apologies, you can reply whenever you want, or don't reply at all. :wink:

UEFA's revenue distribution system is criminal!

It's unacceptable that in 2020/2021 Rennes got 32.399M€ for getting a 0-1-5 in the CL, while in the EL quarterfinalist Dinamo Zagreb only got 12.713M€ despite getting a 7-2-3.

It's this money that UEFA diverts from Dinamo Zagreb's pockets to Rennes' pockets that then forces a transfer like Majer from Dinamo Zagreb to Rennes in the following season.

If Rennes' prize was 7.457M€, and Dinamo Zagreb's prize was 21.110M€, then Dinamo Zagreb wouldn't have to sell Majer anymore, and Rennes wouldn't be able to afford him.



The way I see it, getting awful CL results AND stealing someone else's money only aggravates the situation, it doesn't mitigate it. :sigh:
The answer is simple : money (TV rights) and level of opponents. There are more people watching a random CL-GS match than an EL-QF match. In his 6 matchs only European campaign, Rennes faced Chelsea and Sevilla. The third one was Krasnodar, which oddly enough, played Dinamo Zagreb after being sent to EL. In the meantime Dinamo Zagreb played 12 matches but they only played 2 clubs that could match Chelsea/Sevilla level : Tottenham and Villarreal.

Rennes faced teams ranked 8th (Sevilla), 15th (Chelsea) and 45th (Krasnodar). Dinamo Zagreb faced teams ranked 90th (Feyenoord), 33th (CSKA Moscow), 173th (Wolfsberger AC), 45th (Krasnodar), 12th (Tottenham), and 25th (Villareal).

That means the average level of Rennes' opponent would be ranked 23rd, while for Dinamo Zagreb it's 63rd.
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Post by amenina »

Champions League squad changes

https://www.uefa.com/uefachampionsleagu ... d-changes/

Each UEFA Champions League team left in the competition was permitted to register three new eligible A list players by midnight CET on Thursday 2 February.

Bayern

In: Daley Blind, João Cancelo, Yann Sommer
Out: Benjamin Ballis, Justin Janitzek, Gabriel Marušić, Jakob Thomas Mayer, Marcel Sabitzer

Benfica

In: Pedro Santos*, Gonçalo Guedes, João Neves*, Diego Moreira*, Zan Jevsenak*, Samuel Soares, Henrique Pereira*, Cher N'Dour*, Gerson Sousa*, Andreas Schjelderup, Luis Semedo*, Casper Tengstedt
Out: Henrique Araújo, Gil Dias, John Brooks, Diogo Gonçalves, Enzo Fernández, Paulo Bernardo, Helton Leite, Martim Neto, Rodrigo Pinho, João Victor

Chelsea

In: João Félix, Enzo Fernández, Mykhailo Mudryk
Out: Pierre-Emerick Aubameyang, Jorginho

Club Brugge

In: Josef Bursik, Jack Hendry, Mats Rits
Out: Éder Balanta, Cyle Larin, Eduard Sobol

Dortmund

In: Jamie Bynoe-Gittens*, Mahmoud Dahoud, Sébastien Haller, Julian Ryerson
Out: Thorgan Hazard, Abdoulaye Kamara

Frankfurt

In: Philipp Max, Almamy Touré, Aurélio Buta
Out: Jens Grahl, Jérôme Onguéné, Luca Pellegrini

Inter

In: none
Out: Dennis Curatolo, Aleksandar Stankovic

Leipzig

In: Daniel Ihendu*, Ørjan Nyland, Winners Osawe*
Out: Péter Gulácsi, Hugo Novoa

Liverpool

In: Stefan Bajcetic*, Cody Gakpo, Kaide Gordon*, Naby Keïta, Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain, Rhys Williams*
Out: Luke Chambers, Arthur, Calvin Ramsey

Man City

In: Máximo Perrone
Out: João Cancelo

Milan

In: Andrea Bartoccioni*, Federico Mangiameli*, Fotios Pseftis*, Malick Thiaw
Out: Sergiño Dest, Andreas Jungdal

Napoli

In: Bartosz Bereszyński, Pierluigi Gollini
Out: Salvatore Sirigu, Alessandro Zanoli, Alessio Zerbin

Paris

In: Ilyes Housni*, Timothee Pembele
Out: Ayman Kari, Keylor Navas, Pablo Sarabia

Porto

In: none
Out: none

Real Madrid

In: Marvel*, Rafel Obrador*, Nicolás Paz*
Out: none

Tottenham

In: Arnaut Danjuma, Pedro Porro, Alfie Whiteman
Out: Matt Doherty, Bryan Gil, Djed Spence

* List B
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Post by seso »

It feels like months-and-months have passed since the last match! :beer:
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Post by matt »

Milan - Tottenham: it's a shame Milan are in such a dire state, because Tottenham are not impressing me. Milan must avoid a defeat on Tuesday and hopefully they will get better in 3 weeks.

PSG - Bayern: this game arrive not at the right time for PSG. Advantage Bayern.

Borussia Dortmund - Chelsea: hopefully Borussia can win, because Chelsea in April might become dangerous.

Club Brugge - Benfica: Benfica earned themselves a great chance to advance. They must not waste this opportunity.

Eintracht - Napoli: great games, i'm looking forward to them.

Liverpool - Real Madrid: will Champions League wake up this sleepy Liverpool?

Inter - Porto: it's not an european cup if Porto doesn't play against an Italian team. They have a very good record in the last few years against "our" teams. Roma, Lazio, Juventus and Milan all failed!

Leipzig - Manchester City: i don't think Leipzig is strong or flexible enough to cause an upset like Tottenham is used to do.
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Post by bugylibicska »

After a long wait finally there. PSG - Bayern and Dortmund - Chelsea for me.
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Post by bugylibicska »

Bayern are dominating, PSG didn't show up so far.
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Post by bugylibicska »

Donnarumma helps Bayern to take the lead, 0:1 by Coman.
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