Euro 2024 knockout phase

[Shing]

Ice hockey World Championship. Teams have an order following the world rankings, and they (theoretically) use the "snake" system. Group A is #1-4-5-8-9-12-13-16 ranked teams and Group B is #2-3-6-7-10-11-14-15 ranked teams.

Also, it was already discussed, but I totally prefer the "Swiss system" (if that's the name) to create either one group of 24 teams, two groups of 12 teams or four groups of 6 teams. Then not all teams play against all teams within a group, but only 3 group stage games are played by each team, the opponents are selected in theoretically more or less equal strength by using seeding. The last matches within a group are played at the same time.

4 groups of 6 teams Swiss sounds good. How group draw will look like? 3 pots of 8 teams, and each group draw 2 teams from each pot?

The draw can be 6 pots of 4 teams each (based on ranking or qualification results)

May be challenging to have balanced fixtures with 6 pots. With 3 pots, each team will play one match from each pot

[offside]

@offside I think people talk little of Switzerland because they still have that stigma of "reliable but unremarkable"; I spoke a while ago about them being in a tier of their own among the European NT's. Yes, last Euro with France and this one with Italy they rose above that image, but I think the ceiling of quarterfinals is what everyone expects they'll meet again.

I pretty much agree. Talking about their unexpected victories, let's not forget also the one in the group stage over Spain in the 2010 World Cup.

@Hoopy
I think too that the goal celebrations should not carry political messages of any kind.

[Lorric]

One thing they could do, in these groups where both the winner and the runner up play a runner up in the last 16, is allow the group winner to select their opponent.

[mspm89]

I pretty much agree. Talking about their unexpected victories, let's not forget also the one in the group stage over Spain in the 2010 World Cup.

Nah, that one was just as inconsequential as that of Saudi Arabia over Argentina. In that tournament, they actually went below expectations. I think that was one of two GS exits in the last 20 years for them, or something.

[diyx]

The bracket was made long ago.


A similar bracket was used for Euro 2016/2020 and WC 1986/1990/1994.

Euro 2020 was same, Euro 2016 different in terms of which winners play 3rds.

The change they made at Euro 2020 (and continued this year) was that they moved to an extra day of gap as a minimum between games (4 days between games not 3), eg Semis were played on Tuesday and Wednesday, rather than Wednesday and Thursday and this had knocks on to earlier in the tournament. As a result some groups (E&F) couldn't play on the first day of knockout games, which if you look at 2016, anyone could have played on that first day. This means they reorganised how third placed teams were allocated to group winners

They can achieve this differently though.

The best way to organize the knockout bracket I came up with would be like this:

1A - 3CDE
1B - 3CDF

1C - 2D
2E - 2F

-----------

1D - 2C
2A - 2B

1E - 3ACD
1F - 3BCD

Code: Select all

Group		A	B	C	D	E	F
1st		3rd	3rd	2nd	2nd	3rd	3rd
2nd		2nd	2nd	1st  1st	2nd 2nd

The teams with the tougher opponents in R16, C and D, will face an easier opponent in the quarterfinals, if all favorites advance. 1st and 2nd place from the same group are kept apart until the final, and 3rd placed teams can only meet another team from their group in the semifinals.

[Sagy]

4 groups of 6 teams Swiss sounds good. How group draw will look like? 3 pots of 8 teams, and each group draw 2 teams from each pot?

The draw can be 6 pots of 4 teams each (based on ranking or qualification results)

May be challenging to have balanced fixtures with 6 pots. With 3 pots, each team will play one match from each pot

You can have the teams from pots 1,4,5 play the teams from 2,3,6.

[ThreeLions]

Euro 2020 was same, Euro 2016 different in terms of which winners play 3rds.

The change they made at Euro 2020 (and continued this year) was that they moved to an extra day of gap as a minimum between games (4 days between games not 3), eg Semis were played on Tuesday and Wednesday, rather than Wednesday and Thursday and this had knocks on to earlier in the tournament. As a result some groups (E&F) couldn't play on the first day of knockout games, which if you look at 2016, anyone could have played on that first day. This means they reorganised how third placed teams were allocated to group winners

They can achieve this differently though.

The best way to organize the knockout bracket I came up with would be like this:

1A - 3CDE
1B - 3CDF

1C - 2D
2E - 2F

-----------

1D - 2C
2A - 2B

1E - 3ACD
1F - 3BCD

Code: Select all

Group		A	B	C	D	E	F
1st		3rd	3rd	2nd	2nd	3rd	3rd
2nd		2nd	2nd	1st  1st	2nd 2nd

The teams with the tougher opponents in R16, C and D, will face an easier opponent in the quarterfinals, if all favorites advance. 1st and 2nd place from the same group are kept apart until the final, and 3rd placed teams can only meet another team from their group in the semifinals.

But then 3rds can meet in quarters.

[Club-Mate]

England now had two games in Gelsenkirchen. Question is what's more ugly. City of Gelsenkirchen or England football?

Gelsenkirchen is the ugliest city in Germany…

Still enough to beat half of the top 20 list of the most beautiful cities in England.

Blackpool for exampel
Cost of living crisis, dilapidated hospitals and outdated infrastructure with Brexit at the top and 14 years of Tories are responsible for this.

Gelsenkirchen or "Swiftkirchen" has got a fascinating history with manor houses, castles and later it became an industral city and thereafter was marked by the decline of this industry. Nowadays you can see many industrial ruins from a glorious time which can be visited too. I would say it's an intersting city if you want to get thrown back into good old times and not just get drunken in an unattractive city center after a football match.
Btw Shaktar Donezk will play their CL matches in Gelsenkirchen.

[ThreeLions]

Gelsenkirchen is the ugliest city in Germany…

Still enough to beat half of the top 20 list of the most beautiful cities in England.

Blackpool for exampel
Cost of living crisis, dilapidated hospitals and outdated infrastructure with Brexit at the top and 14 years of Tories are responsible for this.

Gelsenkirchen or "Swiftkirchen" has got a fascinating history with manor houses, castles and later it became an industral city and thereafter was marked by the decline of this industry. Nowadays you can see many industrial ruins from a glorious time which can be visited too. I would say it's an intersting city if you want to get thrown back into good old times and not just get drunken in an unattractive city center when you have won a football match.
Btw Shaktar Donezk will play their CL matches in Gelsenkirchen.

Well...hopefully today is the day the Tories get their P45's from the people back home in UK.

[Overgame]

The draw can be 6 pots of 4 teams each (based on ranking or qualification results)

May be challenging to have balanced fixtures with 6 pots. With 3 pots, each team will play one match from each pot

You can have the teams from pots 1,4,5 play the teams from 2,3,6.

Which is terrible, being in pot 6 is better than being in 4 or 5, unless pot 6 is way weaker than 5. But even worse, you could, in theory, qualify with 3 losses.
I don't unnerstand why so many people want to use a "swiss system" (in a true swiss system the pairings are done after each round, so UEFA is using a new system created by Leandro Shara and not a swiss, but whatever) everywhere when they probably never experienced it. But using more than 2 groups is defeating the idea of using a swiss system.

[Shing]

May be challenging to have balanced fixtures with 6 pots. With 3 pots, each team will play one match from each pot

You can have the teams from pots 1,4,5 play the teams from 2,3,6.

Which is terrible, being in pot 6 is better than being in 4 or 5, unless pot 6 is way weaker than 5. But even worse, you could, in theory, qualify with 3 losses.
I don't unnerstand why so many people want to use a "swiss system" (in a true swiss system the pairings are done after each round, so UEFA is using a new system created by Leandro Shara and not a swiss, but whatever) everywhere when they probably never experienced it. But using more than 2 groups is defeating the idea of using a swiss system.

It has its problem but also has its pros. Like symmetric knockout stage matchings, and more strong teams face each other in group stage

[offside]

I follow Italian youth national teams closely and their performances and results in the last few years strongly suggest that their is a healthy supply of talent emerging, so it would be difficult for Italy to significantly improve in that respect.

There is an issue when players have to transition from the youth teams to the first teams at their clubs, but this has been gradually resolving itself during the last few years while the performances of youth national teams have improved.

What do you think about the way the career of Camarda ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francesco_Camarda ) is being managed?
Have you seen him play? Does he deserve to be part of the squad of a Serie A side already, or he still too young and to play in Serie C suits him better?

I apologize with the rest of the forum for this quick off-topic.

[air]

May be challenging to have balanced fixtures with 6 pots. With 3 pots, each team will play one match from each pot

You can have the teams from pots 1,4,5 play the teams from 2,3,6.

Which is terrible, being in pot 6 is better than being in 4 or 5, unless pot 6 is way weaker than 5. But even worse, you could, in theory, qualify with 3 losses.
I don't unnerstand why so many people want to use a "swiss system" (in a true swiss system the pairings are done after each round, so UEFA is using a new system created by Leandro Shara and not a swiss, but whatever) everywhere when they probably never experienced it. But using more than 2 groups is defeating the idea of using a swiss system.

I agree that it's not fair this way, but having 2 groups of 12 teams solves this issue. If UEFA doesn't like to have 6-6 last GS games to be played at the same time business-wise, they can organise 4 GS games per team instead of three.

Still, Swiss system is the best imo.

[Tazmania]

I follow Italian youth national teams closely and their performances and results in the last few years strongly suggest that their is a healthy supply of talent emerging, so it would be difficult for Italy to significantly improve in that respect.

There is an issue when players have to transition from the youth teams to the first teams at their clubs, but this has been gradually resolving itself during the last few years while the performances of youth national teams have improved.

What do you think about the way the career of Camarda ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francesco_Camarda ) is being managed?
Have you seen him play? Does he deserve to be part of the squad of a Serie A side already, or he still too young and to play in Serie C suits him better?

I apologize with the rest of the forum for this quick off-topic.

He's an exceptional talent but he's only 16 so he needs careful management. Probably still a bit too young at the moment to play in men's club football.

[ThreeLions]

You can have the teams from pots 1,4,5 play the teams from 2,3,6.

Which is terrible, being in pot 6 is better than being in 4 or 5, unless pot 6 is way weaker than 5. But even worse, you could, in theory, qualify with 3 losses.
I don't unnerstand why so many people want to use a "swiss system" (in a true swiss system the pairings are done after each round, so UEFA is using a new system created by Leandro Shara and not a swiss, but whatever) everywhere when they probably never experienced it. But using more than 2 groups is defeating the idea of using a swiss system.

I agree that it's not fair this way, but having 2 groups of 12 teams solves this issue. If UEFA doesn't like to have 6-6 last GS games to be played at the same time business-wise, they can organise 4 GS games per team instead of three.

Still, Swiss system is the best imo.

2 groups of 12 still doesn't guarantee all the best teams go through though!