Battle for important ranking positions 2024-25

[kurt]

In my eyes it would be better and more faire that spot 6-7-8 would be all the same.
spot 6-7-8 : 1 CH direct spot and 1 Qualifying round all cup winners in EL directly and 1 team Qround in EL and Conference league

You have the big 5 and they will always be the big 5.

Netherland-Portugal-Belgium with possible 3 teams in Champions league ( spot 6 ) is not realistic.
It is too much. It would be more faire that country number 11 has a direct spot and country rankend number 6 only 1 spot.

Now Portugal on spot 6, then Netherlands then Belgium in 2 years and then again the circle.
No country is storng enough to hold position 6.
A few years with good teams in conference league you climb from 8 to 6. Then low points in champions league the you drop to spot 7 and 8.

I want stability. I prefer every year the same instead of 6 teams in europe and only 1 in conference league and then few years later only 1 team in champions league and 2 teams in conference league.

Do you see that all 5 clubs from the Netherlands, Portugal and Belgium passed the LP? Let's say out of 5 Italian clubs only 4 passed, out of 4 Spanish clubs only 3 passed, out of 5 German clubs only 3 passed.
If we want a strong and competitive CL, we should reduce the number of direct spots for the Top 5 leagues and definitely allow the strongest clubs from Portugal, the Netherlands, Belgium, and other countries to participate in the CL qualifications. I would give only the champions of the Netherlands, Portugal and Belgium a direct place in the CL, but I would also allow the second, third and fourth clubs of those countries to play in the CL qualifiers. If they are strong enough and pass the qualifications, let them play each of the 4 clubs in the CL.

I think no team in Belgium is really at the level of the Champions League. Ajax and PSV from the Netherlands, Porto and Benfica(sometimes sporting) from Portugal are at the level of the Champions League. Belgian teams are more at the level of the Europa League and the Conference League.

PSV is not better then Club Brugge. They are at the same level.
Only Ajax is better.

Club Brugge has the highest teamranking.
All the points gasthered in champions league. Not in the easy conference league or europe league.

PSV had the easiest oppononts of almost all teams.
3 oppononts from PSV did not qyalify to last 24.
For Club Brugge 7 oppononts made it to last 24. Only Sturm Graz is out.
And not a C team Liverpool at rhe end but a Manchester City that needed the points.
2 years back Club Brugge with last 16 in CL.

In figures for the last 5 year Club Brugge is better then PSV and Ajax.

But i am fair , Ajax is better.
You are not fair to say that PSV belongs in CL and Club
Brugge not.

Wake up Call.

[Clockingbell]

Brugge got 19 points in ECL last season. They're certainly CL proof, but so is PSV (last 16 last season, now nr 14), while Ajax only was better in a couple of seasons (2018-19, 2021-22), in the other seasons they did almost nothing. Also, Feyenoord has proven themselves worthy the last 2 seasons with better results than any Belgian club, bar Brugge.

[kurt]

Brugge got 19 points in ECL last season. They're certainly CL proof, but so is PSV (last 16 last season, now nr 14), while Ajax only was better in a couple of seasons (2018-19, 2021-22), in the other seasons they did almost nothing.

Last 5 seasons Club Brugge champions league 4 times.
With 2 of 4 to next round.
How many times PSV ? PSV easypoints in EL/CoL and still behind in teamranking.

I am not pretending that Club Brugge is better then PSV.
But someone is pretending that PSV is better .

He is sleeping last 5 years.
You can make it the last 10 years.
Club Brugge is higher on team ranking at he start of next season in teamranking of last 10 years.

[naaba]

Brugge is definitely NOT below PSV or Feyenoord. If they are not equal, then Brugge is above by a bit.

For the past 10 seasons, Brugge played 1 semi-final (Conference League), 1 quarter final (Europa League) and went past group/league stage of Champions League 2 times.

Meanwhile, PSV : 1 quarter final of Conference League, and 3 times went through in Champions League.

And Feyenoord : 1 final of Conference League, 1 quarter final of Europa League, 1 qualification to next round of Champions League. They even didn't play any European Cup in 2015/2016

Brugge is above all Dutch clubs in UEFA ranking.

Only Ajax is definitely above Brugge... and only because they have a big stadium, big name, good youth academy, and they sell players well (that's many elements, I must admit). But with the current line ups, Brugge could definitely eliminate them.

The problem of Brugge is that they have been running after a new stadium for many years. Politics in Belgium make it almost impossible to get a new stadium (look at the catastrophic Euro 2020 bid). Brugge's stadium has been outdated since before they hosted Euro 2000. They still hope to get a 40.000 seated stadium.

Also main difference is general population mentality. Belgians tend to have a low esteem of themselves, while Dutch are seen as arrogant but ready to fight.

That's also why Portugal has an advantage : the population LOVES football. Porto and Benfica are definitely above Brugge, while Sporting would be in the same category, or just tiny below Brugge.

But behind those 3 giants, there is nothing bar maybe Braga some seasons. Belgium has many clubs who had some OK runs for multiple seasons : Antwerp, Anderlecht, Brugge, Genk, Gent, Standard Liège, Union Saint-Gilloise. With only 5 European slots, it means the road is barred for the minnows (see Go Ahead Eagles, Groningen, PEC Zwolle, Rio Ave, FC Arouca, Santa Clara, etc.). And every now and then a minnow actually makes a good season (Lokeren and Zulte-Waregem multiple times each, Cercle Brugge this season).

Belgian's league is definitely the most homogeneous league outside of Top 5. That's why Belgium locked the 8th place for many seasons. They just lack an "Ajax" or a "Porto".

[Clockingbell]

I think Brugge is actually pulling ahead in Belgium and becoming what Ajax used to be in the Netherlands for a couple of seasons. That makes it easier to achieve CL in this particular situation of multiple clubs with OK runs in EL/ECL, because the champions of Belgium always has a spot in CL that way. This is harder for multiple teams who are competing for 1 direct spot, like Ajax, PSV and Feyenoord, and through non-champions qualifying path, which only Brugge, Ajax and PSV achieved once. So while the competition in Belgium as a whole may be stronger, that doesn't show that its champion is better than its Dutch counterpart.

Moreover, I think the argument of lots of easy points in EL/ECL is more fitting for Brugge, with 1 SF and 1 QF. And PSV passing group stage in 3 out of 5 seasons in the last 10 years does show their capabilities more than Brugge passing twice, doesn't it? The form of the day is probably most important if they would play each other.

[amirbachar]

Great season for Greek clubs. We already equalled last season's coefficient and have 3 clubs left. Their next matches are against OK opponents, so they could proceed further.

There is an inflation, so the points from last year are not directly comparable.

[kurt]

I think Brugge is actually pulling ahead in Belgium and becoming what Ajax used to be in the Netherlands for a couple of seasons. That makes it easier to achieve CL in this particular situation of multiple clubs with OK runs in EL/ECL, because the champions of Belgium always has a spot in CL that way. This is harder for multiple teams who are competing for 1 direct spot, like Ajax, PSV and Feyenoord, and through non-champions qualifying path, which only Brugge, Ajax and PSV achieved once. So while the competition in Belgium as a whole may be stronger, that doesn't show that its champion is better than its Dutch counterpart.

Moreover, I think the argument of lots of easy points in EL/ECL is more fitting for Brugge, with 1 SF and 1 QF. And PSV passing group stage in 3 out of 5 seasons in the last 10 years does show their capabilities more than Brugge passing twice, doesn't it? The form of the day is probably most important if they would play each other.

Wake up please. Teamranking is the last 5 years.
Club brugge 4 times champions league and only once conference league.
And Club brugge higher teamranking then als teams of the Netherlands.

Conclusion is that Club Brugge gathered a lot of points in CL

[seso]

Great season for Greek clubs. We already equalled last season's coefficient and have 3 clubs left. Their next matches are against OK opponents, so they could proceed further.

There is an inflation, so the points from last year are not directly comparable.

Yes, but still a great season!

[eye]

Great season for Greek clubs. We already equalled last season's coefficient and have 3 clubs left. Their next matches are against OK opponents, so they could proceed further.

There is an inflation, so the points from last year are not directly comparable.

That's right. More points are awarded this season.

If we want to compare we should assume that at CoL Panathinaikos would have earned same points since number of matches are same (would have been different though) and at EL we should remove the matches of Olympiakos and PAOK against clubs of same pot (2 wins 2 draws) so Greece would have earned 4 points less.
We should also calculate the bonus points differently. Olympiakos got 4,5+1 bonus points would have taken 4+1 at previous format, PAOK got 0,75 bonus points but wouldn't have taken bonus points at previous format and Panathinaikos got 1,5 bonus points and would have taken 1 at previous format so totally 1,75 less bonus points.

The total sum is 5,75 less points so the coefficient for Greece would have been (44,25-5,75)/4=9,625. This means Greek clubs would need 7 more points in order to have similar coefficient than a year ago and they have minimum 6 matches to make it.

[seso]

Great season for Greek clubs. We already equalled last season's coefficient and have 3 clubs left. Their next matches are against OK opponents, so they could proceed further.

There is an inflation, so the points from last year are not directly comparable.

That's right. More points are awarded this season.

If we want to compare we should assume that at CoL Panathinaikos would have earned same points since number of matches are same (would have been different though) and at EL we should remove the matches of Olympiakos and PAOK against clubs of same pot (2 wins 2 draws) so Greece would have earned 4 points less.
We should also calculate the bonus points differently. Olympiakos got 4,5+1 bonus points would have taken 4+1 at previous format, PAOK got 0,75 bonus points but wouldn't have taken bonus points at previous format and Panathinaikos got 1,5 bonus points and would have taken 1 at previous format so totally 1,75 less bonus points.

The total sum is 5,75 less points so the coefficient for Greece would have been (44,25-5,75)/4=9,625. This means Greek clubs would need 7 more points in order to have similar coefficient than a year ago and they have minimum 6 matches to make it.

Great post, eye! No issue for Greece in the next 6 matches!

[Clockingbell]

I think Brugge is actually pulling ahead in Belgium and becoming what Ajax used to be in the Netherlands for a couple of seasons. That makes it easier to achieve CL in this particular situation of multiple clubs with OK runs in EL/ECL, because the champions of Belgium always has a spot in CL that way. This is harder for multiple teams who are competing for 1 direct spot, like Ajax, PSV and Feyenoord, and through non-champions qualifying path, which only Brugge, Ajax and PSV achieved once. So while the competition in Belgium as a whole may be stronger, that doesn't show that its champion is better than its Dutch counterpart.

Moreover, I think the argument of lots of easy points in EL/ECL is more fitting for Brugge, with 1 SF and 1 QF. And PSV passing group stage in 3 out of 5 seasons in the last 10 years does show their capabilities more than Brugge passing twice, doesn't it? The form of the day is probably most important if they would play each other.

Wake up please. Teamranking is the last 5 years.
Club brugge 4 times champions league and only once conference league.
And Club brugge higher teamranking then als teams of the Netherlands.

Conclusion is that Club Brugge gathered a lot of points in CL

You're right. Brugge gathered a lot (48,25 as of right now) points in CL. I don't want to descredit that and I was mixing up answers to 2 different members in one post. Still, their season with most points was the one in ECL and the seasons with most points for PSV were the last 2 seasons, both in CL. The implication that Brugge can only be equal to or better than PSV is just not true, but it's not a big deal.

[kurt]

I think Brugge is actually pulling ahead in Belgium and becoming what Ajax used to be in the Netherlands for a couple of seasons. That makes it easier to achieve CL in this particular situation of multiple clubs with OK runs in EL/ECL, because the champions of Belgium always has a spot in CL that way. This is harder for multiple teams who are competing for 1 direct spot, like Ajax, PSV and Feyenoord, and through non-champions qualifying path, which only Brugge, Ajax and PSV achieved once. So while the competition in Belgium as a whole may be stronger, that doesn't show that its champion is better than its Dutch counterpart.

Moreover, I think the argument of lots of easy points in EL/ECL is more fitting for Brugge, with 1 SF and 1 QF. And PSV passing group stage in 3 out of 5 seasons in the last 10 years does show their capabilities more than Brugge passing twice, doesn't it? The form of the day is probably most important if they would play each other.

Wake up please. Teamranking is the last 5 years.
Club brugge 4 times champions league and only once conference league.
And Club brugge higher teamranking then als teams of the Netherlands.

Conclusion is that Club Brugge gathered a lot of points in CL

You're right. Brugge gathered a lot (48,25 as of right now) points in CL. I don't want to descredit that and I was mixing up answers to 2 different members in one post. Still, their season with most points was the one in ECL and the seasons with most points for PSV were the last 2 seasons, both in CL. The implication that Brugge can only be equal to or better than PSV is just not true, but it's not a big deal.

Ajax, Porto, Benfica from a higher level. ( in the past, the present and the future )

For me PSV, Club Brugge, Feyenoord, Lissabon are the same level nowadays. ( PSV and Lissabon in the past higher level )

Gent, Anderlecht, FC Twente, Utrecht, Genk, Standaard Luik, Heerenveen, AZ, Antwerp, .... from a lower level.

[De Republiek]

Ajax, Porto, Benfica from a higher level. ( in the past, the present and the future )

For me PSV, Club Brugge, Feyenoord, Lissabon are the same level nowadays. ( PSV and Lissabon in the past higher level )

Gent, Anderlecht, FC Twente, Utrecht, Genk, Standaard Luik, Heerenveen, AZ, Antwerp, .... from a lower level.

I think that is reasonable. I will say that these things are always moving (slowly) but never stand still. For example 10-15 years ago you could swap Brugge and Anderlecht. Very different from today.

[Clockingbell]

Ajax, Porto, Benfica from a higher level. ( in the past, the present and the future )

For me PSV, Club Brugge, Feyenoord, Lissabon are the same level nowadays. ( PSV and Lissabon in the past higher level )

Gent, Anderlecht, FC Twente, Utrecht, Genk, Standaard Luik, Heerenveen, AZ, Antwerp, .... from a lower level.

I think that is reasonable. I will say that these things are always moving (slowly) but never stand still. For example 10-15 years ago you could swap Brugge and Anderlecht. Very different from today.

Braga and Union should be in the third tier, I guess? I don't think Heerenveen should be included these days, Utrecht also is very debatable. It's always about perspective: if it's about eternal status, Ajax, Benfica and Porto are on top, no doubt (multiple CL's won). The last 10 years, Ajax is down a bit, but still in the same range. Last 5 years, Brugge, Sporting, Feyenoord and PSV are on kind of the same level.

[kurt]

you are totally right.

Union and Braga are the same level of tier 3