Battles for important ranking positions 2022-2023

including formats, draws, seedings, etc.
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bjkman1903
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Post by bjkman1903 »

swissfootballdata wrote: Fri Nov 04, 2022 12:52I'm very impressed by Turkey, especially because there are so many unexperienced teams who perform so well. Any insights what cases this strong performances? They can even make top 10 now, it's not that unrealistic.
It's probably a combination of many factors :

- No team in CL GS for the first time in 25 years (obviously it is much harder to score points in CL)
- First time ever we had Turkish teams in ECL group stage (allowing us to "milk" the system a bit too)
- The approach towards European games have changed drastically since last season's fiasco (Turkey #20)
- Luck, of course, is almost essential for a strong performance

Fenerbahçe have a very good squad with an experienced coach (Jorge Jesus) - they also dominate Turkish league right now.
Jorge Jesus is using his squad efficiently by rotating players and getting the best performance from each of them.

Istanbul Basaksehir dodget a bullet in qualifications (v Antwerp). They have a great team with many experienced players. Hearts and RFS were too weak and they won the first place in Turkey with their 3-0 victory over Fiorentina.

While I expected Fenerbahçe and Istanbul Basaksehir's sucess, I can't say the same for Trabzonspor. They are not reliable but still got 3 home wins

Sivasspor on the other hand, is almost entirely by luck only.
I would rate Konyaspor as a stronger team than Sivasspor (despite the loss v Vaduz, which was an accident)
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ultra2013
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Post by ultra2013 »

Witkop1983 wrote: Fri Nov 04, 2022 12:21
bjkman1903 wrote: Fri Nov 04, 2022 12:10
nogomet wrote: Fri Nov 04, 2022 11:25 Feyenoord rewarded with the same amount of bonus points for finishing first in an EL group with Sturm, Midtyjlland and Lazio, as Porto and Benfica who finished first in their CL groups with PSG, Atletico Madrid, Juventus, Leverkusen, etc.

The result: Portugal can kiss their 6th place goodbye. They are too successful in CL. Thus, they shall be punished by having one team removed from that same competition in future seasons. Instead, the country with 0 clubs passing the CL group stage shall be rewarded by having an extra team in that competition because their teams were successful against the likes of Vaduz, Zurich, Sturm, Apollon, and co.

What a clownish system.
It's not entirely the same amount of bonus points, Porto and Benfica have an extra 4 points for just being in CL group stage.

If Portugal lose its 6th place, it would probably be because they didn't have any team in ECL group stage and didn't benefit from those easy points.
Even if you look at the Netherlands, you see AZ in ECL (17 pts) v Ajax in CL (8pts). This is the "reward" for being in CL.

The same could be said for Scotland, with both Rangers and Celtic in CL GS they got (by far) their worst season in terms of coefficient points.
The comparison between Ajax and AZ is a nice one. My feeling is they should have around the same points... So maybe we should double the CL points, and have EL points multiplied by 1,5?
I really hope this happens starting 2024-2025 season. The system is broken right now.
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Witkop1983
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Post by Witkop1983 »

So, Liechtenstein finished 34rd... Is that enough to get any benefits?
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Post by Bulgarian »

Witkop1983 wrote: Fri Nov 04, 2022 17:43 So, Liechtenstein finished 34rd... Is that enough to get any benefits?
I think Vaduz can still get an EL qualification? I know the cut off was 33 but in certain scenario it could roll to 34th if im not mistaken. Someone more informed should tell here.
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Post by dnina10 »

Bulgarian wrote: Fri Nov 04, 2022 17:56
Witkop1983 wrote: Fri Nov 04, 2022 17:43 So, Liechtenstein finished 34rd... Is that enough to get any benefits?
I think Vaduz can still get an EL qualification? I know the cut off was 33 but in certain scenario it could roll to 34th if im not mistaken. Someone more informed should tell here.
We'll have to wait for more information, but the LIE CW will start in ECL Q2 minimum in 2024
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Firnen
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Post by Firnen »

We've all kind of forgotten the Battle for the Top 2 Coefficients of the year, which will give 2 extra CL spots.

One is guaranteed to go to England, Germany is currently 2nd but with Spain having multiple teams in the EL, they could overtake them.

Italy is also hoping, with 2 teams in the ECL while Spain has 1 and Germany 0.
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Post by amenina »

Firnen wrote: Fri Nov 04, 2022 18:48 We've all kind of forgotten the Battle for the Top 2 Coefficients of the year, which will give 2 extra CL spots.

One is guaranteed to go to England, Germany is currently 2nd but with Spain having multiple teams in the EL, they could overtake them.

Italy is also hoping, with 2 teams in the ECL while Spain has 1 and Germany 0.
Nothing to do with this season. The battle starts next season.

The 1-year country coefficient of 23/24 will be used to determine 2 extra CL spot of 24/25.
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Post by swissfootballdata »

Firnen wrote: Fri Nov 04, 2022 18:48 We've all kind of forgotten the Battle for the Top 2 Coefficients of the year, which will give 2 extra CL spots.

One is guaranteed to go to England, Germany is currently 2nd but with Spain having multiple teams in the EL, they could overtake them.

Italy is also hoping, with 2 teams in the ECL while Spain has 1 and Germany 0.
Wait the ranking this season is not relevant for 24/25 in that regard, right? The two extra spots are awarded to the top ranked nations at the end of season 23/24

Anyways, this season just shows that it's almost impossible to outmatch the big nations, even with an epic run like Turkey.

It also will be hilarious if some leagues are already finished and the teams do not know if they can play CL or not. Not that unlikely, if it comes down to the point distribution in the finals
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Post by amenina »

Bulgarian wrote: Fri Nov 04, 2022 17:56
Witkop1983 wrote: Fri Nov 04, 2022 17:43 So, Liechtenstein finished 34rd... Is that enough to get any benefits?
I think Vaduz can still get an EL qualification? I know the cut off was 33 but in certain scenario it could roll to 34th if im not mistaken. Someone more informed should tell here.
They should be the first in line to be promoted from ECL to EL if there are vacancies. For example in some cases where title holders spot is not used, or if Russia stays banned.

Also with Liechtenstein finishing 34th, it means for associations 30-33, their N2 will enter ECL-Q2, while their N3 will enter ECL-Q1.
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Firnen
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Post by Firnen »

amenina wrote: Fri Nov 04, 2022 18:52
Firnen wrote: Fri Nov 04, 2022 18:48 We've all kind of forgotten the Battle for the Top 2 Coefficients of the year, which will give 2 extra CL spots.

One is guaranteed to go to England, Germany is currently 2nd but with Spain having multiple teams in the EL, they could overtake them.

Italy is also hoping, with 2 teams in the ECL while Spain has 1 and Germany 0.
Nothing to do with this season. The battle starts next season.

The 1-year country coefficient of 23/24 will be used to determine 2 extra CL spot of 24/25.
Ah, right, I got it mixed because the Country Ranking usually applies 1 season in advance.
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Post by Fotcalc »

amenina wrote: Fri Nov 04, 2022 18:57
Bulgarian wrote: Fri Nov 04, 2022 17:56
Witkop1983 wrote: Fri Nov 04, 2022 17:43 So, Liechtenstein finished 34rd... Is that enough to get any benefits?
I think Vaduz can still get an EL qualification? I know the cut off was 33 but in certain scenario it could roll to 34th if im not mistaken. Someone more informed should tell here.
They should be the first in line to be promoted from ECL to EL if there are vacancies. For example in some cases where title holders spot is not used, or if Russia stays banned.

Also with Liechtenstein finishing 34th, it means for associations 30-33, their N2 will enter ECL-Q2, while their N3 will enter ECL-Q1.
I thought all vacancies from the 24/25 season were to be filled based on who has the highest individual club coefficient.
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dnina10
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Post by dnina10 »

Fotcalc wrote: Fri Nov 04, 2022 19:40
amenina wrote: Fri Nov 04, 2022 18:57
Bulgarian wrote: Fri Nov 04, 2022 17:56

I think Vaduz can still get an EL qualification? I know the cut off was 33 but in certain scenario it could roll to 34th if im not mistaken. Someone more informed should tell here.
They should be the first in line to be promoted from ECL to EL if there are vacancies. For example in some cases where title holders spot is not used, or if Russia stays banned.

Also with Liechtenstein finishing 34th, it means for associations 30-33, their N2 will enter ECL-Q2, while their N3 will enter ECL-Q1.
I thought all vacancies from the 24/25 season were to be filled based on who has the highest individual club coefficient.
This isn't known yet. Still am waiting for more confirmation. Will ask my sources on that in due course
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Ricardo
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Post by Ricardo »

Besides, who really cares about those top 2 spots if it is England, Spain or Germany. It will be the same associations who have already too many teams in CL. :( :( :(
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Club-Mate
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Post by Club-Mate »

the only country which could bring a 5th strong team into CL is England or Spain maybe done with a qualifier of 5th team of nr. 1 and 2 in country ranking: England vs Spain.
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Post by swissfootballdata »

Ricardo wrote: Sat Nov 05, 2022 01:05 Besides, who really cares about those top 2 spots if it is England, Spain or Germany. It will be the same associations who have already too many teams in CL. :( :( :(
Yeah I agree. We will have to wait how they manage the point distribution, though. And if a Nation gains an additional spot, it will be harder to do so next season because of the bigger divisor (like Germany this year). So it may rotate a bit among the big nations.

But the gap is massive and will increase further, since the big teams can earn even more money. I would say if there is not a worldwide bore-out of the super rich football owner douchebags in the world Premier League got this additional spot in the bag.
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