2022/2023 CL (and UYL) Group E: Milan - Chelsea - Salzburg - Dinamo Zagreb

[Club-Mate]

sorry to interfere here. I often read posts in Croatian thread but I have not got the feeling yet that nogomet is notorically biased against Croatian clubs his comments are really good and very balanced but lifting the fingers when seeing something going into the wrong side for Croatian clubs. I wished someone like him in Austrian forum. (Funkmaster in this case was very competent and wrote nice articles hopefully he comes back one time!). Objective critism is good to read for neutral visitors (maybe not so much for you babaluj concerning Croatian football). If you ask me I would say nogomet lives in Zagreb does not support Dinamo at least not in HNL but rather the clubs from Adria coast like Hajduk and Rijeka.
However to call you troll twice is not good either I already explained why.

[Club-Mate]

back to group E. I'm sure not many people expected such a performance from Salzburg. But I have to say that they are almost always outstanding at home and more than deserve the point against Milan. Matthias Jaissle's team set an exclamation mark with this performance. I was impressed by how the young players fitted into the team already and how Dedic was able to come through Milan's key player Leao for almost 90 minutes and Dijon Kameri only 18 celebrated a successful premiere in CL. The way in which the team achieved this point against Serie A champion AC Milan will add another nuance to the club's reputation in Europe.

Okafor's goal serving two "tunnels" could be the goal of this matchday.

Corriere dello Sport
"for Milan's performance in Salzburg the 1-1 is not only a fair but also a valuable result. The Champions League is something different from Serie A. Milan has to adapt to a different game style even against an opponent who at least in theory is inferior to them"

La Repubblica
"Milan interrupts his symphony in Salzburg. A win against Salzburg would not have been easy for any team as the Austrians who are used to a fast pace football have not been defeated in home games since February 2021"

[nogomet]

sorry to interfere here. I often read posts in Croatian thread but I have not got the feeling yet that nogomet is notorically biased against Croatian clubs his comments are really good and very balanced but lifting the fingers when seeing something going into the wrong side for Croatian clubs. I wished someone like him in Austrian forum. (Funkmaster in this case was very competent and wrote nice articles hopefully he comes back one time!). Objective critism is good to read for neutral visitors (maybe not so much for you babaluj concerning Croatian football). If you ask me I would say nogomet lives in Zagreb does not support Dinamo at least not in HNL but rather the clubs from Adria coast like Hajduk and Rijeka.
However to call you troll twice is not good either I already explained why.

You can call me a fan of Croatian football more than a fan of any particular club, though because of my personal history Dinamo is certainly the club I have most emotional connections to.

But when I write, I try to put emotions aside as much as possible. I always write things as I see them and try to be as objective as I can be, acknowledging the fact that no person is 100% free of their own biases. Babaluj's theory that I write against Croatian teams is total BS, because anyone who cares enough to go back and check can find that I wrote that Dinamo will beat both Ludogorets and Bodo/Glimt because they were simply a better and more experienced team. Heck, those who care may remember that during the WC in Russia I was perhaps the only person on this forum that said that Croatia will beat Argentina and win the group, when the dominant feeling among users was that Croatia may even fail to reach R16, let alone win the group ahead of Argentina. Not because I'm a Croat and have an idealistic view of our team's strength, but because I objectively believed our team is strong and that Argentina was a paper tiger back then. But, just as well, you can be sure that when I see someone like babaluj writing that Osijek is a favorite against APOEL or that they will "surely declassify" CSKA Sofia, I'll speak up and call BS.

I also wrote recently that it would be better for CRO coefficient if Dinamo played in the EL because they are good enough to win the group there and get those 5 bonus points on top of the match points from wins and draws. If I thought Dinamo was so weak as babaluj falsly claims, then I certainly wouldn't have written about Dinamo winning their potential EL group. Dinamo was lucky with the CL draw because they have a fighting chance against all 3 teams and a realistic chance to stay in Europe past Christmas, but even if they do end up third in the group, that will still bring them less points than what they'd have won by potentially winning the EL group + 5 bonus points. Whether Croatia will stay in Top 20 is still up in the air. Dinamo can still finish fourth in their group, and if they do, Turkey with 4 clubs in EL/ECL is a favorite to overtake us. Put Dinamo in a group that Viktoria Plzen or Maccabi Haifa got, and it would've already been over.

As for Serbia, I wrote that they have a chance to fight for Top 10 before the draw laughed in the face of Partizan's pot 1 status in ECL. A group where a Pot 1 team draws two teams from the Big-5 leagues in ECL is a 1 in 100 event. Put Partizan in Basel's group instead, and suddenly the race for Top 10 doesn't seem so crazy any more.

Just to be clear, I'm not writing this to change babaluj's mind. He's a kid (hopefully) that just doesn't know any better. Perhaps with time and some life experience he'll start viewing things rationally, less emotional, and with a broader perspective of things. Not just in football, because I read some political/economic views from him in other threads that are very narrow, characteristic for people with less life experience.

[Greyn]

@nogomet
We already lost (too) many forum members who I highly regarded, I hope you will not be the next one. You are my primary source for the Croatian football. Last year I told my colleague that people who will buy tickets for Dinamo - Legia match in the CLq will have a priority status to buy tickets for possible Dinamo - Crvena zvezda match in the next round. He asked: "how the hell do you know that?" and I told him "I have my Croatian informator on the forum".

I share your 'philosophy' about writing, as much as possible, objective information on the forum and keeping emotions apart. I try to be as much objective as I can when I write about Legia, sometimes criticizing my favourite club. I believe that only objective information are valuable, same like 'bad' truth is always better than a 'good' lie.

[Firnen]

Nogomet is not a hater of Croatian clubs, LOL, quite the opposite.

He simply has high expectations and is very harsh on his criticism when they fail to deliver. I do the same for Greek clubs.

[matt]

Greek, Turkish, Polish, Romanian football fans when they login to this forum:

Look at the UEFA rating and suffer

[babaluj1]

There are simply no weak groups in the CL, on the contrary, they are getting stronger year after year. In this group, the Italian champion Milan, the Italian champion says it all. There is the current world club champion Chelsea, recently the CL winner. Along with them, the regular champions of Austria and the regular champion of Croatia, I would say the never stronger Salzburg, as well as Dinamo, there will be great matches and a lot of surprises. Realistically, I think that Chelsea is the strongest here, even though they are not in the right shape yet, but they will settle down soon. Dinamo is an outsider, but only on paper. I expect a fierce fight for every point, especially between Milan, Salzburg and Dinamo for the second and third place, and a fair trial and may the better, luckier and more skilled one pass.

[agram]

How the hell did we get to debating whether @nogomet is a hater of Croatian football?

How the hell did we get to debating about opinions expressed by babaluj?

[Bulgarian]

Greek, Turkish, Polish, Romanian football fans when they login to this forum:

Look at the UEFA rating and suffer

I also suffer

[bbi]

well, I do like to remind people every time the existence of "foe" on the forum, my experience increased considerably, the only problem is that when I just read with out posting some times I am not logged in.

returning to the business at hand. Dinamo made this group much more interesting. Chelsea will have now to focus on every CL game if they want 1st spot and I don't think with the team they have they could be sure of 1st place even if the form improves. Like most I predicted a Chelsea win but wasn't that surprised, not because of Dinamo, but more because Chelsea seemed shaky in PL and the team changes were to big to not make a tall. Still to early for me change the predictions of group standing Chelsea, Milan, Salzburg, Dinamo

I was disappointed of Milan game. Milan had the possession, but was not dominating. I still say that the Milan players showed greater quality than Salzburg, but Salzburg played more like a team. In Italy Milan and Atalanta are the teams that try to play a modern dynamic style, with high press. What Salzburg did was exactly the same style Milan is trying to do, but more intense. And Milan is not very used to having to play against this type of football, in Italy almost nobody plays like this and they didn't play to many european games. Milan attack players always seemed to be a bit to slow, very often second to the ball. Leao was very well marked, everybody knows the "secret" that Leao is the magic maker for Milan, but not everybody is able to close him, even so he did manage to have some chances. The other problem with the high press was that Milan couldn't start with short passes from the back and all attack were delayed and becoming very static and Milan is not good in static situations, they need more space. I still believe in the return leg Milan can play better and get the all important win. Considering Salzburg record at home the actual point is not a disappointment, but a good result in the battle for qualification.
Next game at home vs Dinamo is a must win for Milan. You really can't qualify to the next stage if you don't win vs the pot 3 and pot 4 teams.

[bbi]

Greek, Turkish, Polish, Romanian football fans when they login to this forum:

Look at the UEFA rating and suffer

If you think that's suffering you can just watch one of the games of the romanian teams. not to mention a game between 2 romanian teams that's just what we call "bambilici" not football, when ever I switch from FCSB to Milan it seems like they are playing a different game altogether.

[bugylibicska]

Odds to win the group and to qualify after the 1st round:

Chelsea 2.00 - 1.20
Milan 2.11 - 1.20
Salzburg 11.00 - 3.50
Dinamo Zagreb 21.00 - 6.00

[Dragonite]

UYL:



Congraulations Dinamo Zagreb!


It's the first time in Dinamo Zagreb's UYL history that they score over 3 goals in a single match.


CL:



Congratulations Dinamo Zagreb!


A win against the current World Champion is a remarkable result.

Now let's see if they can collect enough points in the following matches to avoid the bottom of the group.

In 2015/2016 they finished bottom of their group despite starting with a win against Arsenal. In 2019/2020 they finished bottom of their group despite starting with a win against Atalanta.


Chelsea firing Thomas Tuchel is unfair and ungrateful. He only lost one match, there is still plenty of time to recover.

In 2007/2008 they also fired Mourinho after round 1 and then Grant took them to the final. Perhaps they believe that whoever replaces Tuchel now will be able to do the same. I don't.

[babaluj1]

This Dinamo today is incomparably stronger than 5,10 or 15 years ago. It compares to the one in 2019/20 when the WAR room kicked them out of 1/16th of the finals with a 93rd-minute penalty. A foul in the penalty area away from the ball that the referee didn't even see cost them 1/16 of the final. I hope that this season Dinamo will not do a similar stupidity, and that they will have a fair trial.

[Club-Mate]

How the hell did we get to debating whether @nogomet is a hater of Croatian football?

How the hell did we get to debating about opinions expressed by babaluj?

it had to be decided by a democratic election if babaluj is a troll or not. So the final result was 2:1 not to be a troll. Somebody voted against the rules twice "for troll" this had to be cancelled afterwards and he will get a postal delivered rebuke for this. A democratic process sometimes lasts a bit longer. We are not autocrats where one person can decide all.