2018 World Cup

[Duketown]

Yes, they should introduce no color medals for this, with a shade of gray. But serious, it's terrible always getting beaten once things matters most. It's the opposite of those German late goals.

I think it's boring always looking for the exceptions. We have Malko for that..

Paraguay was tough in 1998--they finished ahead of La Roja in the GS to eliminate us. I missed that game, as I sat in New York awaiting a flight after missing the scheduled departure due to a storm while we were in transit to New York.

Paraguay had Jose Luis Chilavert, one of the best goalies ever graced the world. He was simply sensational against Spain. And after 2 draws (Bulgaria and Spain) Paraguay had the luck to play already qualified Nigeria and won 3:2 while Spain lost against a motivated and very good Nigeria in the 1st round.

Amazing keeper! Too bad he didn't manage to score a penalty on WC.

[bugylibicska]

Paraguay was tough in 1998--they finished ahead of La Roja in the GS to eliminate us. I missed that game, as I sat in New York awaiting a flight after missing the scheduled departure due to a storm while we were in transit to New York.

Paraguay had Jose Luis Chilavert, one of the best goalies ever graced the world. He was simply sensational against Spain. And after 2 draws (Bulgaria and Spain) Paraguay had the luck to play already qualified Nigeria and won 3:2 while Spain lost against a motivated and very good Nigeria in the 1st round.

Amazing keeper! Too bad he didn't manage to score a penalty on WC.

I was a Paraguay fan that time and still convinced if Blanc wouldn`t have scored in extra time and penalties decide the winner Chilavert saved a few spotkicks and scored on his turn. A pity!

[Duketown]

Paraguay had Jose Luis Chilavert, one of the best goalies ever graced the world. He was simply sensational against Spain. And after 2 draws (Bulgaria and Spain) Paraguay had the luck to play already qualified Nigeria and won 3:2 while Spain lost against a motivated and very good Nigeria in the 1st round.

Amazing keeper! Too bad he didn't manage to score a penalty on WC.

I was a Paraguay fan that time and still convinced if Blanc wouldn`t have scored in extra time and penalties decide the winner Chilavert saved a few spotkicks and scored on his turn. A pity!

Where are the goalkeepers like him and Hinguita?

Too bad modern coaches became chickens. Last stunt, was Van Gaal in 2014, replacing Cillissen for Krul, to break Dutch penalty syndrome to become the first Dutch penalty hero (after a long history of disappointments, even so much it became a national problem).
Unseen, next-level genuisity, similar to Cruyff's lay off penalty. Those are true master-brains in football: stunning the world doing stuff nobody else even thinks of and be successful with it.

He should had done it again in semi finals against Argentina, but he became to greedy and wanted to finish them in overtime..

[greenbay]

Pot 1:
Russia
Brazil
Germany
Portugal
Argentina
Belgium
Poland
France

Pot 2
Spain
England
Mexico
Uruguay
Colombia
Italy (if...)
Switzerland (if...)
...

[nogomet]

Paraguay's failure to beat Venezuela cost Croatia a place in Pot 2. Now we need to hope one of Peru, Switzerland or Italy do not qualify. Otherwise we face a horror draw at the World Cup if we qualify.


Russia
Germany 1631
Brazil 1619
Portugal 1446
Argentina 1445
Belgium 1333
Poland 1323
France 1226
----------------------------------
Spain 1218
Peru 1160
Switzerland 1134
England 1116
Colombia 1095
Italy 1066
Mexico 1060
Uruguay 1034
--------------------------------
Croatia 1013
Denmark 1001
Iceland 920
Costa Rica 914
Northern Ireland 889
Sweden 872
Ireland 866
Tunisia 834
Egypt 818
Senegal 815
Iran 784
--------------------------------
Serbia 748
Nigeria 721
Australia 714
Japan 711
Greece 682
Morocco 680
Panama 670
Burkina Faso 639
Cote d'Ivoire 600
South Korea 588
Saudi Arabia 576
Cape Verde 568
Honduras 510
South Africa 473
New Zealand 256

[Sao]

Unseen, next-level genuisity, similar to Cruyff's lay off penalty. Those are true master-brains in football: stunning the world doing stuff nobody else even thinks of and be successful with it.

So what was Coppens thinking in 1957 (decades before Cruyff did his lay-off penalty) - http://sporza.be/cm/sporza/voetbal/1.2230454

[Sao]

Simple story.
Germany were rubbish in 2014, needing extra time vs Algeria.
Spain were rubbish in 2010, losing their opener to Switzerland.
Italy were rubbish in 2006, needing a dodgy penalty in added time to beat Australia.
While Belgium on the other hand always had just tough luck no to win the trophy.
If football Gods were just, then Belgium would be three-time defending champions

Who said this? I definitely didn't. Don't bully! I'm new here.
Are you saying Germany waltz over every opponent? They never struggle to break down packed defences? Never win ugly? Same for Spain in 2010, etc. Unless I'm reading things that aren't there (why would you even consider doing such a thing), how come Germany dropped points in the group in 2014, how come the match against the US was nothing to write home about, how come they didn't trample the opposition in the RO16, QFs and the final? If football Gods were just, then Germany would have won every WC game in history with 7-1 at the very least?

So true.. Setbacks creates winners. On the other side you can make a list with all those great groupstage victories and then meeting a struggling team to turn all those expectations upside down. For me, EC2000 is best example. The Netherlands giving a football exhibition against Yugoslavia and Italy, while the latter wins after penalties.

Most people don't understand that the impact of mindset, spirit and strong will, will always beat talent, specifically in tournaments when pressure rises. Thinking it is though luck, lol..

Quote me where I said luck (you can't). Instead I said:

A defensive side adept at depriving the best opposition of time, space and opportunity is hard to break down and especially in international football you shouldn't expect big wins. I agree we were hardly impressive in the group in Brazil but it takes two teams if you want to see an actual game of football. Both Algeria and (Capello's) Russia set up for an ultra defensive snoozefest against us and for the final one v. S.Korea only the goalie and Vertonghen played a 3rd game as we were already through. Compared to Germany v. Algeria we faced a more conservative Algeria and had to come from behind after Vertonghen's mistake. It didn't look pretty but we still won our game in 90'. Germany struggled for control untill the end of extra time and if those chances weren't wasted Algeria could have easily had a result against Germany. There are quite a lot of games where Germans (or another powerhouse) are short of ideas and don't score in 90'. It's a pain in the ass for everyone.

Germany's WC record speaks volumes and once again they're rightfully favourites in Russia. Yet you're wrong IF you think that in 2014 Germany's mindset made Algeria miss all those chances or the chances not taken by Argentina in the final for that matter. Just to be clear, that Algeria lacked composure in front of goal was NOT the result of osmosis.

Oranje-fever refers to the quality of our fans; not to our expectations. Those grow along with results. But why not? WC quarterfinals, semi-finals and finals are the norm; not the exception. This is already since the 70s, with the exception of the 80s but then we had the EC-title. Oranje only failed in 1990 and 2002. And Belgium? Without the exception in Mexico, ZERO history, while last 2 tournaments only confirmed history.
And we don't loose to underdogs or other outsiders; we lose to favorites, mostly while being better but lacking squad depth. This is a what sets favorites apart from outsiders and we learned that the hard way, via countless penalties, offside goals and terrible refs.
Even beaten by Wales refers to an outsider loosing to a surprise. Playing the big-boys is the platform where outsiders become challengers.

Oranje fever doesn't break out if those boastful fans don't turn the whole country orange, if dutchies don't start shouting they're already champions before a ball has even been kicked at the World Cup. TBF lately dutchies have toned it down and lowered their expectations. However the current players have been overrating themselves after punching well above their weight in 2014. Well, not being knocked out by Costa Rica or Mexico shouldn't be considered punching above their weight. Still it's a shame for Holland that history can't help them qualify for WC2018 or that history didn't intervene in WC2010, nor at EURO2012, history even failed them when Holland needed to avoid ending up in the bottom half of a very soft ECQ group for a 24 team EURO2016, etc. History also seems to have forgotten all about Hungary these days. Holland better take care they don't become another Hungary (at least they reached a 24 team EURO2016). OTOH Spain showed very little respect for history by winning their first WC title quite recently and France also won their first title a handful a WCs ago. Oddly, their opponent's history didn't change the result.

"WC quarterfinals" *1 QF exit in Holland's WC record, "semi-final"s 2 SF exits in Holland's WC record and "finals" *3 lost games, 3 national traumas "are the norm; not the exception". Holland can't add to their good WC record in Russia (mind you I'm not disputing that it looks good despite never actually winning the title). So 15 out of 21 WCs is NOT the norm; IS the exception? You're clearly wrong if you believe those other 6 WCs are the norm for Holland. 11 out of 21 WCs Holland failed to even reach the WC. That's more of a rule and Russia2018 isn't really an exception for Holland. 2018 (Sweden aren't one of the big boys), 2006 (Holland didn't win the battle of Nuremberg which you left out), 2002 (Ireland didn't have such an insanely talented squad and they weren't shouting they'd be champions before they even had qualified), let alone all the other games Holland failed to win against underdogs or outsiders. In the 50s and 60s Holland never qualified while from the 70s onwards Holland failed to qualify to 5 WCs (also it's nice of the dutchies to admit they would have failed to qualify for WC1974 without that referee error in the decisive qualifier). Dwell on the past and Holland's record in WC games all you want. Having "ZERO" future, "which the last 2 tournaments only confirmed" is a lot worse.

Mertens is a bit of a late bloomer? Not recognizing his winning attitude is large part of Belgium's early tournaments exits. He is a winner pur sang, already since he played at AGOVV. Somehow, people don't recognize this; even at PSV he didn't receive his deserved credits and even at Napoli it took forever. Same goes for Belgium NT. Besides being a winner, don't underestimate how smart he is and the spirit he brings to a team. Already in 2014 he was Belgiums best attacker.
Biggest win for Belgium is that their squad has 4-5 players which weren't raised with Belgium mindset but choose to play in The Netherlands at early age.
Stats say, that in France that Italy beat Belgium. Again losing from the big boys; also Sweden was a problem. Belgium still has to overcome many obstacles; beating the big boys only once would be huge. Beating them 2-3 times in a row is a dream for now.

True some Belgians played for Dutch clubs and I know it's a great feeling to be a supporter then. Glad to hear that you were able to share in that wonderful experience. Mertens looks young but he's in his 30s, not exactly a precocious talent anymore. Alderwereld, Vertonghen, Vermaelen and Dembele are all former Beerschot players that played in Holland for a very short time but have won very little silverware for clubs in the big leagues. Nainggolan also is ex-Beerschot but Ajax didn't think players like him, Dembele, Hazard, KDB et al. could ever come from Belgium. Beerschot's top scout wanted to bring them to Ajax but they didn't listen. "De Toekomst", OTOH, didn't look too bright. I can't recall any kids from Ajax (at the club before turning 16yo) that went on to become household names since Sneijder and V.D.Vaart came through in what feels like a century ago. Hazard, KDB, Courtois, Lukaku, Kompany, et al. developed very well without ever moving to the Eredivisie. Belgium's very best players didn't need the "positive impact" of Dutch clubs and they don't really struggle to win silverware for their clubs.

Now look at Holland these days. No other NT has so many players that were raised in Holland. How many have a winning attitude? Try to sound less as a bandwagoner. Be more direct and call them losers (like people do in Holland). It's sad that Robben, the only winner on the team, has to retire from international football with a whimper. It's better to have a look at the foreseeable future. As things stand now, not a single quality player on the team, not even on the horizon. Without Robben Holland will be one man short to even be called a one-man team.

I don't mind changing my views but your arguments aren't very convincing. You strongly disagree with my claim "depth is less important compared to club football". Yet an entire season lasts a fair bit longer than the WC and the schedule is more congested for top players because clubs have to battle on multiple fronts domestically and also in Europe. That most of the unused subs in past WCs are goalies and defenders is factual information. Disagree all you want but defenders are far more likely to return from a WC without playing a single minute.

I get that dutchies are frustrated, after failing to qualify for yet another tournament, but with yesterday's win there's a silver lining: Holland grabbed that final NL spot! We could get a Derby of the Low Countries. Still the last time that Holland were able to win against us, brave little Belgians, was over 20 years ago. Back then Holland had an awfully good squad and we've seen some crazy, open, eye-catching derbies in those 20 years ... none of which Holland won (just in case I forgot to mention it before, Holland haven't recorded a win against Belgium in over 20 years).

[Duketown]

Unseen, next-level genuisity, similar to Cruyff's lay off penalty. Those are true master-brains in football: stunning the world doing stuff nobody else even thinks of and be successful with it.

So what was Coppens thinking in 1957 (decades before Cruyff did his lay-off penalty) - http://sporza.be/cm/sporza/voetbal/1.2230454

Coppens?? Who is that?

[Duketown]

blah blah bash

Sao..

It's pretty simple: You consider Belgium top-4 favorite; I don't.

Then you have trouble accepting history as it is. Since history is long, we can continue debating ups and downs forever.
So I simply stick to the facts, which I already stated:
Oranje is successful every decade. WC quarterfinals, semi-finals and finals are the norm for Oranje; not the exception. This is already since the 70s, with the exception of the 80s but then we had the EC-title. Oranje only failed in 1990 and 2002, but those tournaments are surrounded with amazing results, not leaving a single decade untouched. Even EC2000 was an Oranje exhibition, both stadium-wize, fan-wise as NT-wise, while Belgium barely contributed to neither. The same problem is arising again, now EC2020 is heading towards another Bruxelles fiasco. But your still welcome in Amsterdam, if shame doesn't hold you back.
And Belgium? Without the exception in Mexico, ZERO history, while last 2 tournaments only confirmed history. Besides being neighbors, I don't even see reason to compare those 2 countries. And I have zero sport-wise interest in the 50s or 60s: never seen a match, don't like that kind of football, etc. For me, that period wasn't even about sports; it was about recovering from devastating wars.

Then you probably want to discuss WC2014 and EC2016 again: results speak for themselves. Italy and Argentina were simply too much and those matches only confirm history. By now, you should have learned to be modest and understand that reaching far in tournament is a whole other ballgame than qualifications or even WC group-stage, regardless history or expectations.

I referred to huge expectations in Belgium for 2014-16 tournaments: you downplay them and start comparing to Oranje fans. We can discuss this forever but that's how I experienced it.

Now you start about squad depth again, but I already laid out my arguments. You, obviously never experienced this so let's wait for WC2018 QF to discuss this again. I even think it silly to compare it to club-football. We are talking a 3 week tournament here; overcoming injuries and suspensions is what sets the big boys apart from the rest. And squad depth only becomes a problem once Belgium overcomes a much bigger problem, which is their lacking defensive skills, both on midfield as in defense. Since impact of coaches is huge, it remains to be seen if either defenders or coaches will be the main problem.

With all your Oranje bashing, you forget to discuss the real stuff: why Belgium isn't among the favorites. I consider them at the bottom of the list of the outsiders: ready to survive groupstage, a lucky draw can bring them to QF and I think they don't stand a change against the big boys. If the Divided Devils wins that, that would be the biggest WC upset since 2002. Beating them 2-3 times in a row, is only a dream for now. I gave you plenty reasons why they won't and you don't come with anything else then some minor match details, hope and dreams. Belgium still has to overcome many obstacles; hierarchy in football doesn't change overnight, specifically if results are lacking. Even Dragonite understands this basic law in football. Your nationalistic preferences clearly overrate your own players, underrates other teams and you won't recognize your weaknesses.

Than you talk about Derby of the Lowlands. Being from the south myself, I would love it!
I've hardly seen The Netherlands play Belgium (although Preud'homme gave Belgium the victory against The Netherlands in 1994, it was Oranje winning the group and reaching QF) and I've seen a few friendlies on TV. And I liked them: Belgium really trying hard to beat their successful brother and the Dutch already focused on the next match. It's probably the other way around this time, although Oranje seems to have the same effects on Belgium as red has on a bull..

And enjoy The Dutch not being there. Since you continue bashing, you must have a real strong minority complex, and blaming Oranje for it. I won't do this, since I feel more Flemish than Holland. I just prefer Dutch football history, their players and their results. Today, I prefer Belgium team and their players, but I simple don't consider them favorite for the clear reasons I mentioned. Clearly, you can't grasp my arguments and that's fine. Let's wait for some results.

FYI: I never consider Oranje among the favorites; we are to small, thus lacking depth like the big boys. I consider them as the best and most successful outsider ever. We don't have the best players either, however great coaches, great non-choking strikers and a successful tournament mentality do the job just fine. I don't expect them to win from the big boys, but somehow they managed to have 5 decades of significant history, decorated with silverware, many occasional upset victories, amazing strikers and many amazing results.
And comparing Dutch fans to Belgium fans is a joke although they made a nice comeback since 2014. If you ask me, their focus on their Oranje enemy is a bit over the top. Dutch fans don't even focus on Belgium but their focus is towards Germany. In both cases, it's the small brother challenging the big brother, in which Oranje is more successful than The Devided Devils are. Still, big brother isn't worried, even if incidents might happen.
Your very lucky to be part of this rare Belgium incident. Best case scenario, which is semi-finals, this incident finally might bring Belgium towards the level of Sweden, Turkey, Croatia, South Korea and Bulgaria; far-outsiders who managed to reach semi-finals since the 90s. Portugal is another worthy mention, being an outsider forever while having a nice track-record, they still will remain 2 levels above Belgium reputation. But all have in common that they lack recent (or even rusted) silverware while most of those upsets where rare incidents. Totally incomparable to Dutch track record of multiple flows of silverware and upsets victories every decade to reach deep in WC. So enjoy your incident while it last but it makes more sense to prepare for yet another exploding bubble. This time, the bubble might only manage to grow bigger than normal.

So yeah, feel free to blame me, blame the Dutch and deny reality. And if you really want to debate, then ask yourself why you would bring in Oranje on my insights on Belgium? Think about it and also think about it why it already happened in your first line...
I know I know, and it wasn't my reference to the huge expectations in Belgium; that only made you bash Dutch fans. You where triggered by my statement that Belgium is lacking a significant football history and the right mindset (which for me are the 2 main reasons besides lacking quality in current squad) and for that you needed to downplay Dutch great football history, start bashing and twisting reality. Tom Thumb is even more realistic, giving respect where deserved and taking credit if applicable.

[Duketown]

so Sao, you can debate all you want but results from the past don't lie.
Mindset is always up to debate. Also current quality is an everlasting discussion on this forum, mostly full of nationalistic preferences. In club football it's a completely different debate but in tournaments it's a matter of comparing the successful against the everlasting losers.

It's easy to understand that large countries with football history will continue to deliver a steady stream of talents above those smaller countries. Also, everybody understands to deduct incidents and find trends to gain insights.

Since I consider all humans equal and since Messi proved that physique is only part of the discussion, we have to find better answers in the mental aspects of sports. Still, it remains hard to explain the sudden Spanish Golden years but explaining everlasting failure is a lot easier since there are no arguments to prove the opposite. The Divided Devils are one of the best example in the world in the regards of mental aspects of sports. Excluding cycling, it overlaps to all other sports aswell. Just like Dutch football success overlaps to many other sports. But makes current Dutch cycling "success", the Dutch a better cycling nation than Belgium? No. And Zoetemelk isn't better than Merckx either. You see, it's not hard admitting reality. There are reasons the Dutch have a crazy amount of Olympic medals and the Belgiums don't. Things don't happen out of thin air.

If you are not up to discussing real reasons for success or failure, it's easy to understand you fallback to bashing those who dare to touch your FANtastic bubble to bring a simple reality of Belgium not being among top-4 favorites. But don't be to harsh on yourself; you are not the first to get caught in the moment.

[Sao]

You consider Belgium top4 favorite; I don't.

Quote me (again, you can't because I never said so). It would have been much better for the rest of your post if I did make that claim. Better luck next time.

Then you have trouble accepting history as it is. Since history is long, we can continue debating ups and downs forever.
So I simply stick to the facts, which I already stated:
Oranje is successful every decade. WC quarterfinals, semi-finals and finals are the norm for Oranje; not the exception. This is already since the 70s, with the exception of the 80s but then we had the EC-title. Oranje only failed in 1990 and 2002, but those tournaments are surrounded with amazing results, not leaving a single decade untouched. Even EC2000 was an Oranje exhibition, both stadium-wize, fan-wise as NT-wise, while Belgium barely contributed to neither. The same problem is arising again, now EC2020 is heading towards another Bruxelles fiasco. But your still welcome in Amsterdam, if shame doesn't hold you back.
And Belgium? Without the exception in Mexico, ZERO history, while last 2 tournaments only confirmed history. Besides being neighbors, I don't even see reason to compare those 2 countries. And I have zero sport-wise interest in the 50s or 60s: never seen a match, don't like that kind of football, etc. For me, that period wasn't even about sports; it was about recovering from devastating wars.

Then you probably want to discuss WC2014 and EC2016 again: results speak for themselves. Italy and Argentina were simply too much and those matches only confirm history. By now, you should have learned to be modest and understand that reaching far in tournament is a whole other ballgame than qualifications or even WC group-stage, regardless history or expectations.

I referred to huge expectations in Belgium for 2014-16 tournaments: you downplay them and start comparing to Oranje fans. We can discuss this forever but that's how I experienced it.

Now you start about squad depth again, but I already laid out my arguments. You, obviously never experienced this so let's wait for WC2018 QF to discuss this again. I even think it silly to compare it to club-football. We are talking a 3 week tournament here; overcoming injuries and suspensions is what sets the big boys apart from the rest. And squad depth only becomes a problem once Belgium overcomes a much bigger problem, which is their lacking defensive skills, both on midfield as in defense. Since impact of coaches is huge, it remains to be seen if either defenders or coaches will be the main problem.

With all your Oranje bashing, you forget to discuss the real stuff: why Belgium isn't among the favorites. I consider them at the bottom of the list of the outsiders: ready to survive groupstage, a lucky draw can bring them to QF and I think they don't stand a change against the big boys. If the Divided Devils wins that, that would be the biggest WC upset since 2002. Beating them 2-3 times in a row, is only a dream for now. I gave you plenty reasons why they won't and you don't come with anything else then some minor match details, hope and dreams. Belgium still has to overcome many obstacles; hierarchy in football doesn't change overnight, specifically if results are lacking. Even Dragonite understands this basic law in football. Your nationalistic preferences clearly overrate your own players, underrates other teams and you won't recognize your weaknesses.

Than you talk about Derby of the Lowlands. Being from the south myself, I would love it!
I've hardly seen The Netherlands play Belgium (although Preud'homme gave Belgium the victory against The Netherlands in 1994, it was Oranje winning the group and reaching QF) and I've seen a few friendlies on TV. And I liked them: Belgium really trying hard to beat their successful brother and the Dutch already focused on the next match. It's probably the other way around this time, although Oranje seems to have the same effects on Belgium as red has on a bull..

And enjoy The Dutch not being there. Since you continue bashing, you must have a real strong minority complex, and blaming Oranje for it. I won't do this, since I feel more Flemish than Holland. I just prefer Dutch football history, their players and their results. Today, I prefer Belgium team and their players, but I simple don't consider them favorite for the clear reasons I mentioned. Clearly, you can't grasp my arguments and that's fine. Let's wait for some results.

FYI: I never consider Oranje among the favorites. I consider them as the best and most successful outsider ever. We don't have the best players either, however great coaches, great non-choking strikers and a successful tournament mentality do the job just fine. I don't expect them to win from the big boys, but somehow they managed to have 5 decades of significant history, decorated with silverware, many occasional upset victories, amazing strikers and many amazing results. And comparing Dutch fans to Belgium fans is a joke although they made a nice comeback since 2014. If you ask me, their focus on their Oranje enemy is a bit over the top. Dutch fans don't even focus on Belgium but their focus is towards Germany. In both cases, it's the small brother challenging the big brother, in which Oranje is more successful than The Devided Devils are. Still, big brother isn't worried, even if incidents might happen.
Your very lucky to be part of this rare Belgium incident. Best case scenario, which is semi-finals, this incident finally might bring Belgium towards the level of Sweden, Turkey, Croatia, South Korea and Bulgaria; far-outsiders who managed to reach semi-finals since the 90s. Portugal is another worthy mention, being an outsider forever while having a nice track-record, they still will remain 2 levels above Belgium reputation. But all have in common that they lack recent (or even rusted) silverware while most of those upsets where rare incidents. Totally incomparable to Dutch track record of multiple flows of silverware and upsets victories every decade to reach deep in WC. So enjoy your incident while it last but it makes more sense to prepare for yet another exploding bubble. This time, the bubble might only manage to grow bigger than normal.

So yeah, feel free to blame me, blame the Dutch and deny reality. And if you really want to debate, then ask yourself why you would bring in Oranje on my insights on Belgium? Think about it and also think about it why it already happened in your first line...
I know I know, and it wasn't only my reference to the huge expectations in Belgium. You where triggered by my statement that Belgium is lacking a significant football history and for that you needed to downplay Dutch great football history. Tom Thumb is even more realistic, giving respect where deserved and taking credit if applicable.

Stop living in the past, drooling nostalgia, and look at the sad state Holland are in right now. Currently Holland are nowhere near "the best and most successful outsider ever". You don't "consider Oranje among the favorites". Pro-tip: nobody does.
"decorated with silverware...blahblah...multiple flows of silverware"? We're talking NTs. Holland have 1 (one) win dating back to 1988. The likes of Denmark and Greece have won the EUROs more recently while Portugal lifted the last one. TL;DR of Holland's WC history = the Neverlands.
If Holland can manage to get into the Kirin cup it could help a lot for when the WC will have groups of 3 teams. Besides it isn't like Holland will be competitive in the foreseeable future.
So Holland only have 1 EC win more than Belgium. That doesn't exactly make Holland our most successful neighbour. And according to Uruguay's "reasoning" (who added 2 extra stars to their crest), Belgium have won the big one too. The 1920 Olympics was the most prestigious trophy in football at the time. Back then there was no World Cup and football at the Olympics was an event for senior teams, not youth like it is now. TBH we don't give a shit about it, most Belgians don't even know about it, it's ancient crap. Again, we're too busy living in the present. If dutchies weren't so insecure they'd stop looking back all the time and have something to look forward to (besides Belgium at yet another major tournament Holland failed to reach). Holland are dinosaurs now and believe me 4-3-fucking-3 doesn't have the same ring to it as 4-4-fucking-2.

Also, give "Dutch uncle" a good google. You really shouldn't be preaching about a winning mindset. Holland aren't Germany no matter how much you admire them. Granted, it's much more fun when Holland try their best. To see you stumble in qualifying is quite enjoyable. Still it's so much better when Holland implode on the big stage, like that last meltdown (those 3 losses and group stage exit in 2012). About time we saw another one of those. Maybe one day Holland will rival our favourite brother, Luxembourg, and can keep France from scoring 4 on them. Come on Holland, if you try hard enough, you're almost as strong as Luxembourg. You shouldn't be intimidated by the Luxembourgs, Liechtensteins and Andorras of the world ... when you belief you can do well, you might one day be a good sparring partner for those guys.



Now that the dutchies have failed to qualify, again, could they please find something else to do during the World Cup? At EURO2016 Dutch journos were following the Belgian team around like a lost puppy. Back when Belgium skipped a World Cup (only because we're nice, well-mannered and wanted to give other countries a chance to win it) we didn't obsess about other teams. The care packages we sent over for EURO2016 + "Hugs for Holland" were just a bit of banter. TBH we did want to console the dutchies after Holland somehow managed to end up in the bottom half of their group alongside Kazakhstan and Latvia in the softest qualifiers ever. We should have known that giving you free stuff was a bad idea.

[Duketown]

You consider Belgium top4 favorite; I don't.

Quote me (again, you can't because I never said so). It would have been much better for the rest of your post if I did make that claim. Better luck next time.

Lyonnais is on the money to consider Belgium one of Europe’s top 4 teams. Belgium's odds back this up (behind Germany, Spain and France).

Most importantly, Wales failed to qualify. Nobody can stop us now. It's objectively only days until Belgium win the World Cup - as proven on this site. What a time to be alive!

Now you completed the final episode of making a fool of yourself again. FYI, those stupid statements where the reason for me to get dragged into this nonsense. I think we finally found a record in hands by a Belgium: Accomplishing all this within 10 posts. You're making history!!


You are not the right person to discuss success with; you personificate failure. ByeBye

[Sao]

You consider Belgium top4 favorite; I don't.

Quote me (again, you can't because I never said so). It would have been much better for the rest of your post if I did make that claim. Better luck next time.

Lyonnais is on the money to consider Belgium one of Europe’s top 4 teams. Belgium's odds back this up (behind Germany, Spain and France).

Most importantly, Wales failed to qualify. Nobody can stop us now. It's objectively only days until Belgium win the World Cup - as proven on this site. What a time to be alive!

Now you completed the final episode of making a fool of yourself again. FYI, those stupid statements where the reason for me to get dragged into this nonsense. I think we finally found a record in hands by a Belgium: Accomplishing all this within 10 posts.

No public education system can be in such utter ruins to produce people like that, no way.

"one of Europe’s", guess what kiddo the world is much bigger than just Europe.
The Wales remark and a countdown clock as "proof" = tongue planted firmly in cheek, you genius. That you even used that quote, LMAO.

Stick to Korfbal because that's the only "sport" Holland will ever dominate (it obviously isn't a sport). What Brazil are to football, Belgium are to cycling. TBH Belgium dominate cycling much much MUCH more (ALL of it and there's insane amount of it).

[JohnHarts]

Pot 1:
Russia
Brazil
Germany
Portugal
Argentina
Belgium
Poland
France

Pot 2
Spain
England
Mexico
Uruguay
Colombia
Italy (if...)
Switzerland (if...)
...

This assumes FIFA will abandon their existing and longstanding draw policy of having top seeds and then everyone else split by geographical region. But I haven't heard any news that they will?

[HibeeJibee]

http://www.fifa.com/about-fifa/news/y=2 ... 07924.html

All teams will be allocated to pots 1 to 4 based on sporting principles with each pot containing eight teams. This means that the October 2017 edition of the FIFA/Coca-Cola World Ranking will be used to allocate all qualified teams to the four pots according to their ranking in descending order, with the best seven teams along with hosts Russia in pot 1. The principle of drawing the teams into the groups will remain unchanged. Hence, no teams from the same confederation, with the exception of UEFA, which could have up to two teams in the same group, will be drawn into the same group.