CL reform for the 2018-2021 cycle

[bossake]

About the facebook likes I was very surprised when FCSB draw Lazio and I saw Lazio has only ~750.000 likes and we have 1.9 Mil.


Also about fans on the stadiums I can say here we can make a difference between ocasional fans and real fans addicted to a club. Barcelona every game have tons of tourists at their game but Dortmund for example have for sure a wayfans.

Also in some countries despite football being extremly loved people dont have the tradition of going to the stadiums, and prefers watching a game in TV.
FCSB despite having 1.9 mil Likes in the winter time hardly can attract more than 3000-5000 people to the stadium in a home game vs a small team from Romania. But Sporting - FCSB was seen by 2.3 Mil people at TV (according to media rankings).
Also in Romania we have the tendency of going only 2-3 times per year to the stadium. that is why FCSB - Botosani with FCSB home team can have a 5000 attendence but Botosani - FCSB can have a ~12.000 attendence (people coming to see FCSB playing because we play only once in a year there).

Going to the stadium is not in connection only with being a fan. It depends on transport methods (in Romania games everytime are at 20,21,21:30 local time), weather conditions, stadium conditions, ticket prices etc.

Is very hard to find a way to find a method. For example Fc Koln finished with the same average attendence last year with Fc Porto. I hardly believe Koln has similar fans (in general)with Porto.
But talking about dedicated fans the things might be reversed easily, I see a chance for Koln to have a bit more addicted fans than Porto have.

[Aliceag]

Even if we don't quite agree on FB as a reliable metric there is historical evidence for global interest and weight in Europe since CL 92 for several countries to have 3 teams in CL with sucess and large enough fanbase to justify being there despite the big 4.
France definitely has 3+ teams (PSG, Lyon, Monaco, Marseille, Lille); Russia (Zenit, Spartak, CSKA, Lokomotiv, Dynamo); Portugal (Porto, Benfica, Sporting, Braga); The Netherlands (PSV, Ajax, Feyenoord); Greece (Olympiakos, Panathinaikos, AEK, PAOK); Belgium (Anderlecht, Standard, Gent); Turkey (Besiktas, Galatasaray, Fenerbaçe), etc...

As such, the gap between 4 countries with 4 slots and then only 2 countries with 3 possible slots and all others with 2 or less slots is ridiculous. 4 countries with the possibiliy of 4 slots (1-4), 4 countries with possibility of 3 slots (5-8), 8 countries with possibility of 2 slots (9-16) would be much more balanced. This would necessarily imply more teams in QR possibly reverting to a previous situation, but not necessarily, but I think much more fair and increasing the competitiveness of the league. Making sure the relegated ones would have a GS spot in EL could settle things and everyone from 5-16 would be pleased that way. Even if 1-4 don't want to make QR, it is still possible to distribute the remaining 16 berths for all these teams. This of course would mean having more teams to go through QR but it is possible. We could have places 5-8 to have only the Champion in GS and both 2nd and 3rd place with QR; 9-12 with champion in GS and 2nd in QR, 13-16 with 2 teams in QR, and from then on 1 team in QR.
All teams from 5-16 playing in QR would go to EL GS.

So this move would make amends with medium dimension teams which were the ones most hurt with recent alterations.

[Overgame]

Ohhh Aliceag's Portugal is losing his super situation, so now she whines about how the system is unfair. When Portugal was 5th or 6th, we never heard her about how Russia or Ukraine should get 3 spots.

The top 4 has so much spots for one single reason : they have won every single CL since Porto in 2004. Every single finalist was from a top 4 country since Porto - Monaco in 2004. And with this notables exception, we need to go to 1996 to find Ajax. 20 years.

[Lorric]

With 2 to 4 so close lately, the 4 spots for all looks better than it did when this was first implemented and Italy was waaaay behind. Especially with Italy taking third, not just closing the gap. But it removes that competitive edge between the top leagues. I'd prefer to go back to the way it was before the reform.

A compromise between the two could be 1st gets 4+1, 2nd gets 4, 3rd gets 3+1, 4th gets 2+2. 5th gets 2+1, 6th gets 2+1, and the 1 has to pass two rounds. Now all 6 of the top spots matter instead of just 1-3, 4-5 and 6 before, or 1-4 and 5-6 now. It's possible for all 4 leagues to have 4 teams, and at worst you get 13 top league teams, which is more than the 11 at worst before, and it's even possible to have 17. 18 with an EL team.

You could potentially give 7th 1+2. Or just stick with 1+1 for 7th on down like now. Maybe the League Path gets 6 spots and the Champions path gets 4, and the better of the two from 7th gets the sixth spot in the final round. Then you could give 8th 1+2 as well, then everything from 1-9 would matter.

[Duketown]

The top 4 has so much spots for one single reason : they have won every single CL since Porto in 2004. Every single finalist was from a top 4 country since Porto - Monaco in 2004. And with this notables exception, we need to go to 1996 to find Ajax. 20 years.

The top 4 profited the most from Bosman ruling and leaving the Champions-only CL format. On top of that came large TV contracts and continuously favoring those top leagues in CL revenue redistribution. Besides, Mediterranean clubs accumulated crazy amounts of debts.

While those changes slowly but firmly shaped current football landscape, gap will close if UEFA decides to ditch slot exclusivity (in favor of subtop leagues) and give the market poule prize money to real winners (instead to favourite countries). Then in 10 years balance will be restored since clubs like Celtic, Ajax etc will easily outgrow Seville, Napoli and the likes since finances are a snowball: more prize money, more sponsors, better transfers, better TV deal, etc.

In the end, UEFA needs clubs like Celtic in favor of clubs like Monaco, to remain the biggest football platform (with BPL).

[Overgame]

Do you realise that the TV rights in BPL is higher than the TV rights in CL right ?
Do you realise that one UEFA needs the top 5 leagues more than the top 5 leagues needs UEFA ?
Do you realise that you are whining "wah wah my teams are not winning anymore. Unfair, let's change to give my teams a chance wah wah" ?

@Lorric : in theory, your idea sounds good. But with too much teams you must have a lot of qRounds.

[Duketown]

Do you realise that the TV rights in BPL is higher than the TV rights in CL right ?

Yes, that's why I stated that.
In reality, BPL only have a few viewers compared to CL, both on TV as combined in stadiums.
Still, BPL indeed is crazy strong and thus don't need Super League, just like Bundesliga doesn't. Being current best/most rich league, there is nothing to gain for them. And that's not even the point since TV money follows other money and fans.

Do you realise that one UEFA needs the top 5 leagues more than the top 5 leagues needs UEFA ?

There is no top 5 league; UEFA has top 4 leagues and reality only have top 3 leagues.

UEFA needs nothing since 52 member COUNTRIES benefit and only a few CLUBS (with debts or oligarch owners) are talking about Super League.
The bigger club from smaller countries (except Belgium since they don't have big clubs) already can make a comparable platform with an extra advantage of including complete European markets (which combined are much bigger than those few countries which hosts those clubs in favor of Super League).

So UEFA can either restore money and slot allocation to be more fair, UEFA only needs to shuffle some money allocation and the rest of the money will soon follow.
Other option would mean a break-out but then UEFA and the other 52 members states easily beat those combined Mediterranean leagues. Even oligarchs can't break UEFA.

So it's the other way around; do the math and you'll find out.

[Overgame]

Do you realise that one UEFA needs the top 5 leagues more than the top 5 leagues needs UEFA ?

There is no top 5 league; UEFA has top 4 leagues and reality only have top 3 leagues.

Check the TV rights from the different countries in CL.

UEFA needs nothing since 52 member COUNTRIES benefit and only a few CLUBS (with debts or oligarch owners) are talking about Super League.
The bigger club from smaller countries (except Belgium since they don't have big clubs) already can make a comparable platform with an extra advantage of including complete European markets (which combined are much bigger than those few countries which hosts those clubs in favor of Super League).

Check the Tv rights. DO OR DON'T POST.

So UEFA can either restore money and slot allocation to be more fair, UEFA only needs to shuffle some money allocation and the rest of the money will soon follow.
Other option would mean a break-out but then UEFA and the other 52 members states easily beat those combined Mediterranean leagues. Even oligarchs can't break UEFA.

So it's the other way around; do the math and you'll find out.

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[Duketown]

Do you realise that one UEFA needs the top 5 leagues more than the top 5 leagues needs UEFA ?

There is no top 5 league; UEFA has top 4 leagues and reality only have top 3 leagues.

Check the TV rights from the different countries in CL.

UEFA needs nothing since 52 member COUNTRIES benefit and only a few CLUBS (with debts or oligarch owners) are talking about Super League.
The bigger club from smaller countries (except Belgium since they don't have big clubs) already can make a comparable platform with an extra advantage of including complete European markets (which combined are much bigger than those few countries which hosts those clubs in favor of Super League).

Check the Tv rights. DO OR DON'T POST.

So UEFA can either restore money and slot allocation to be more fair, UEFA only needs to shuffle some money allocation and the rest of the money will soon follow.
Other option would mean a break-out but then UEFA and the other 52 members states easily beat those combined Mediterranean leagues. Even oligarchs can't break UEFA.

So it's the other way around; do the math and you'll find out.

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That's only part of the turnover. Check UEFA benchmark report for the rest and you'll see the gap between Top 3 leagues and France and Italy. It's
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And ignoring all the rest and start shouting doesn't help.

[Overgame]

So you didn't. Useless post as usual.

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[SirHenri]

New splitted kick-off times in CL for next season confirmed :

18:55 and 21:00 (CET)

A good thing for me, an extra live-match every evening

[AlanK]

New splitted kick-off times in CL for next season confirmed :

18:55 and 21:00 (CET)

A good thing for me, an extra live-match every evening

We retired folks are extremely about this too

[Thunder_PT]

A quick look at what this might look like next season (the qualified teams are just predictions, not necessarily who's in the position now, I'm also predicting the CL and EL winners qualify through their leagues):

CHPR
Lincoln Red Imps 2.75
Tre Penne 1.25
------------------------------
Engordany 0.266
Prishtina 0.25

CHQ1
Ludogorets 37
Celtic 31
APOEL 27
Astana 21.75
BATE 20.5
Qarabag 20.5
Sheriff 14.75
Malmo 14
Red Star 10.75
Hapoel Beer-Sheva 10
Rosenborg 9
Skenderbeu 8.5
HJK 8
The New Saints 5
Jagiellonia Bialystok 4.025
Zrinjski Mostar 3.75
Spartak Trnava 3.5
-----------------------------------
Shkendija 3.5
F91 Dudelange 3.5
Crusaders 3
Vikingur 3
Olimpija 2.9
Hibernians 2.75
Lincoln Red Imps 2.75 p
Ferencváros 2.5
Sutjeska 2.5
Alashkert 2.5
Suduva 2
Cork City 1.75
Spartaks Jūrmala 1.75
Valur 1.65
Flora Tallinn 1.25
Tre Penne 1.25 p
Torpedo Kutaisi 1

CHQ2
Ludogorets 37 *
Celtic 31 *
APOEL 27 *
Astana 21.75 *
BATE 20.5 *
Qarabag 20.5 *
Dinamo Zagreb 17.5
Sheriff 14.75 *
Malmo 14 *
Red Star 10.75 *
------------------------------
Hapoel Beer-Sheva 10 *
Rosenborg 9 *
Skenderbeu 8.5 *
HJK 8 *
Brondby 5.19
The New Saints 5 *
CFR Cluj 4.09
Jagiellonia Bialystok 4.025 *
Zrinjski Mostar 3.75 *
Spartak Trnava 3.5 *

NCQ2
Basel 69
Ajax 53.5
---------------------------
PAOK 29.5
Sturm Graz 6.120

CHQ3
Salzburg 46.5
Ludogorets 37 *
Celtic 31 *
APOEL 27 *
Astana 21.75 *
BATE 20.5 *
-------------------------------
Qarabag 20.5 *
Dinamo Zagreb 17.5 **
Sheriff 14.75 *
Malmo 14 *
Red Star 10.75 *
AEK Athens 10


NCQ3
Benfica 80
Zenit 77
Basel 69 **
Dynamo Kyiv 61
-------------------------------
Ajax 53.5 **
Anderlecht 48
Istanbul Basaksehir 8.5
Slavia Praha 7.5

CHQ4
Salzburg 46.5 ***
Ludogorets 37 *
PSV 36
Celtic 31 *
------------------------
APOEL 27 *
Astana 21.75 *
BATE 20.5 *
Young Boys 20.5


NCQ4
Benfica 80 ***
Zenit 77 ***
-----------------------
Basel 69 **
Dynamo Kyiv 61 ***

GS
Barcelona
Bayern
Manchester City
Juventus
Paris SG
Lokomotiv Moskva
FC Porto
Shakhtar
----------------------------
Real Madrid 153
Atlético Madrid 126
Dortmund 88
Manchester United 82
Benfica 80 ***
Napoli 78
Zenit 77 ***
Tottenham 67
-----------------------------
Leverkusen 66
Schalke 62
Monaco 57
Besiktas 57
Roma 56
Liverpool 54
Salzburg 46.5 ***
Ludogorets 37 *
-----------------------
Valencia 36
PSV 36
Lazio 35
Viktoria Plzen 31
Celtic 31 *
Club Brugge 29.5
Marseille 21
Spartak Moskva 13.5

[matt]

A quick look at what this might look like next season (the qualified teams are just predictions, not necessarily who's in the position now, I'm also predicting the CL and EL winners qualify through their leagues):

CHPR
Lincoln Red Imps 2.75
Tre Penne 1.25
------------------------------
Engordany 0.266
Prishtina 0.25

CHQ1
Ludogorets 37
Celtic 31
APOEL 27
Astana 21.75
BATE 20.5
Qarabag 20.5
Sheriff 14.75
Malmo 14
Red Star 10.75
Hapoel Beer-Sheva 10
Rosenborg 9
Skenderbeu 8.5
HJK 8
The New Saints 5
Jagiellonia Bialystok 4.025
Zrinjski Mostar 3.75
Spartak Trnava 3.5
-----------------------------------
Shkendija 3.5
F91 Dudelange 3.5
Crusaders 3
Vikingur 3
Olimpija 2.9
Hibernians 2.75
Lincoln Red Imps 2.75 p
Ferencváros 2.5
Sutjeska 2.5
Alashkert 2.5
Suduva 2
Cork City 1.75
Spartaks Jūrmala 1.75
Valur 1.65
Flora Tallinn 1.25
Tre Penne 1.25 p
Torpedo Kutaisi 1

CHQ2
Ludogorets 37 *
Celtic 31 *
APOEL 27 *
Astana 21.75 *
BATE 20.5 *
Qarabag 20.5 *
Dinamo Zagreb 17.5
Sheriff 14.75 *
Malmo 14 *
Red Star 10.75 *
------------------------------
Hapoel Beer-Sheva 10 *
Rosenborg 9 *
Skenderbeu 8.5 *
HJK 8 *
Brondby 5.19
The New Saints 5 *
CFR Cluj 4.09
Jagiellonia Bialystok 4.025 *
Zrinjski Mostar 3.75 *
Spartak Trnava 3.5 *

NCQ2
Basel 69
Ajax 53.5
---------------------------
PAOK 29.5
Sturm Graz 6.120

CHQ3
Salzburg 46.5
Ludogorets 37 *
Celtic 31 *
APOEL 27 *
Astana 21.75 *
BATE 20.5 *
-------------------------------
Qarabag 20.5 *
Dinamo Zagreb 17.5 **
Sheriff 14.75 *
Malmo 14 *
Red Star 10.75 *
AEK Athens 10


NCQ3
Benfica 80
Zenit 77
Basel 69 **
Dynamo Kyiv 61
-------------------------------
Ajax 53.5 **
Anderlecht 48
Istanbul Basaksehir 8.5
Slavia Praha 7.5

CHQ4
Salzburg 46.5 ***
Ludogorets 37 *
PSV 36
Celtic 31 *
------------------------
APOEL 27 *
Astana 21.75 *
BATE 20.5 *
Young Boys 20.5


NCQ4
Benfica 80 ***
Zenit 77 ***
-----------------------
Basel 69 **
Dynamo Kyiv 61 ***

GS
Barcelona
Bayern
Manchester City
Juventus
Paris SG
Lokomotiv Moskva
FC Porto
Shakhtar
----------------------------
Real Madrid 153
Atlético Madrid 126
Dortmund 88
Manchester United 82
Benfica 80 ***
Napoli 78
Zenit 77 ***
Tottenham 67
-----------------------------
Leverkusen 66
Schalke 62
Monaco 57
Besiktas 57
Roma 56
Liverpool 54
Salzburg 46.5 ***
Ludogorets 37 *
-----------------------
Valencia 36
PSV 36
Lazio 35
Viktoria Plzen 31
Celtic 31 *
Club Brugge 29.5
Marseille 21
Spartak Moskva 13.5

Here you can find the El too:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/5b06mhkvub28l ... .xlsx?dl=0

[Thunder_PT]

A quick look at what this might look like next season (the qualified teams are just predictions, not necessarily who's in the position now, I'm also predicting the CL and EL winners qualify through their leagues):

CHPR
Lincoln Red Imps 2.75
Tre Penne 1.25
------------------------------
Engordany 0.266
Prishtina 0.25

CHQ1
Ludogorets 37
Celtic 31
APOEL 27
Astana 21.75
BATE 20.5
Qarabag 20.5
Sheriff 14.75
Malmo 14
Red Star 10.75
Hapoel Beer-Sheva 10
Rosenborg 9
Skenderbeu 8.5
HJK 8
The New Saints 5
Jagiellonia Bialystok 4.025
Zrinjski Mostar 3.75
Spartak Trnava 3.5
-----------------------------------
Shkendija 3.5
F91 Dudelange 3.5
Crusaders 3
Vikingur 3
Olimpija 2.9
Hibernians 2.75
Lincoln Red Imps 2.75 p
Ferencváros 2.5
Sutjeska 2.5
Alashkert 2.5
Suduva 2
Cork City 1.75
Spartaks Jūrmala 1.75
Valur 1.65
Flora Tallinn 1.25
Tre Penne 1.25 p
Torpedo Kutaisi 1

CHQ2
Ludogorets 37 *
Celtic 31 *
APOEL 27 *
Astana 21.75 *
BATE 20.5 *
Qarabag 20.5 *
Dinamo Zagreb 17.5
Sheriff 14.75 *
Malmo 14 *
Red Star 10.75 *
------------------------------
Hapoel Beer-Sheva 10 *
Rosenborg 9 *
Skenderbeu 8.5 *
HJK 8 *
Brondby 5.19
The New Saints 5 *
CFR Cluj 4.09
Jagiellonia Bialystok 4.025 *
Zrinjski Mostar 3.75 *
Spartak Trnava 3.5 *

NCQ2
Basel 69
Ajax 53.5
---------------------------
PAOK 29.5
Sturm Graz 6.120

CHQ3
Salzburg 46.5
Ludogorets 37 *
Celtic 31 *
APOEL 27 *
Astana 21.75 *
BATE 20.5 *
-------------------------------
Qarabag 20.5 *
Dinamo Zagreb 17.5 **
Sheriff 14.75 *
Malmo 14 *
Red Star 10.75 *
AEK Athens 10


NCQ3
Benfica 80
Zenit 77
Basel 69 **
Dynamo Kyiv 61
-------------------------------
Ajax 53.5 **
Anderlecht 48
Istanbul Basaksehir 8.5
Slavia Praha 7.5

CHQ4
Salzburg 46.5 ***
Ludogorets 37 *
PSV 36
Celtic 31 *
------------------------
APOEL 27 *
Astana 21.75 *
BATE 20.5 *
Young Boys 20.5


NCQ4
Benfica 80 ***
Zenit 77 ***
-----------------------
Basel 69 **
Dynamo Kyiv 61 ***

GS
Barcelona
Bayern
Manchester City
Juventus
Paris SG
Lokomotiv Moskva
FC Porto
Shakhtar
----------------------------
Real Madrid 153
Atlético Madrid 126
Dortmund 88
Manchester United 82
Benfica 80 ***
Napoli 78
Zenit 77 ***
Tottenham 67
-----------------------------
Leverkusen 66
Schalke 62
Monaco 57
Besiktas 57
Roma 56
Liverpool 54
Salzburg 46.5 ***
Ludogorets 37 *
-----------------------
Valencia 36
PSV 36
Lazio 35
Viktoria Plzen 31
Celtic 31 *
Club Brugge 29.5
Marseille 21
Spartak Moskva 13.5

Here you can find the El too:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/5b06mhkvub28l ... .xlsx?dl=0

Thanks! I still don't believe the likes of Eintracht Frankfurt will hold on to their positions, but it would have saved me a lot of time.