War in Ukraine

[Club-Mate]

I still dont know what Putin things he will do if he succeed militarily. LIke install puppet goverment and change Ukraine to soviet times ? It si really big country he cannot maintain regime like that if 80%+ people will hate him. This mission is doomed from start.

Russia cannot control such a big country like Ukraine for long especially if that war turns into a guerilla war they then will face one more Afghanistan desaster. But Putin does know that so he makes offers to Ukrainian armee to step in against their own government The sanctions confirmed today by EU and US are very hard and will severely hurt Russian economy and his people. Thousands of demonstrators against Putin are on the streets even in 12 Russian cities

[Metallica1989]

today Russia has brought in all its reserves that were deployed on the border, all 90 battalion tactical groups

many invaders destroyed, thousands, I am proud of the Ukrainian army

[Vidibreovo]

https://twitter.com/nexta_tv/status/1497263343945535496 Surprise, surprise Serbia will not join sanctions against Russia. But I repeat for Serbian members hopefully not all of them are nationalist bigots -- if your governmemt is supporting Putin that means you are against not only Ukrainian people but also Russian people. And everyone will remember this!

It is really funny what are you writing, and in every your post it is shown that you just dont know what are you talking about. Just type some letters...

[Englandmad2007]

Ukraine is a peaceful democratic country, Iraq and Libya were dictatorships with Saddam and Gaddafi commiting numerous atrocities both inside and outside their countries. Only a bigot like you can't see a difference.

Now now children!

Oh you are so definitely Soccerkid.

strong squad? ha ha in your dreams with lingard,maguire and phil jones they is no chances that United will win the europa league with deadwood squad playing

now now children

Come on Bert. Drop the hammer.

Time to cut this out please.

If you believe i'm a troll then don't liase with me, it's a free country we can think and do what we want (as long as we don't violate the law). But spreading inaccurate routers about me and trying to impose your views upon someone else is slander, a very serious criminal offence, one which can land you a prison sentence. So i'd appreciate it if you stop making slanderous remarks. Thanks

[Vidibreovo]

European countries have failed in many ways in not being independent and being a third power besides US AND Russia for the continent's safety ; the two big powers play cards without them like during Cold War (We need to stop to lie to themselves, NATO=US, nothing else). And Europe will be paying consequences with US eating popcorn overseas and Putin's Russia doing their stupid things.

And don't give me the democracy BS vibe either, I'm tired of this naivety.

(When I listened to the insane Putin speech, I heard so many ridiculous arguments used by the West for their military operations, I would have laughed if the situation was not so dire).

[Firnen]

It's pretty simple.

West = money, financial prosperity. Everyone wants to come to the West, that's why after 1991 almost all the Eastern Europe countries came running.

Ukraine has the right to want to become part of the West too.

Russia has no given right to a sphere of influence or imposing their own way of life/economy/form of government to other nations. Only if they choose to align with them with free, democratic elections - yes, this is the only acceptable system.

Whoever claims otherwise is simply blinded by anti-American hate. Luring countries with money is fair game. Invading them because they don't want to be in your sphere of influence/alliance is NOT.

[EarlofBug]

It's pretty simple.

West = money, financial prosperity. Everyone wants to come to the West, that's why after 1991 almost all the Eastern Europe countries came running.

Ukraine has the right to want to become part of the West too.

Russia has no given right to a sphere of influence or imposing their own way of life/economy/form of government to other nations. Only if they choose to align with them with free, democratic elections - yes, this is the only acceptable system.

Whoever claims otherwise is simply blinded by anti-American hate. Luring countries with money is fair game. Invading them because they don't want to be in your sphere of influence/alliance is NOT.

[emortal]

Comparing Russia's current aggression against Ukraine with the NATO campaign against Serbia is meaningless and completely inappropriate.

To the contrary.

Historical context:

Ukraine has done absolutely no harm to Russia. No steps have been taken to jeopardize Russia's security at all (for example, an agreement on the deployment of NATO weapons on Ukrainian territory has never been reached, nor have negotiations on Ukraine's accession to NATO begun). Neither has EU integration (hence not accession to NATO but the EU) begun.

Serbia has done absolutely no harm to US, UK, France and Germany.
No steps were taken to jeopardize their security at all.
Serbia didn't threaten them or any of their citizens.

On the other hand, the Russians have a fairly long history of doing evil to Ukrainians. The Communist Party of the Soviet Union committed a planned genocide against the Ukrainian people through starvation. Several million Ukrainians died of starvation. Ukraine today would have 60 million people, instead of 40, if it were not for that period, 1932-1933. The planners of this genocide were from Moscow. Someone will say - but Stalin was Georgian. Yes, but everyone around him was Russian.

On the other hand Germans, Italians and even Albanians have a fairly long history of doing evil to Serbs.

In 1914 Austria-Hungary and Germany attacked Serbia and completely occupied it (starting WWI in the process).

In 1940 Germany, Italy and Romania along with their Croatian and Albanian puppets occupied Serbia again committing countless atrocities against the population.

Your drivel and historical inaccuracies about the CCCP famine aside.

Well, unlike Ukraine, Serbia did have some blood on their hands.

At the end of the 1980s, Serbian politics completely took over the politics and army of the former Yugoslavia. The Yugoslav People's Army, led by Serbs, committed aggression against its own citizens in Slovenia and Croatia. Then the war moved to Bosnia and Herzegovina. Serbian forces held Sarajevo (Bosnian capital) under siege for 4 years. About 12,000 people were killed in Sarajevo alone. The end of the war in BiH marked the genocide in Srebrenica, committed by Serb forces. More than 8,000 people were killed in 3 days. The entire population of one city was wiped off the face of the earth.

Oh, another armchair historian spoon-fed with propaganda.

Well you must be too young so hear the other side from someone who lived through those events in a neighbouring country.

1. Secession of Slovenia and Croatia was instigated (one could say 'bought') by Germany
2. Legalities on whether the constituent republics had the right to secede are irrelevant.
   No country will accept its dissolution like that.
   Even the US exist today because the northern states did not accept the creation of the CSA.
3. The Yugoslav army tried to perform its mission.
   I.e. maintain the country's territorial integrity.
4. Slovenia seceded in a matter of days w/o significant casualties.
5. The Bosniak (muslim Bosnian) president back then was a complete fanatic who during WW2 collaborated with the Nazi occupiers (!!!)
6. And in his manifesto he designated Pakistan and even cited Iran as a model country for Bosnia (!)
7. No wonder the Christians (you conveniently left out that the Croats also fought against the Bosniaks in Bosnia) decided that since Bosnia-Herzegovina seceded from Yugoslavia they would in the same way secede from Bosnia-Herzegovina

The Serb war against the rest of the former Yugoslavia continued in Kosovo.

No it didn't.

I'm tired so you can just google "Dayton agreement" to be informed.

Tens, if not hundreds, of thousands of Kosovo Albanians were expelled from their homes in 1998/99. Many were killed.

Complete and utter lie.

Not a single civilian was expelled (much less killed) and the Yugoslav army was fighting the Albanian mafia there posing as an independence movement.

At this point, in the spring of 1999, after a decade of war crimes, genocides, atrocities by Serbian President Slobodan Milosevic, the Western world and NATO decided to deal with the criminal regime. Realistically, the NATO operation could have happened in 1991 and 1995. It should have happened then. Unfortunately not until 1999.

And the lies continue.

I already explained in another comment why and how the US bombed Yugoslavia for 100 days.

Just use the search terms "Camp Bondsteel", "Albright", "Monica Lewinski", "UCK".

The target of the NATO attack on Serbia was mostly infrastructure facilities. Bridges, oil refineries, military training grounds, airports, television. Of course, one should be honest and point out that NATO did not stick to such a plan until the end. Civilian buildings were also hit, and innocent civilians were killed. The Chinese embassy in Belgrade was also hit. Personally, I have complete empathy for the Serbs who died in the NATO bombing. They are the same victims as Bosnians or Albanians. Victims of NATO, but also of its own regime.

What is certain is that the Russians, unlike the Americans, do not choose their goals. They are killing and destroying everything Ukrainian under the accusation of denazifying Ukraine.

That statement is extremely ignorant.
In 2 days there are 200 Ukrainian casualties reported.
That's nothing. Russians are doing a walk in the park.

And unlike some cowardly bastards, who bomb from the air with impunity, they do so putting their lives at risk.

I wonder if Ukrainians are even fighting or it's complete incompetence on their part.

Since it is obvious you've never served, if you want to see what total war looks like (i.e. "killing and destroying everything") take a look at what happened in Syria (from all sides). Or in some African wars.

[Phocea]

Invading them because they don't want to be in your sphere of influence/alliance is NOT.

It reminds me of some countries (mine included). Weird.

(And it isn't excusing Russia's insane stupidity. I just put in evidence the general hypocrisy).

[Firnen]

Invading them because they don't want to be in your sphere of influence/alliance is NOT.

It reminds me of some countries (mine included). Weird.

(And it isn't excusing Russia's insane stupidity. I just put in evidence the general hypocrisy).

If you mean Iraq, I don't think anyone will argue that this invasion shouldn't have happened (without pretending we don't see that Saddam was a dictaror who was gassing his own people whenever they disagreed too much for his taste).
If you mean the former Yugoslavia, there was ethnic cleansing happening in Bosnia. When Yugoslavia broke up, no, the Serbs had no right to keep Bosnia for themselves and commit genocide in the process. Many of the Serbian leaders of the era got convicted by the International Criminal Court for war crimes.

[emortal]

Luring countries with money is fair game. Invading them because they don't want to be in your sphere of influence/alliance is NOT.

How about using the secret service to instigate a coup and overthrow the elected president/government?

Is that fair game?

Only if they choose to align with them with free, democratic elections - yes, this is the only acceptable system.

Instead of explaining why that's complete b@ll@cks I'll just link this enlightening video of a professor's lecture.

I guess he must be un- or anti-American ...

UnCommon Core: The Causes and Consequences of the Ukraine Crisis

John J. Mearsheimer, the R. Wendell Harrison Distinguished Service Professor in Political Science and Co-director of the Program on International Security Policy at the University of Chicago

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JrMiSQAGOS4

And this one at Yale.

“The False Promise of Liberal Hegemony”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ESwIVY2oimI

[Phocea]

Invading them because they don't want to be in your sphere of influence/alliance is NOT.

It reminds me of some countries (mine included). Weird.

(And it isn't excusing Russia's insane stupidity. I just put in evidence the general hypocrisy).

If you mean Iraq, I don't think anyone will argue that this invasion shouldn't have happened (without pretending we don't see that Saddam was a dictaror who was gassing his own people whenever they disagreed too much for his taste).

Yep I didn't think about ex-Yugoslavia there. Iraq (they didn't give a f*k about Saddam atrocities or the legendary 'bringing democracy'), Africa and South America coup d'état orchestrated from behind because the power in place is not Western friendly etc, the race to pipelines in Syria...

[anty1975]

Serbs here like Putin live in alternative reality with their own sources of information

[rpo.castro]

It is not story about democracy is it good or not, it is about double standards. Let *kosovo andd former Yugoslavia on a side, what about Iraq and Libya? What about Saudi in Yemen?

What somaliland?
What myanmar?
What central african republica?
What mozambique?
What the guy that slept with someone's wife?

Why are you speaking about other things? So just because Cain killed Abel, Putin can invade Russia?

Who invaid Somalia or Myanmar?

And you know who send troops and bombs to Iraq and Libya? And whay? Why you didnt ask in that cases to Uefa ban England or Fifa Us, why you didnt say at this cases they are crazy and agressors?

Did i said in any my post that Russia has right to invaide Ukraine!?!?

Tipicaly some words you dont want to hear

Its Ukraine not Serbia ok?
I don't talk about serbia because serbia has nothing to due with this. But if we were talking about who commited genocide and crime wars and ethnic cleansing yes we could speak about serbia and milosevich

[rpo.castro]

I was wrong about lithuania or latvia being next.
Finland and sweden, you have been warned. Take your knee