New Champions League at 2024 and on

[bert.kassies]

One thing I also don't find that elegant is that there would be 3 or most likely 4 Byes in the ECL ChP but I don't know how they could avoid that.

11-14 CL PO
15-22 CL Q2
23-55 CL Q1 (except Liechtenstein)

It avoids byes in ECL ChP, and aligns with dnina's articles.

Yes, I agree. With 32 clubs in CL-Q1 the combinations in other parts of the access list are much better.

[OlliWender]

But there probably won't be 32 teams in CLQ1, if ,according to dpnina, the top 23/25 are important. I think this most likely means 24 and 25 move on if the title holder is already qualified.
Also: 32 teams in CLQ1 would still mean only 16 losers in ECLQ2 ChP, thus 8 winners who move to Q3, if we don't allocate byes. Where do the other 2 teams we need to make up 5 matches come from?

[nogomet]

One thing I also don't find that elegant is that there would be 3 or most likely 4 Byes in the ECL ChP but I don't know how they could avoid that.

11-14 CL PO
15-22 CL Q2
23-55 CL Q1 (except Liechtenstein)

It avoids byes in ECL ChP, and aligns with dnina's articles.

That would be a weird allocation. Not a single club starting in CL-Q3, with one place making a difference between having a team start in CL-PO (thus guaranteed EL-GS) and having a team start in CL-Q2 without a guarantee of any group stage football.

[bert.kassies]

Also: 32 teams in CLQ1 would still mean only 16 losers in ECLQ2 ChP, thus 8 winners who move to Q3, if we don't allocate byes. Where do the other 2 teams we need to make up 5 matches come from?

16+8 teams in CL-Q2 will lead to 12 teams in EL-Q3ch, and thus 6 teams in ECL-POch.

[OlliWender]

Ok, I was under the impression that Uefa would try to change as little as possible, thus keep it at 5/10 matches for that route.

[bert.kassies]

Ok, I was under the impression that Uefa would try to change as little as possible, thus keep it at 5/10 matches for that route.

Now I don't understand you

With 6 clubs from EL-Q3ch and 4 clubs from ECL-Q3ch there will be 10 clubs in ECL-POch.

[OlliWender]

You're right. Wasn't really thinking through that case.
I'm still thinking about the fact that we most likely won't have exactly 32 teams in CLQ1 anyway with CL title holder lowering the benchmark to 24th.
We don't really know if the prelim round will stay too. The question for me still is: If this prelim round was a gift to the bottom associations and an easier opportunity to gain a few points, what would be the reason to abolish it now?

[Firnen]

Maybe it's been mentioned before....the 2 positions in CL Groups for the season's top performers (it would be England and Netherlands) are extra positions in Europe or they are deducted from the EL/ECL? Would England have 8 teams in Europe and Netherlands 6 with this system?

[GuyFromCroatia]

Maybe it's been mentioned before....the 2 positions in CL Groups for the season's top performers (it would be England and Netherlands) are extra positions in Europe or they are deducted from the EL/ECL? Would England have 8 teams in Europe and Netherlands 6 with this system?

Yes, it's an extra place. For example, if this was applied for this season, Netherlands would have Ajax and PSV in CL GS, Feyenoord would start in CL Q3 instead of PSV, Twente would be in EL GS, and AZ and Vitesse would be in ECL Q3 and ECL Q2.

[Firnen]

Maybe it's been mentioned before....the 2 positions in CL Groups for the season's top performers (it would be England and Netherlands) are extra positions in Europe or they are deducted from the EL/ECL? Would England have 8 teams in Europe and Netherlands 6 with this system?

Yes, it's an extra place. For example, if this was applied for this season, Netherlands would have Ajax and PSV in CL GS, Feyenoord would start in CL Q3 instead of PSV, Twente would be in EL GS, and AZ and Vitesse would be in ECL Q3 and ECL Q2.

So if this place went to e.g. Germany, they would have 9 teams in Europe (since Eintracht became an extra by winning the EL without qualifying for Europe in the Bundesliga) ?

[dnina10]

Maybe it's been mentioned before....the 2 positions in CL Groups for the season's top performers (it would be England and Netherlands) are extra positions in Europe or they are deducted from the EL/ECL? Would England have 8 teams in Europe and Netherlands 6 with this system?

Yes, it's an extra place. For example, if this was applied for this season, Netherlands would have Ajax and PSV in CL GS, Feyenoord would start in CL Q3 instead of PSV, Twente would be in EL GS, and AZ and Vitesse would be in ECL Q3 and ECL Q2.

So if this place went to e.g. Germany, they would have 9 teams in Europe (since Eintracht became an extra by winning the EL without qualifying for Europe in the Bundesliga) ?

That's correct

[SteffenM]

But wouldn't this cause a problem, if for example, the 6th place or lower in England won the El?

Which of the teams would would miss their place?

I was thinking about this as well. I suspect it'd be treated similarly to if the CL and EL winner from a top 4 league were to miss out on CL via domestic league, which in that scenario the 4th place team in the league enters EL instead. That's my thinking

Haha, yes this is a mess. You can't deny the title holder. You can't say to a country that just got 5 places based on performance in the last season: "Sorry but 4 is the maximum". Let alone sending the 4-th placed team to EL in order to get the 5-th place team in CL.

So about maximum spots.
Let's take a scenario. England does well in the previous season, and also win CL, EL and ECL, for non-top 7 teams.

So England would have the normal 4 CL + 2 EL + 1 ECL spot = 7
And extra CL (wild card) = 1 CL
3 extra TH spots. 2 CL + 1 EL = 3

In total England would have "won" 11 spots (7 CL, 3 EL, 1 ECL)

Max CL for 5 spots, any max in total?

I guess a max for CL would apply at 5. So it would be top 3 and the CL and EL - TH, who would get this?

ECL TH would of course go to EL with the 4th best placed team?
then there is 4 more. One in EL, one in ECL, and 2 dissapointed clubs?

[bert.kassies]

This maximum may change in 2024. I've heard there are discussions about a new way of rebalancing. An open spot in the EL/ECL access list (e.g. by taking CL-TH or EL-TH spot in CL-GS) would be filled by another club of the same country, but without leapfrogging. All clubs of that country would shift to the next higher spot, and the last ECL spot would be taken by an additional club. E.g. if the country were Spain they would still have 2 clubs in EL-GS and 1 club in ECL-PO, despite having an extra club in CL. This needs to be confirmed by UEFA, of course.

But suppose it's true, what do you think of such a proposal?

[OlliWender]

This maximum may change in 2024. I've heard there are discussions about a new way of rebalancing. An open spot in the EL/ECL access list (e.g. by taking CL-TH or EL-TH spot in CL-GS) would be filled by another club of the same country, but without leapfrogging. All clubs of that country would shift to the next higher spot, and the last ECL spot would be taken by an additional club. E.g. if the country were Spain they would still have 2 clubs in EL-GS and 1 club in ECL-PO, despite having an extra club in CL. This needs to be confirmed by UEFA, of course.

But suppose it's true, what do you think of such a proposal?

From everything we heard it's safe to assume there will be no more maximum number of teams in CL.

But the rebalancing would only happen for a club that hasn't already qualified for the CL, like now, right? City winning the League and CL title still wouldn't move them up from the 4 country spots into the TH spot and open up a 5th spot for them, right?

[bert.kassies]

But the rebalancing would only happen for a club that hasn't already qualified for the CL, like now, right? City winning the League and CL title still wouldn't move them up from the 4 country spots into the TH spot and open up a 5th spot for them, right?

That's my understanding indeed. The aim is to preserve the quality of EL and ECL.