Battle for important ranking positions 2023-24

including formats, draws, seedings, etc.
matt
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Post by matt »

babaluj1 wrote: Sun Jan 07, 2024 22:52
matt wrote: Sun Jan 07, 2024 22:11
babaluj1 wrote: Sun Jan 07, 2024 20:14
ake a look at this year's access list:

1st-5th places ENG, ESP, GER, ITA, FRA play with a total of 6-8 clubs, of which 5-7 directly place in GS and only 5 qualifying PO
16.-20. places CZE, NOR, DEN, CRO, TUR play with a total of 4 clubs without direct places in GS
46th-50th places MLT, GEO, MAC, LIE, WAL play with a total of 4 clubs without direct places in GS

It can be seen that between the 16th and 50th place there is no difference in the number of clubs, nor is there a significant difference in the start in CL or ECL, they all start mostly in the first and second rounds of qualifications. You will agree that between the start of the Top 5 league clubs and the 16th to 20th clubs, it is huge diferent, as is the number of clubs.
On the other hand, Czech, Norwegian, Danish, Croatian, Turkish clubs often take points and even eliminate the Top 5 clubs, because the difference in quality is not that big, while for the clubs of Malta, Georgia, Macedonia, Wales... it is an almost impossible mission against clubs from the Top 16-20 leagues, it happens once in ten years, because the difference in quality is very big.
What does that tell us? When you give huge privileges to some groups, you are definitely discriminating against other groups. :D
A question: would you take away spots from weak leagues and give them to the 16-30 leagues or just take away spots from weaker countries?
Of the mass of privileges that UEFA has been handing out for years, I would primarily abolish the worst and most corrupt one, which is undeniably the special path of the champion. This is the worst possible privilege, which hardly discriminates against all the other non-champion clubs of those leagues. Because of this privilege, all three UEFA leagues are significantly weaker than they would be if the really strongest clubs entered. But the mass of national leagues is also destroyed by this privilege, because almost all UEFA money ends up in the hands of the champion, who then easily dominates years with the help of UEFA money, when his budget is twice, three times that of most of his competitors.
The second worst privilege is direct places in the UEFA leagues, I would put all the clubs in joint qualifications with the Swiss system and then form the CL from the 36 strongest. No gifts, earn a place on the field! :nono:
I would take places from the weakest leagues below the 30th place, thus reducing the number of matches in the preliminary rounds of the qualifications, but the main qualifications would be played by the 110 strongest clubs using the Swiss system in 4 rounds.
Realistically, the 3 strongest clubs are enough for leagues below 30th place, or 2 strongest clubs for leagues below 40th place. :dontknow:
Understood :up:
It makes some sense but i hope it will never happen because i love the drama of knock-out summer qualifiers and your idea (swiss system) would greatly reduce it.
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babaluj1
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Post by babaluj1 »

I hope that this year 2024 will be the last year of the UEFA monopoly, and that the European Super League will really start in 2025 in the format they announced. It would be even better if a Central European or Eastern European league was founded, then the earnings of the clubs of small countries would be much better than under the UEFA monopoly, after all, UEFA is under French control, hence all those privileges for the Top 5 big ones! :dontknow:
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bjkman1903
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Post by bjkman1903 »

babaluj1 wrote: Sun Jan 07, 2024 22:12 Soon we will be watching the CL with 24/36 clubs of the Top 5 leagues. Can you imagine a CL with 36/36 clubs from Top5 leagues? :D Let's say 10 English clubs, they are the richest (American and Arab capital), then 7 Italian, Spanish and German clubs inside, and you add 5 French strongest clubs. :clapping: This is the strongest possible CL with 36/36 superclubs! Fantastically! Can you imagine such a spectacle? I can and I'm looking forward to it, but under one condition, and that is that everyone passes the qualifications! :D
And what we have now are privileges and fraud, all caused by corruption. Half of those CL teams would not have qualified. :dontknow:
Totally agree with this.
I don't have a problem with - let's say 10 English clubs - in CLGS as long as they win on the pitch through qualifying rounds.

What I find annoying is that UEFA (and many people) say that top 4 (5) leagues are much stronger than the rest, so they deserve a direct spot. Some people even think that it benefits weaker league teams because they are protected from a bad draw, and top 4 league teams would surely qualify anyway.

I personally don't believe that teams like Lazio, Napoli, Union Berlin, Sevilla, Manchester United from this season were a lot stronger than Sparta Prague, Galatasaray, Copenhagen, Braga, Rangers nor PSV.

With the current system, Italian, Spanish, English and German teams are guaranteed 6 matches, a lot of money (I don't even include bonus money based on coefficient points..Nor talk about country part in the coefficient points, which for me should have been 0) and thus will always stay on top.

Maybe if European Super League really happens, UEFA will finally care about fair-play instead of money and big clubs only and we will have a better competition.
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babaluj1
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Post by babaluj1 »

bjkman1903 wrote: Mon Jan 08, 2024 11:25
babaluj1 wrote: Sun Jan 07, 2024 22:12 Soon we will be watching the CL with 24/36 clubs of the Top 5 leagues. Can you imagine a CL with 36/36 clubs from Top5 leagues? :D Let's say 10 English clubs, they are the richest (American and Arab capital), then 7 Italian, Spanish and German clubs inside, and you add 5 French strongest clubs. :clapping: This is the strongest possible CL with 36/36 superclubs! Fantastically! Can you imagine such a spectacle? I can and I'm looking forward to it, but under one condition, and that is that everyone passes the qualifications! :D
And what we have now are privileges and fraud, all caused by corruption. Half of those CL teams would not have qualified. :dontknow:
Totally agree with this.
I don't have a problem with - let's say 10 English clubs - in CLGS as long as they win on the pitch through qualifying rounds.

What I find annoying is that UEFA (and many people) say that top 4 (5) leagues are much stronger than the rest, so they deserve a direct spot. Some people even think that it benefits weaker league teams because they are protected from a bad draw, and top 4 league teams would surely qualify anyway.

I personally don't believe that teams like Lazio, Napoli, Union Berlin, Sevilla, Manchester United from this season were a lot stronger than Sparta Prague, Galatasaray, Copenhagen, Braga, Rangers nor PSV.

With the current system, Italian, Spanish, English and German teams are guaranteed 6 matches, a lot of money (I don't even include bonus money based on coefficient points..Nor talk about country part in the coefficient points, which for me should have been 0) and thus will always stay on top.

Maybe if European Super League really happens, UEFA will finally care about fair-play instead of money and big clubs only and we will have a better competition.
What are the chances of the Netherlands, Portugal, Belgium, Turkey, in the future Poland or Russia to enter the Top 5 countries according to the Country ranking and enjoy the privileges that UEFA gave to the selected ones, and take half a billion euros from UEFA annually? None! :D :D :D
Why? Because those 5 big leagues are protected by UEFA with direct places in the CL, they pump billions of euros into those leagues, and the qualification system is such that those big leagues play only one match PO ECL, while other countries play a minimum of 5 knockout matches each with a minimum of 2 clubs , therefore, thay can rarely play full 5/5 or 6/6 GS.
With such a closed system, we can only expect further stagnation of Dutch and Portuguese clubs and further strengthening of the Top 5 major leagues, which have become untouchable for other leagues. :dontknow:
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Post by ultra2013 »

Maybe the only good thing about Superleague is that technically there is no reason for associations to not pursue minisuperleagues like Benelux league, Balkan league, ex-URSS league, Iberian league, British league (without England), etc.
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Post by babaluj1 »

ultra2013 wrote: Mon Jan 08, 2024 16:18 Maybe the only good thing about Superleague is that technically there is no reason for associations to not pursue minisuperleagues like Benelux league, Balkan league, ex-URSS league, Iberian league, British league (without England), etc.
The good thing is the judgment of the European court that FIFA and UEFA do not have the right to ban clubs and their players if they play in other leagues. This means freedom for clubs and players, nobody has the right to blackmail and ban clubs and players. After all, most of these clubs are older than FIFA and UEFA.
Whether the European Super League is a serious project, that is, whether it will start next year and whether it can succeed as they announced, we will see. In any case, football has become a big business and Europe will definitely get new football organizations in the near future. This is certainly good for the clubs, but also for the football players who will earn more. For me as a football fan, the higher the earnings of domestic clubs and the more international matches, the better. Whether a club will play in the UEFA leagues, in the European Super League or in another league, it is up to them to decide what is better for them. :dontknow:
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bjkman1903
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Post by bjkman1903 »

ultra2013 wrote: Mon Jan 08, 2024 16:18 Maybe the only good thing about Superleague is that technically there is no reason for associations to not pursue minisuperleagues like Benelux league, Balkan league, ex-URSS league, Iberian league, British league (without England), etc.
I would personally love this - a regional league (Balkan) including Turkey and Greece.
Competitive games, drama, etc.
Or another European competition without Superclubs in which many different teams could win it (Feyenoord, Club Brugge, Slavia Prague, Rangers, etc.).

Once we get rid of all those big teams and UEFA which only care about the money in their pockets, it will be a great day for Football (as Sport)

Of course, some people will prefer to watch for example Real Madrid vs Bayern play each other forever, and I respect that. That's why I don't mind the Superleague.
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matt
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Post by matt »

bjkman1903 wrote: Mon Jan 08, 2024 19:36 Or another European competition without Superclubs in which many different teams could win it (Feyenoord, Club Brugge, Slavia Prague, Rangers, etc.).
So basically a Conference League without top 5 clubs at all.
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babaluj1
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Post by babaluj1 »

bjkman1903 wrote: Mon Jan 08, 2024 19:36
ultra2013 wrote: Mon Jan 08, 2024 16:18 Maybe the only good thing about Superleague is that technically there is no reason for associations to not pursue minisuperleagues like Benelux league, Balkan league, ex-URSS league, Iberian league, British league (without England), etc.
I would personally love this - a regional league (Balkan) including Turkey and Greece.
Competitive games, drama, etc.
Or another European competition without Superclubs in which many different teams could win it (Feyenoord, Club Brugge, Slavia Prague, Rangers, etc.).

Once we get rid of all those big teams and UEFA which only care about the money in their pockets, it will be a great day for Football (as Sport)

Of course, some people will prefer to watch for example Real Madrid vs Bayern play each other forever, and I respect that. That's why I don't mind the Superleague.
There will be 3 strong leagues in the European Super League, the Star Super League of 16 clubs, where all the strongest clubs from Real Madrid, Barcelona, Juventus and beyond will be. Of the other clubs outside the Top 5 leagues, some Portuguese and Dutch clubs can possibly enter there due to their quality, the rest maybe sometimes.
But that's why the Gold League of 16 clubs, which is a step below, will be very interesting and balanced, there will probably be a couple of weaker clubs from the Top 5 leagues, and the majority will be the strongest clubs from other leagues
The third and weakest Superliga will be the Blue League with 32 clubs, which will also be very even, and as many as 20 clubs will drop out of it every year, but 20 new clubs will also enter. There will be a large circulation of quality clubs from the Top 30 leagues, at least I think so. :D
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bjkman1903
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Post by bjkman1903 »

matt wrote: Mon Jan 08, 2024 20:55
bjkman1903 wrote: Mon Jan 08, 2024 19:36 Or another European competition without Superclubs in which many different teams could win it (Feyenoord, Club Brugge, Slavia Prague, Rangers, etc.).
So basically a Conference League without top 5 clubs at all.
Would rather say Champions League without Super Clubs (similar to EL level)

Only a handful of Top 5 teams are above everyone else (Man City, Bayern, Real Madrid, Liverpool, PSG ..)

The remaining teams in Italy, Spain, etc are more than welcomed if 2 main European cups are run at the same time like in Basketball.
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Lubomir25
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Post by Lubomir25 »

matt wrote: Mon Jan 08, 2024 20:55
bjkman1903 wrote: Mon Jan 08, 2024 19:36 Or another European competition without Superclubs in which many different teams could win it (Feyenoord, Club Brugge, Slavia Prague, Rangers, etc.).
So basically a Conference League without top 5 clubs at all.
How can you call that a conference league lol those clubs are regular in the CL or Europa league and with the same finances as the top 5 leagues could easily rival Real or Bayern etc
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seso
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Post by seso »

I think we're getting closer and closer to not having Spain in the top two positions in UEFA Country Ranking 2025 (for the first time since UEFA Country Ranking 1998).
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nogomet
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Post by nogomet »

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Lyonnais
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Post by Lyonnais »

Thanks nogomet :up:
seso wrote: Fri Feb 16, 2024 07:47 I think we're getting closer and closer to not having Spain in the top two positions in UEFA Country Ranking 2025 (for the first time since UEFA Country Ranking 1998).
The possible unexpected loss of Betis will definitely not help Spain but there are still two undecided Italo-Sanish clashes in the Champions League. So should the two Spanish clubs go through it could have an impact.
Don't forget to post your predictions for the new season
viewtopic.php?p=563580#p563580
eye
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Post by eye »

The expected coefficients after this week's results

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Based on the above table the battle for the 2 additional CL spots is a race for 3 countries. Spain not only has slim chances to get one of these 2 spots but it seems likely to loose the 2nd place of 5 year ranking since if countries manage to get the expected coefficients Italy will be less than 0.100 below Spain and Germany about 1.300 below Spain.
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