Italian football season 2016-17

Domestic league and cup football
Todor
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Post by Todor »

max tre wrote:
Todor wrote:What did exactly he say?
Well, I'm not gonna transcribe them, but he matched "God" with a couple of animal names.
Those ones are the most common blasphemies, and they should be punished according to our penal code - that's only in theory. In practice, they are kinda tolerated in informal contexts, but don't say them at work or similar. Provided that I don't use them and it's in any case a bad attitude, I also know there're people who just grew up surrounded by them and they really need to control themselves to avoid a blasphemy in the momentum something unexpected/undesired happens. When it's a kid who wants to look "older" or when they are obviously faked/exaggerated just because, here you have what I consider a very bad thing - they can easily abstain from doing it.
I guess the problem here was that the camera caught him (yes nemesys, the rule is still the same) and that he had even more bad luck (since, as I said, the rule is obviously not always applied).
The problem about Correnti is that I could imagine a yellow cart for offences (mmh), not a free kick.
Grazie and nemesys as well! I'm very much surprised that blasphemy is still punished by law anywhere in Europe.
Strange punishment nevertheless as his foul language wasn't directed at anyone. He fell victim to the political correctness, as probably there were a number of outraged viewers complaining.
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max tre
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Post by max tre »

nemesys wrote:
max tre wrote:The problem about Correnti is that I could imagine a yellow cart for offences (mmh), not a free kick.
Who/what is "Correnti"? :confused:
Just check my previous post, there's a hyperlink too. :D
bjkman1903 wrote:I have a question to our Italian friends.

Why Inter and Milan are doing so poor, year by year ? Is there a particular reason or is it the result of bad management ?
As these clubs have been sold to Chinese groups, many people including myself expected them to rise again. But even if Serie A gets 4 CL spots it doesn't look like either Inter or Milan will get one of those.

They may be historically important european teams but nowadays no one is scared of them anymore. Inter losing at home to Israeli champions yesterday.. it feels like their CL title a few years ago was just a dream. :roll:
Who knows... Maybe a couple of bad season + butterfly effect are enough...
What's for sure is that Serie A is not anymore the 10-years-ago one, it's levelling down with Juventus as the sole exception (a big surprise at the beginning of their cycle, because, 'tween Calciopoli and their somehow "lucky" 2012 Scudetto,they happened to be in the Milaneses's current situation.
I can tell you our (Inter) transfer market never looked bad to such an extent that we could miss Europe twice in three seasons - with 3 CL spots failing the "big ears" qualification was understanble, but wtf. :cry:

@AlanK: "Curse culture" by Tia Taylor (an American youtuber studying in Italy) might interest you. ;)
@Todor: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blasphemy ... ldwide.svg But, as I said, keep in mind that's not really applied here - and I doubt it's anywhere.
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AlanK
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Post by AlanK »

max tre wrote: @AlanK: "Curse culture" by Tia Taylor (an American youtuber studying in Italy) might interest you. ;)
Thanx and a tip o' the hat :!:
"Past performance is no guarantee of future results."
nemesys
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Post by nemesys »

max tre wrote:
nemesys wrote:
max tre wrote:The problem about Correnti is that I could imagine a yellow cart for offences (mmh), not a free kick.
Who/what is "Correnti"? :confused:
Just check my previous post, there's a hyperlink too. :D
GIUOCO DEL CALCIO (edizione 1996)

"""

REGOLA 12 - FALLI E SCORRETTEZZE

Un calciatore sarà espulso dal terreno di gioco, mostrandogli il cartellino rosso, se a giudizio dell'arbitro:

o) si rende colpevole di condotta violenta;
p) si rende colpevole di condotta gravemente sleale;
q) tiene un atteggiamento ingiurioso o gravemente offensivo;
r) si rende colpevole di condotta scorretta dopo essere stato ammonito.

Se il giuoco è stato interrotto a causa della espulsione di un calciatore per una di queste due ultime infrazioni, senza che siano state trasgredite altre norme della presente regola, dovrà essere ripreso con un calcio di punizione indiretto, concesso a favore della avversaria dal punto in cui è stata commessa l'infrazione, con riserva delle condizioni di deroga imposte dalla regola 13.

"""

Page 135.

Note: Regola 13 (Rule 13) is about CALCI DI PUNIZIONE (Free Kicks), so the last sentence just means that if such spot is within the goal box, the nearest point on the line of such goal box will be used instead.

Finally, this is not a FIGC decision, nor a Serie A exception or specific rule, this is within the 17 Fooball rules of the game adopted and imposed by IFAB, FIFA, UEFA, and so on.

So, technically speaking, definitely not a referee mistake.

And, it is not even a case in which you can say: he was in pain, he was frustrated from bad luck: he was cursing to cheer his team mates, that's deliberate, or anyhow injurious! Definitely a foul to be sanctioned with an indirect free kick plus a red card, by these rules.

The fact that you like it or not, is irrelevant. The referee in this specific case did what he was supposed to do, by the rules. Several football rules might sound unexpected or weird* - I could open a thread about some day - but a referee, even if some rules sound weird to him, has to apply them when is judging the events on the pitch, he/she cannot make his/her own version of the rules. :)

*Example: indirect free kick inside your own box, you kick directly into your own goal, it is goal for the opponent team or not?
Todor wrote:Grazie and nemesys as well! I'm very much surprised that blasphemy is still punished by law anywhere in Europe.
I'm very much surprised too. I'd really like to know which article of the penal code states that blasphemy itself (i.e. not swearwords specifically destined to offend someone, or bothering noises by screaming them loud at night) to be a crime or to be illegal: if applied the whole city of Livorno would be in jail (their dialect sentences uses more blasphemies than commas).

Also, I don't think that the viewers were the issue, maybe the disciplinary board just wanted to look zealous for once.
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bjkman1903
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Post by bjkman1903 »

Thanks for your answers nemesys and max tre ;-)
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nemesys
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Post by nemesys »

max tre wrote:somehow "lucky" 2012 Scudetto
What a weird unexplainable end of season.
(...and good epilogue for premium TVs). ;)
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max tre
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Post by max tre »

@Nemesys: I never said the referee was wrong in the Correnti's circumstance or that Maran did not deserved the ban by the rules. I'm saying I found the first thing very curious (btw, he was not expelled, and I also guess the "blasphemy" is a FIGC clarification - search "blasfem" and all you're gonna find is under the "Decisioni Ufficiali FIGC" note).
I'm not sure it's a stupid rule, but you can't really think he's the only one who swore last Sunday. But they apply it only from to time, you can't deny that.

About the everyday-law thing: http://www.brocardi.it/codice-penale/li ... rt724.html
Note that the "[o i Simboli o le Persone venerati nella religione dello Stato]" was virtually removed by the constitutional court (so it's not only the "Catholic" God), and that "Divinità" does not include the Vergin Mary, nor any Saint.
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Post by nemesys »

max tre wrote:I never said the referee was wrong in the Correnti's circumstance
Well, now I'm saying that he probably was:

""" L’arbitro Menegali mi disse che avrebbe anche dovuto espellermi e, quindi, mi andava ancora bene """

This, if true, is a technical error: you don't tell a player "you deserve a red card but you are lucky, I won't give it to you": either you take the decision following what the rules state, or you don't. You don't make your own rules. The rule state to give a red card, not a free kick; the free kick is only a consequence of the fact that you (referee) had to stop the game for such disciplinary action, if such scenario (the need to stop the game) happens.

And this brings on the second point:

""" Scanziani la buttò in tribuna e lì per lì gliene dissi di tutti i colori e bestemmiai """

The ball was already not in play, out of the pitch kicked by a team mate? Then the game should restart with a throw in. This, again, if the version that you linked is true, would actually be a technical pretty noticeable mistake, for a Serie A referee.

However, what I wish you to understand:
- the red card is the consequence of the offensive behavior;
- the indirect free kick is a consequence of the fact that the referee had to stop the game to take such disciplinary action.

This means that:
- if the ball is not in play, there is a red card but not a free kick;
- the free kick is not a punishment (but a consequence of such punishment), only the red card itself is the punishment.

Then, if in such case the referee messed up, well, it happens.
Sure, Juve down 1-2 a couple of minutes to the end and equalizing on such free kick, makes it look nasty.
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nemesys
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Post by nemesys »

max tre wrote:I'm not sure it's a stupid rule, but you can't really think he's the only one who swore last Sunday. But they apply it only from to time, you can't deny that.
Listen, I won't care about watching the images, no matter what, sorry.
Was it polemic or very "plateale"? (sorry all, I can't translate this efficiently in English).
If so, then this could be the reason.

Then on the fact that the TV proof is an uneven method which makes little sense, you are breaking down an open door. Imagine such official camera wasn't there, or it was directed somewhere else. Imagine a not official camera instead recorded the event: so, now, what happens? And this is just the top of the iceberg of the incoherence.

Goal sensors could make sense, beyond that, I'll leave it to the referee, it still the littlest of the evils.

Just my two cents.
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nemesys
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Post by nemesys »

max tre wrote:I also guess the "blasphemy" is a FIGC clarification - search "blasfem" and all you're gonna find is under the "Decisioni Ufficiali FIGC" note).

About the everyday-law thing: http://www.brocardi.it/codice-penale/li ... rt724.html
Thanks. I didn't know of either one.
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max tre
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Post by max tre »

nemesys wrote:Listen, I won't care about watching the images, no matter what, sorry.
Was it polemic or very "plateale"? (sorry all, I can't translate this efficiently in English).
If so, then this could be the reason.
He was alone, talking to himself... No protest at all.
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Lyonnais
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Post by Lyonnais »

whoscored marks

update after MD5 (average of the best 3 performances)


1. Mohamed Salah (Roma) 8.81
2. Edin Dzeko (Roma) 8.79
3. Mauro Icardi (Inter) 8.57
4. José Callejon (Napoli) 8.51
5. Gregoire Defrel (Sassuolo) 8.12
6. Valter Birsa (Chievo) 7.97
7. Simone Verdi (Bologna) 7.95
8. Rodrigo De Paul (Udinese) 7.94
9. Paulo Dybala (Juventus) 7.94
10. Francesco Acerbi (Sassuolo) 7.93
etc.
Don't forget to post your predictions for the new season
viewtopic.php?p=563580#p563580
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Arges Pitesti
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Post by Arges Pitesti »

Yesterday underdog Milan defeated Juventus 1-0. A big part of the deal has been a regular goal by Juventus with the game tied, which has been eventually disallowed after video review. This was a mistake by the judge. Now I guess that ignorant "fans" will start to say bullshit like "this is the demonstration that technology doesn't work and the video review is useless blah blah blah". I hope that this mistake will stay as a single isolate case.
"Better lose one match 5-0 than five 1-0" W. Boskov
matt
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Post by matt »

Sad sunday morning :cry:

However yesterday Juventus won against Napoli 2-1. They were quite lucky to win this game (the first goal was a stupid error by a Napoli defender). Higuain scored the second....poor Napoli fans...

Juventus aren't trashing everybody like many people predicted. Their matches are quite balanced so far, and they even lost in San Siro two times. Still, they are going to win the league, no doubt about it.

The relegation fight include very weak teams (so far): Crotone, Empoli, Palermo and Pescara. It would be a surprise if 3 out of 4 of them won't relegate in Serie B.
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Lyonnais
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Post by Lyonnais »

whoscored marks - update after MD10

average of the best 5 performances

1. Edin Dzeko (Roma) 9.09
2. Felipe Anderson (Lazio) 8.66
3. Mohamed Salah (Roma) 8.63
4. Mauro Icardi (Inter) 8.35
5. Gonzalo Higuain (Juventus) 8.28
6. Paulo Dybala (Juventus) 8.27
7. Andrea Belotti (Torino) 8.26
8. Senad Lulic (Lazio) 8.23
9. Ciro Immobile (Lazio) 8.21
10. José Callejon (Napoli) 8.17
etc.


Best XI

........................... Dzeko (Roma) - Icardi (Inter) ..........................
.... Laxalt (Genoa) - Lulic (Lazio) - Pjanic (Juventus) - Anderson (Lazio) ...
Sandro (Juventus) - Acerbi (Sassuolo) - Masiello (Atalanta) - Alves (Juventus)
................................ Szczesny (Roma) ....................................
Don't forget to post your predictions for the new season
viewtopic.php?p=563580#p563580
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