CL reform for the 2018-2021 cycle

[bugylibicska]

Study finds FFP reinforces financial inequality in football

"Due to the financial caps, potential financiers don't see a chance for financially weaker clubs to transform into internationally competitive teams by means of their investment. This is how FFP solidifies existing hierarchies."

http://ca.soccerway.com/news/2016/Septe ... l/n845607/

[Overgame]

Study finds FFP reinforces financial inequality in football

"Due to the financial caps, potential financiers don't see a chance for financially weaker clubs to transform into internationally competitive teams by means of their investment. This is how FFP solidifies existing hierarchies."

http://ca.soccerway.com/news/2016/Septe ... l/n845607/

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Research conducted by economists from the Technical University of Munich (TUM), who assessed 10 years of data, revealed FFP rules could block investment in smaller clubs.

If the answer is "could", well their study means nothing.

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Investors can break up established structures and thus strengthen competition – similar to what we have seen with venture capital in economics,

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Clubs and soccer associations could take some cues from the business world on how to combine the free market, competition regulations, and good management practice.

Everything is said in two sentence : football should a buisness and nothing else.

[Ricardo]

EPFL (European Professianal Football Leagues?) have started to protest against the new format. They have not been ackoledged and now think about not cooperating in matching the domestic league calendar with the CL/EL calendar...

(Probably with some extra cash flowing to the domestic leagues this will be solved, but still, apparently a step has been overlooked in building the new plan....)

[Ricardo]

Study finds FFP reinforces financial inequality in football

"Due to the financial caps, potential financiers don't see a chance for financially weaker clubs to transform into internationally competitive teams by means of their investment. This is how FFP solidifies existing hierarchies."

http://ca.soccerway.com/news/2016/Septe ... l/n845607/

Code: Select all

Research conducted by economists from the Technical University of Munich (TUM), who assessed 10 years of data, revealed FFP rules could block investment in smaller clubs.

If the answer is "could", well their study means nothing.

Code: Select all

Investors can break up established structures and thus strengthen competition – similar to what we have seen with venture capital in economics,

Code: Select all

Clubs and soccer associations could take some cues from the business world on how to combine the free market, competition regulations, and good management practice.

Everything is said in two sentence : football should a buisness and nothing else.

We are getting closer to football as a show, with a script on who makes what attempt when. A close battle with 1 team winning 3-2 is so much more fun to watch as a boring 2-0. It will sell for sure much better. As lomg as we dont know it is scripted. I wonder if the mass would care actualy, they prefer a friendly juve-manU anyway to a CL-KO Celtic-Zagreb.....

[Thunder_PT]

Does anyone know if the old "EL" points are given to both the winners of UC and CWC?

[Funkmaster]

From Forum 1

"For UEL the access list has only entries for the group stage. The other details are left to the Club Competions Committee. Except for one major point. Clearly indicated is a Champions Path and a League Path as two separate routes for UEL qualifying. The League Path has the usual 4 qualifying rounds, and the Champions Path has 3 qualifying rounds (Q2, Q3, and PO). This must imply that all champions who fail to qualify for the UCL get another chance in the UEL qualification."


I really wonder how this will look like? Any ideas?

[bert.kassies]

I really wonder how this will look like? Any ideas?

That detail is not provided in those documents. But, in theory, just as an example, it COULD be implemented as follows:

EL-CHQ2: 17 dropouts from CL-Q1 + 3 dropouts from CL-PR = 20 clubs
EL-CHQ3: 10 dropouts from CL-Q2 + 10 winners of EL-CHQ2 = 20 clubs
EL-CHQ4: 6 dropouts from CL-Q3 + 10 winners of EL-CHQ3 = 16 clubs
EL-GS: 4 dropouts from CL-Q4 + 8 winners of EL-CHQ4 = 12 champions qualify for group-stage of EL

[bert.kassies]

Does anyone know if the old "EL" points are given to both the winners of UC and CWC?

Good question, but that detail is not provided. It's just mentioned as "UEL titles before 1992/93".

CWC titles were given from 1960/61 till 1998/99.
UC from 1971/72 till 2008/09.
EL from 2009/10 onwards.

From 1959/60 till 1970/71 there was an Inter-Cities Fairs Cup. But I would be surprised if they count that.

[Arges Pitesti]

Eureka! Final solution! Habemus Champions!

My idea for a brand new European Cup for Clubs.

- 128 teams
- all KO round, double leg
- round of 128, 64, 32 from September till December
- round of 16, quarter, semi and final from February till May
- seeding based on ranking till round of 32 included

Teams' distribution:

Rank 1-3 -------------> 5 teams (like now plus domestic cup winner)
Rank 4-6 --------------> 4 teams (like now plus domestic cup winner)
Rank 7-15 ---------------> 3 teams (like now plus domestic cup winner)
Rank 16-48*-------------> 2 teams (like now plus domestic cup winner)
Rank 49-55 ..............> 1 team (national champs - Leichtenstein domestic cup winner)
Title holder**
Europa league holder**

* except Liechtenstein
** if already qualified by their domestic championship/cup, they clear a spot for another club of their nation

So, in this way, we could make happy both big and small teams: the former would have more teams, so even disappointing teams like United or Inter would have more chance to qualify; the latter would be no more discriminated as far as there would be no more preliminaries and, say, Dinamo Zagabria would have to win the same number of matches than Barca (both starting in September) in order to lift the trophy! So, "dignity" called out by Nemesys will finally be respected.

Also, there would be the same number of matches (13) and surely they would be more fun (no question that KO rounds >>>>>>>>>>>> group stage).

So......am I daring to say that Real could be out of major european contest in October?!?!?!?! ehm.......yes. That means a fair competition.

So please UEFA, do the right thing, once in a lifetime!

[Funkmaster]

I really wonder how this will look like? Any ideas?

That detail is not provided in those documents. But, in theory, just as an example, it COULD be implemented as follows:

EL-CHQ2: 17 dropouts from CL-Q1 + 3 dropouts from CL-PR = 20 clubs
EL-CHQ3: 10 dropouts from CL-Q2 + 10 winners of EL-CHQ2 = 20 clubs
EL-CHQ4: 6 dropouts from CL-Q3 + 10 winners of EL-CHQ3 = 16 clubs
EL-GS: 4 dropouts from CL-Q4 + 8 winners of EL-CHQ4 = 12 champions qualify for group-stage of EL

That look´s reasonable. If that´s the final reason, EL-qualification for non-champions wil be very hard.

There are 48 berths in EL-group stage. 12 - 15 berths are reserved for cup winners, 4 berths are reserved for clubs in countries 1-4 finishing the season in 5th place and 10 berths are reserved for the loosers of CL-PO (Champions way) and 3. CLQ and CL-PO (non-champions way), if I`m right?
So there are only 7 or 10 berths in EL-group stage free (reserved) for non-champions starting in EL - qualification from the beginning?! Now we have 22 berths for them

C´mon they can´t be serious, countries outside top 15 are absolutely f***ed up...

[nogomet]

I really wonder how this will look like? Any ideas?

That detail is not provided in those documents. But, in theory, just as an example, it COULD be implemented as follows:

EL-CHQ2: 17 dropouts from CL-Q1 + 3 dropouts from CL-PR = 20 clubs
EL-CHQ3: 10 dropouts from CL-Q2 + 10 winners of EL-CHQ2 = 20 clubs
EL-CHQ4: 6 dropouts from CL-Q3 + 10 winners of EL-CHQ3 = 16 clubs
EL-GS: 4 dropouts from CL-Q4 + 8 winners of EL-CHQ4 = 12 champions qualify for group-stage of EL

The problem with this system is the timing of the draws. Performing a draw for EL-CHQ3 before CL-Q2 is over would need the assumption that the lower seeded club would lose. So in case of a surprise loss of a highly seeded club, this creates huge imbalances and unfairness in the system, as someone from the seeded side would end up playing the Celtics, Legias or APOELs of the world.

Because of that I think they will choose one of the two options:
1) two EL-CH qualifying rounds:
-----EL-CHQ3 for losers from CL-Q1 (and possibly CL-PR to make the number of teams even)
-----EL-CHQ4 for losers from CL-Q2 and CL-Q3 and winners of EL-CHQ3

2) only one EL-CH qualifying round where they would put the losers from CL-Q2 and CL-Q3, while the losers from CL-Q1 have no safety net and finish their season in July like they do now.

Only then there is no problem with the timing of the draw.

[bert.kassies]

I really wonder how this will look like? Any ideas?

So there are only 7 or 10 berths in EL-group stage free (reserved) for non-champions starting in EL - qualification from the beginning?! Now we have 22 berths for them

For this example that is not correct, I think.
1) direct in EL-GS 16-19 clubs,
2) champion qualifiers for EL-GS 12 clubs,
3) non-champion CL qualifiers for EL-GS 2 clubs
So, 48 - 30/33 = 15-18 spots remain for EL qualifiers.

And yes, in addition, EL-Q4 will have 4 CL non-champion dropouts, and optionally EL-Q3 will have 3 CL non-champion dropouts.

[nemesys]

My idea for a brand new European Cup for Clubs.
- 128 teams
- all KO round, double leg
- round of 128, 64, 32 from September till December
- round of 16, quarter, semi and final from February till May

Where do I sign?
It will never happen, but I feel a bit less lonely now.

[Forza AZ]

For the current 22 spots you also have 10 champions taking part. If you would pair these 10 champions in the current system you would only have 17 spots left for the teams starting in EL-Q (+5 dropouts on CLNC-Q3).
So comparing that 17 spots to the 15-18 in the new system doesn't give that much difference.

[Overgame]

My idea for a brand new European Cup for Clubs.
- 128 teams
- all KO round, double leg
- round of 128, 64, 32 from September till December
- round of 16, quarter, semi and final from February till May

Where do I sign?
It will never happen, but I feel a bit less lonely now.

Brand new ? Call it "the old UEFA Cup".