Are domestic cups more or less important than 10-15 years ago?

[matt]

Since i follow football, Coppa Italia isn't taken seriously, also because it has a stupid formula. The feeling towards it is the same from many years.

But i'm curious to hear about other countries.

The cup (or cups) in your country are taken more or less seriously than 10-15 years ago?

I saw the results in Poland and Russia...bizzarre results, CSKA Moskva, Spartak Moskva, Rostov, Legia, Lechia already out.

Russian cup gives one spot in ELGS...

Maybe Cl-places (Cl-money...) and avoid relegation are so important in today modern football that the domestic cups are less and less important every year. Just my impression.

[nemesys]

But i'm curious to hear about other countries.

FA Cup matters. A lot. All FA clubs take part of it, it kept (almost) the same format since around 1870, and it is the oldest club competition in the world. I can't tell about others national cups.

[bugylibicska]

FA cup also lost some of its magic in my opinion. Since only the CL matters for the big English clubs, their focus only to finish among the top 4. In Russia it`s not seldom that less than 50% of the premier league clubs survive the 1st round. I`ve seen Spartak Moskva lost in Khabarovsk, but travelled with their B team. CSKA also lost to Krasnoyarsk. They don`t take the cup seriously.

[Gorandinho]

In Belgium attendances in the Cup are really low. Nobody cares about it until they are in the finals and then they pretend its the biggest game of the year. The teams themselves take it a bit more serious ever since there is a EL groupstage spot to earn but still the league is way more important.

[nemesys]

FA cup also lost some of its magic in my opinion.

It did lost some of his magic. And this is sad.

However, the FA cup it is quite important in England, it still the only cup that really matters among all the cups left, if we consider the CL as an hybrid between a cup and a league, and in any case an FA Cup is worth more than an EL for an English side.

In Spain maybe la Copa del Rey has some prestige too, but that's because, I * suppose *, * maybe * the final is often Real-Barca, which is a derby, however, * I really can't tell about Spain or about other countries *.

All I can say is that the FA Cup has some prestige and (relatively) important weight in the trophy room of a club.

[AlanK]

The Copa del Rey had fallen greatly in prestige about the turn of the millennium, but now all the prestige and interest is back. Attending the Final is a big deal. I was in my hotel in Barcelona, talking to my friend the night man, when news was made public that the Final would be played in the Camp Nou in 2015. As we talked, his phone started ringing and ringing and ringing--all were calls from Bilbao fans who wanted to book immediately if not sooner for their trip to the Final. And since Barça and Real won't let their stadiums be used if the other of the two is in the Final--well, the ticket scalpers make a fortune. Last Final I attended was way back in 1985 . . .

[Lorric]

Yes, some of the shine has come off the FA Cup, but it is still a big deal. More clubs than ever seem to not take it seriously, but most still do, and the competition is very good at weeding these teams out early.

[Todor]

Bulgarian Cup is taken quite seriously here. First level clubs usually give their best and try to win it.
I believe the German clubs, Bayern included treat DFB Pokal with full respect.

[bugylibicska]

The prestige of the FA cup is far outweigh any other domestic cups, no question in my mind. Not just in England, but everywhere. But...when the ``big`` boys send out their B teams it shows their respect diminished, a pity. I remember a few years back - or more than a few years - MU even asked permission to let them be withdrawn, because of an overcrowded calendar - they`ve played in the intercontinental cup that year, if my memory doesn`t do a trick on me. I still enjoy an occasional shock when a team of nobodies spank a premier league club. A while back Stevenage?

[SimonB]

Well being English I can only comment with good knowledge about the English FA cup. I would say compared to 15 years ago not much change but compared to 30-40 years ago a bit less important.

Mainly to do with money of course, the prize money for winning the FA cup final currently stands at £2m dropping gradually to under £100, 000 for the third round and even a few thousand for the early qualifying rounds. Televised games I believe earn up to about £250,000 for the latter stages and slightly less early on. For premier league clubs a win in the final is therefore equivalent to about 2 places in the league and very insignificant compared to Cl qualification. I would say that the top teams take it "semi-seriously", it is still a good thing to win if you can not compete for the league title.

For teams below the top level I would say that it is taken very seriously unless the team in question has a chance for promotion to the premier league. A good sequence of wins for a lower league club can earn good revenue compared to its potential league earnings especially for the very low leagues.

As far as other formats are concerned I share your dislike for your own format. This should also serve as a warning for a closed superleague as I think people would tire of seeing the same old teams compete against each other year after year.

Of the others that I know about I like the formats for the French cup, and especially the German cup where I believe that the lower sides get to be drawn at home.

Finally, a question, does anyone have any information regarding prizes for their own domestic cups?

[nemesys]

Well being English I can only comment with good knowledge about the English FA cup. I would say compared to 15 years ago not much change but compared to 30-40 years ago a bit less important.

Mainly to do with money of course, the prize money for winning the FA cup final currently stands at £2m dropping gradually to under £100, 000 for the third round and even a few thousand for the early qualifying rounds. Televised games I believe earn up to about £250,000 for the latter stages and slightly less early on. For premier league clubs a win in the final is therefore equivalent to about 2 places in the league and very insignificant compared to Cl qualification. I would say that the top teams take it "semi-seriously", it is still a good thing to win if you can not compete for the league title.

For teams below the top level I would say that it is taken very seriously unless the team in question has a chance for promotion to the premier league. A good sequence of wins for a lower league club can earn good revenue compared to its potential league earnings especially for the very low leagues.

As far as other formats are concerned I share your dislike for your own format. This should also serve as a warning for a closed superleague as I think people would tire of seeing the same old teams compete against each other year after year.

Of the others that I know about I like the formats for the French cup, and especially the German cup where I believe that the lower sides get to be drawn at home.

Finally, a question, does anyone have any information regarding prizes for their own domestic cups?

""" Già esserci, dunque, vale tra i 3 e i 5 milioni di euro. """
Be in final is already 3-5 M (Euro).

""" Juve/Milan: Coppa Italia vale 6 milioni """
For Juve/Milan, the Coppa Italia means 6 M (Euro).

Best link I could find.

https://it.sports.yahoo.com/notizie/esp ... --sow.html

On the bolded part of your post: I fully agree!

@Bugy
""" The prestige of the FA cup is far outweigh any other domestic cups, no question in my mind. Not just in England, but everywhere. """
Yep. This what i was trying to say.

""" But...when the ``big`` boys send out their B teams it shows their respect diminished, a pity. """
This is not SO bad. I mean, players 12-22 in Manchester, are superior to a 3rd division club. Also, they are subs, if they get a chance to play regular for an official match, they give 100%. Also to impress the coach. Of course, a regular on paper is better, but sometimes better a sub 100% motivated, than a regular short of breath. On the other fact you underlined instead I fully agree: sad.

""" I still enjoy an occasional shock when a team of nobodies spank a premier league club. """
Not just that. Manchester wins 4-1 vs. a 3rd division club: that club, that player scoring the goal, can say "I scored to Manchester". This is important for the fans, for the club, for the player. It is part of football. That's what is so wrong in Coppa Italia format. Imagine a club always in third division, imagine a center forward player, 32yo, always playing in 3rd division: one night, in an official match, a goal against Manchester with all England watching it. This is a nice football story. No matter if they lose. Then, if like you say, they win, even better!

[nemesys]

@Simon
Better link:
http://it.eurosport.com/calcio/coppa-it ... tory.shtml

It is Eurosport, if you search for it there is maybe an English version of the article?

[HibeeJibee]

In Scotland, both the Scottish Cup and League Cup are taken seriously by clubs... There was a period maybe 5-10yrs ago when it became popular for some of the big clubs to play weak teams in the League Cup - personally I think this was due to managers looking at England and thinking that was a sign of being "big" - but it has never been widespread. If the league champion reaches CL groupstage they sometimes rest players in League Cup.

Cups represent a chance to generate money and a chance win something - important when only Celtic and Rangers have won the league since 1985. Also prestige - SFs & Finals of the Scottish Cup, and Final of the League Cup, are played at Hampden Park. League Cup SFs can be at any neutral venue.


Attendances are strong in both cups compared to a lot of European countries, but in the early rounds they are usually lower than league games. It's hard to say why this is - some people think it's because cup-ties aren't included in Season Tickets, but this has been the case for a long time. For the Scottish Cup they experimented with holding the Fourth Round, where the top division clubs join, in December; but this improved nothing and so it's gone back to its traditional January slot. Final is always 3pm on the last Saturday of the season - experiment with Sunday in 2013 caused anger.

Crowds in the Scottish Cup are always higher than the League Cup as it has more tradition, is seen as more important, and is played on weekends.

Scottish Cup is open to tiers 1-5 plus 6 clubs who progress from preliminaries. Entry points are staggered over R1-R4. League Cup is open to tiers 1-4 plus both champions of tier 5 to complete numbers. CL/EL clubs enter in R2.

Scottish Cup has replays except in SFs & Final - clubs can use fourth sub in extratime. League Cup has no replays - drawn group games go to pens for bonus 1pt.



For about 30yrs the League Cup had been a straight knockout tournament played on midweek in the autumn (but SFs & Final went to spring after CL expanded in 1999). However this season a groupstage was introduced in July, and SFs & Final are back to autumn.

Crowds in the groups were very low but this was not surprising and many treated them like friendlies. R2 & R3 crowds have been similar to before.

There is no doubt that the decision to take away its UEFA Cup place in 1999 also diminished slightly the prestige of the League Cup.


Overall I would say that the cups in Scotland as are important as they were 10, 20, 30 or most likely even 40 years ago; but not as important as they were 50 years ago or more. At one time winning the cup was seen as more important than winning the league. This ended during the 1950s it seems, possibly due to European football. Also by the 1950s and 1960s all the people who could remember no league/small league would have passed on.

From time to time there have been experiments or proposals for a third top-level cup - Summer Cup, Drybrough Cup, SPL Cup - but never successful.

It was also European football, the Premier Division and Texaco Cup which diminished local cups like the Glasgow Cup, East of Scotland Shield, etc.

[Wanderer]

Bulgarian Cup is taken quite seriously here. First level clubs usually give their best and try to win it.

That's absolutely NOT true! Very few teams take it seriously, more prefer to focus on league performance and take the cup matches as a kind of official friendlies. Even some clubs get eliminated on purpose at early stages to minimize the travel costs. The greatest proof of the devaluation of the local Cup is the fact that a 3rd division's club won its last edition defeated a bottom 1st division's club in the final...

[Thunder_PT]

In Portugal it hasn't lost value, it's still taken seriously. Just Google Braga's celebration for winning it last season, the streets were packed.

Do big teams play their second team if they draw a lower league team? Sure, but they do so thinking they can win anyway, not because they do not care about the cup.