Belgium fans who considered themselves as top 4 favourites in WC2014 were few and far between. It wasn't remotely close to Oranje-fever that breaks out when Holland go to the WC. Even the players were surprised by the welcome they received in Belgium after a QF exit. In 2014 hopes were set on reaching the QFs with one of the youngest squads in Brazil (IIRC due to a last-minute injury there was only one squad younger than ours or Belgium would have been the youngest team). The likes of Hazard and KDB were in their early 20s, Fellaini, Witsel and Dembele are only a bit older, ... the personnel was basically the same as now but many had yet to reach their prime (Mertens is a bit of a late bloomer and Wilmots left out Nainggolan). So we had leaders in every line when they were 4 years younger but now we don't? Januzaj, crazy Vanden Borre, a 3rd string goalie that's now nowhere near the team, ... none of them will be in Russia but also none of them were leaders. Kompany's injury proneness always is a worry but when he's on he's still barking orders. Courtois and Vertonghen (+/-Alderweireld), KDB, Hazard (capt. now), Lukaku have grown a lot in the past 4 years and the dressing room is now more settled than it was in Brazil (or any time under Wilmots's soft touch). "even beaten by Wales" implies expectations weren't out of tune. On paper doesn't matter in the end and on grass Wales deserved the win. I disagree the group stage was labored in France though (our stats back this up as well).Duketown wrote:Sao..
You sound like those Belgium fans who considered themselves as top 4 favorites in WC2014 and EC2016 as well. Belgium 2014 squad was their best team since it had leaders and thus hierarchy. Still, they didn't impress in groupstage, needed a lot of luck against USA and lost their first real test against Argentina. Then in 2016, expectation were even bigger but results were they same: struggle in groupstage and even beaten by Wales, the best possible draw.
Since then, the new coach might be better but that remains to be seen. With those Belgium players, even Urbanus could have brought this team to Russia. However, I have my doubts by a Spaniard managing complex Belgium mindset through this tournament. Still, it's a better option then any Belgium coach, so I understand the choice.
But is Belgium good enough to beat countries with deep benches like France, Germany or Brasil, in knock-outs, while having some injuries and/or suspensions themselves and while dealing with nation-wide pressure? And that 3 or 4 times in a row? Even ignoring complete history or even last 2 tournaments, Belgium still lacks some qualities and even has some more question-marks.
They lack defenders on the bench. Kinda silly since they have 8 great players on the bench but to much mono-quality. Unless Martinez insists in having so many offensive players, it would even mean Witsel in defense or add defenders like Ciman, Boyata, Jordan Lukaku, Denayer and/or Kabasele to the squad. With 2 of them in your squad, you don't stand a change against the big boys while other outsiders easily can beat such defense as well. Obviously, tite is impressed by midfield and attackers but doesn't understand that Belgium is lacking defender number 5, 6 and 7. Without Nainggolan, only defensive midfielder is Witsel and he already falls short against the big boys.
So I compare them to Portugal; an outsider with some nice players but once knock-out starts and a few suspensions and injuries arise, the big boy simply will be better; just like last times. A quarter final would be great and then hoping for a good draw. If Belgium wins that, maybe a huge upset may happen if the mindset is right. For now, that's only a dream.
However, they have my support and they sure as hell can score against any other team. If everything plays out right, we really might enjoy their attackers! I hope Martens finally get's all the trust he deserves.
A defensive side adept at depriving the best opposition of time, space and opportunity is hard to break down and especially in international football you shouldn't expect big wins. I agree we were hardly impressive in the group in Brazil but it takes two teams if you want to see an actual game of football. Both Algeria and (Capello's) Russia set up for an ultra defensive snoozefest against us and for the final one v. S.Korea only the goalie and Vertonghen played a 3rd game as we were already through. Compared to Germany v. Algeria we faced a more conservative Algeria and had to come from behind after Vertonghen's mistake. It didn't look pretty but we still won our game in 90'. Germany struggled for control untill the end of extra time and if those chances weren't wasted Algeria could have easily had a result against Germany. There are quite a lot of games where Germans (or another powerhouse) are short of ideas and don't score in 90'. It's a pain in the ass for everyone. Besides under Wilmots we often scored from play in transition (as you'd expect when you lack a plan for how to attack). Sure Martinez has plenty to prove but you can't exactly blame him for the group we were drawn into, no manager has control over that, and then sailing through the WCQs. Wilmots got results too but the play wasn't as good. Because it went so smoothly Martinez can keep finetuning and keep working on tactical flexibility (well within the limits of international football).
3 more things:
1. Show me the NTs that donot have any weaknesses in their starting line-up and on the bench. Be my guest. Just like every other NT Belgium have weaknesses. Belgium aren't top four in the world. We barely merit to be in pot 1 (i.e. I agree with our odds). Getting out of the group and being knocked out immediately after would be failure. QFs (or better, please) and instead of Siberia the team can return to a warm welcome. Wales aren't there to stop us, so...
2. Depth is less important compared to club football and NTs can only bring 23 players (sorry poor Spanish midfielders). It's smarter to bring extra attacking talent as NT managers have fiddled a lot less with their defences at past WCs (most of the unused subs are goalies and defenders). Also, do I need to remind you who Holland had in their backline in 2010 and 2014? TBF except for Ron Beton their names were hardly recognizable at the time and there was plenty of discussion about them ahead of those WCs (yet some earned a move away from the Eredivisie after). Ciman, Boyata, Denayer and/or Kabasele = only one of them will be a squaddie in Russia if the others are fully fit and in form.
3. If there's one player that tries too hard and could tense up it's Lukaku (his move to a big club could do him a world of good). Wilmots didn't do him any favours and Lukaku was under added pressure of being benched every minute Wilmots was in charge. Wilmots also didn't feel he needed a striker coach and thought of himself as an amateur psychologist. He said his strikers were just too young and we had to wait until their wastefulness was no longer a problem instead of offering some support. We now have Henry working with them and by the looks of it he's doing a good job. We'll also see plenty of Mertens.
