2017/18 CL GRP F Shaktar x Manchester City x Napoli x Feyenoord

[SimonB]

In 1996/1997 you had 16 champions.
In 2017/2018 you have 18 champions + 14 “giants” to make the tournament competitive.

Would you rather not have these 14 “giants” and instead have 14 “domestic league first placed teams”?

So, no Barcelona, Atlético Madrid, Leipzig, Borussia Dortmund, Tottenham, Manchester City, Roma, FC Porto, Paris Saint-Germain, Sevilla, Liverpool, Napoli, Sporting and CSKA Moscow?

And instead Slavia Prague, Viitorul Constanta, FC Salzburg, Rijeka, Legia Warsaw, BATE Borisov, Malmo, Rosenborg, Hapoel Beer-Sheva, FC Copenhagen, Partizan Belgrade, Astana, Ludogorets and Zilina?

Most of these “domestic league first placed teams” are in the EL now, a competition where they have good chances to shine, instead of being everybody else’s punching bag.


:

Total bullshit.
You mean teams like Ajax, Feyenoord, Zagreb, celtic qnd the likes vs.so called giants villareal, Roma, Lyon. Only PL and Bundesliga teams are larger than those domestic champions but same goes for those so called giants.

And bring in those domestic champs and those clubs will bring in whole countries as fans. Give that uefa prize money to those huge clubs and sponsor will come the next day.

Secondary clubs from large countries aren't bigger than those domestic countries who will bring complete countries as fans.

So why did this money not come in the past when it was done "in the right way", but it is coming in ever larger amounts now when we are doing it "in the wrong way"?

The group PSG, Bayern, Anderlecht, Celtic would become the norm if we had a greater proportion of champions, that would make things more exciting for all wouldn't it?

[FR-Rinaldo]

In 1996/1997 you had 16 champions.
In 2017/2018 you have 18 champions + 14 “giants” to make the tournament competitive.

Would you rather not have these 14 “giants” and instead have 14 “domestic league first placed teams”?

So, no Barcelona, Atlético Madrid, Leipzig, Borussia Dortmund, Tottenham, Manchester City, Roma, FC Porto, Paris Saint-Germain, Sevilla, Liverpool, Napoli, Sporting and CSKA Moscow?

And instead Slavia Prague, Viitorul Constanta, FC Salzburg, Rijeka, Legia Warsaw, BATE Borisov, Malmo, Rosenborg, Hapoel Beer-Sheva, FC Copenhagen, Partizan Belgrade, Astana, Ludogorets and Zilina?

Most of these “domestic league first placed teams” are in the EL now, a competition where they have good chances to shine, instead of being everybody else’s punching bag.


:

Total bullshit.
You mean teams like Ajax, Feyenoord, Zagreb, celtic qnd the likes vs.so called giants villareal, Roma, Lyon. Only PL and Bundesliga teams are larger than those domestic champions but same goes for those so called giants.

And bring in those domestic champs and those clubs will bring in whole countries as fans. Give that uefa prize money to those huge clubs and sponsor will come the next day.

Secondary clubs from large countries aren't bigger than those domestic countries who will bring complete countries as fans.

So why did this money not come in the past when it was done "in the right way", but it is coming in ever larger amounts now when we are doing it "in the wrong way"?

The group PSG, Bayern, Anderlecht, Celtic would become the norm if we had a greater proportion of champions, that would make things more exciting for all wouldn't it?

What will happen if champions from lower ranked countries will have the opportunity to play more Champions League games? They will earn more money which will give them an opportunity to become a bit more competitive for group stage matches. Now some of that prize money goes automatically to the clubs that finish 2nd, 3rd or 4th in a lot of countries. They should be the ones that should play qualifiers to enter the group stage.

[Duketown]

In 1996/1997 you had 16 champions.
In 2017/2018 you have 18 champions + 14 “giants” to make the tournament competitive.

Would you rather not have these 14 “giants” and instead have 14 “domestic league first placed teams”?

So, no Barcelona, Atlético Madrid, Leipzig, Borussia Dortmund, Tottenham, Manchester City, Roma, FC Porto, Paris Saint-Germain, Sevilla, Liverpool, Napoli, Sporting and CSKA Moscow?

And instead Slavia Prague, Viitorul Constanta, FC Salzburg, Rijeka, Legia Warsaw, BATE Borisov, Malmo, Rosenborg, Hapoel Beer-Sheva, FC Copenhagen, Partizan Belgrade, Astana, Ludogorets and Zilina?

Most of these “domestic league first placed teams” are in the EL now, a competition where they have good chances to shine, instead of being everybody else’s punching bag.


:

Total bullshit.
You mean teams like Ajax, Feyenoord, Zagreb, celtic qnd the likes vs.so called giants villareal, Roma, Lyon. Only PL and Bundesliga teams are larger than those domestic champions but same goes for those so called giants.

And bring in those domestic champs and those clubs will bring in whole countries as fans. Give that uefa prize money to those huge clubs and sponsor will come the next day.

Secondary clubs from large countries aren't bigger than those domestic countries who will bring complete countries as fans.

So why did this money not come in the past when it was done "in the right way", but it is coming in ever larger amounts now when we are doing it "in the wrong way"?

The group PSG, Bayern, Anderlecht, Celtic would become the norm if we had a greater proportion of champions, that would make things more exciting for all wouldn't it?

This money was available in the past but lost when introducing CL and even extending this gap with prize money and market poule money. Results was more sponsor for those leagues and teams and thus widening the gap.

Then those teams also were better but since (partly due) this gap footballers became way more global orientated nowadays: they follow the money.

[Duketown]

They should be the ones that should play qualifiers to enter the group stage.

[Overgame]

This money was available in the past but lost when introducing CL and even extending this gap with prize money and market poule money.

Lie. Enough to discredit 99.99% of your BS posted everywhere.

[Dragonite]

What will happen if champions from lower ranked countries will have the opportunity to play more Champions League games? They will earn more money which will give them an opportunity to become a bit more competitive for group stage matches. Now some of that prize money goes automatically to the clubs that finish 2nd, 3rd or 4th in a lot of countries. They should be the ones that should play qualifiers to enter the group stage.

But this money only exists because UEFA is selling a tournament with “Barcelona, Atlético Madrid, Leipzig, Borussia Dortmund, Tottenham, Manchester City, Roma, FC Porto, Paris Saint-Germain, Sevilla, Liverpool, Napoli, Sporting and CSKA Moscow”.
Replace them by “Slavia Prague, Viitorul Constanta, FC Salzburg, Rijeka, Legia Warsaw, BATE Borisov, Malmo, Rosenborg, Hapoel Beer-Sheva, FC Copenhagen, Partizan Belgrade, Astana, Ludogorets and Zilina”, and the money doesn’t exist anymore!

Instead of UEFA having 1.275M€ of prizes to distribute for the 32 CL participants, they’d have 300M€, maybe 400M€.
And then “participation prize” would be 4 or 5M€ only, instead of the current 12 or 15M€.

You can’t change ONE feature (14 “giants” out and 14 “domestic league first placed teams” in) and assume that EVERYTHING ELSE would remain the same!

[Duketown]

No.
Max. 3 fixed spots for Big 4 leagues and those 6 spots out of direct access in favour of best 2 clubs of best 4 ranked countries (currently France, Portugal, Russia and Belgium) and the rest of the lower ranked domestic champions battle with subtoppers from bigger leagues.

[Overgame]

What will happen if champions from lower ranked countries will have the opportunity to play more Champions League games? They will earn more money which will give them an opportunity to become a bit more competitive for group stage matches. Now some of that prize money goes automatically to the clubs that finish 2nd, 3rd or 4th in a lot of countries. They should be the ones that should play qualifiers to enter the group stage.

Last year I made the comparaison between the [TV rights for the CL from the top 5 leagues vs the TV rights of a few nations.

Long story short : the deals from the 7 direct spots outisde the top 5 is lower than the deal of the lowest top 5 deal. So no, they won't get "more money".

[Dragonite]

Congratulations Feyenoord for winning one match!




And congratulations Shakhtar Donetsk for winning their match, not needing Feyenoord’s help to advance from the group stages!




It seems that this round generated two memorable press conferences, one by the winner, Paulo Fonseca, disguised as Zorro.


And the other by the loser Maurizio Sarri that insulted a journalist, for asking him if this was a failure…

So no, Maurizio, this wasn’t a failure!
You are an awesome coach.
And if you don’t go further than the EL last 32, just like in 2015/2016 the last time that you were there, don’t worry about that either, because you’re still an awesome coach.
Keep up the good work!

I think that this will be Feyenoord’s worst ever CL campaign and they’ll wish they’d never returned. Their score will probably be lower than 5 points, and they may not even win a single match. But who knows, perhaps they can take advantage of Paulo Fonseca’s incompetence. Although that’s actually the most they can do, I don’t see them getting anything else.

Prediction
1. Napoli
2. Manchester City
3. Shakhtar Donetsk
4. Feyenoord

Maurizio may be an awesome coach, but I’m an awful predictor.
I thought that Feyenoord’s best chance would be thanks to Paulo Fonseca’s incompetence, but it was actually thanks to Sarri’s awesomeness.

[og2002gr]

Prediction:
1. Manchester City 70%
2. Napoli 65%
3. Shakhtar 35%
4. Feyenoord 30%

This is a group I think schedule factor decided the winners rather than the quality of the teams.

Manchester City is really impressive so far.
They destroyed anyone in their passage and took a very comfortable first place.
They are not a big CL team yet, but they are becoming one, after 5/5 qualification in the last 5 seasons and top8 place in Club ranking.
Yet, being a knock-outs regular or a title-contenter/giant is a huge road to cover.

Shakhtar: they could be another "fraud" pot1 team, since their co-efficients place them closer to Pot 3 than Pot 1.
Still, despite their bad draws, they keep bringing great results. They eliminated Chelsea in 2012, Athletic Club in 2014, and now Napoli.
I like comparing them with Benfica. Shakhtar has 4/12 qualifications. Benfica has a slightly better record 4/11.
If Shakhtar was always granted Pot1 spots with easier draws, while Benfica Pot2 with more difficult draws, they gap would be bigger in Shakhtar's favor.

Napoli: even if they were harmed by the schedule, I expected bigger resistance against Manchester City, better attitude against Feyenoord in the last MD, and more clever play in the starting game that costed them the qualification.
I consider them as one of the most quality teams in EL, but I doubt they will pay any attention there.
Probably they will miss both Serie A title and the chance to have a memorable euripean campaign.
At least they should try and earn a Pot2 status.

Feyenoord: while Dutch football is in crisis, few things could be expected from a team returning in the highest level after many many years.
Still they gave everything to please their great fans and honor their name, finishing the season with a win.
Their numbers in previous 5 MDs is something to forget. Quickly.

[Dragonite]

Shakhtar: they could be another "fraud" pot1 team, since their co-efficients place them closer to Pot 3 than Pot 1.
Still, despite their bad draws, they keep bringing great results. They eliminated Chelsea in 2012, Athletic Club in 2014, and now Napoli.
I like comparing them with Benfica. Shakhtar has 4/12 qualifications. Benfica has a slightly better record 4/11.
If Shakhtar was always granted Pot1 spots with easier draws, while Benfica Pot2 with more difficult draws, they gap would be bigger in Shakhtar's favor.

So, Benfica should be ashamed to, in 4 EL campaigns, have two beaten finalist, one semifinalist and one quarter finalist record, while Shakhtar should be proud that, in 4 EL campaigns, they couldn’t progress from the last 32 round thrice and only reached the semifinals once.
Is that what you’re saying?


There’s no need to imagine anything here.
Shakhtar lost to Fulham in 2010, lost to Viktoria Plzen in 2014, and lost to Celta de Vigo in 2017.
The only time they survived the last 32 round was against Schalke 04 in 2016.
So, 25% reaching the EL last 16 round.

Benfica, in the same round, eliminated Hertha Berlin in 2010, Stuttgart in 2011, Bayer Leverkusen in 2012 and PAOK in 2013.

Shakhtar in its 8 EL last 32 matches: 2-3-3 (1 PPG)
Benfica in its 8 EL last 32 matches: 7-1-0 (2.75 PPG)

Should Benfica be ashamed of its 100% success rate, 2.75 PPG, because having a 25% success rate with a 1 PPG would be much cooler?!


The only thing that they should be ashamed of is of losing games, not of winning them.

[og2002gr]

Dragonite no need to spend your time trying to convinve me that Benfica is more successful in Europa League than Shakhtar recently..
I already agree

Here, I am talking about Champions League records