Firnen wrote: ↑Fri Jul 10, 2020 12:14
2nd place of Greece will be determined in courtrooms, after the end of the League.
That is because CAS reached is verdict for the PAOK-Xanthi case, and the verdict is that...the case needs to be tried again from the Appeal Board of the Federation, and until then PAOK gets back the 7 points.
After the Appeal Board re-tries the case and reaches a decision, there will be...new appeals to CAS by Olympiacos (if PAOK is not punished with relegation) or PAOK (if the Appeal Board decides to punish them with points deduction or relegation).
The way I see the time restraints for UEFA's list, there is a good chace that the penalties are applied next year instead of this one.
@Firnen as I was born and raised in The Netherlands and not aware of all legal issues in Greece: isn’t there a chamber of commerce (or .......?) in Greece that could provide information whether or not someone owns a company or in this case a club? It should be easy to analyse this situation, shouldn’t it? If Savvidis owns Xanthi there must be evidence somewhere and that evidence must be revealed. And punishment should be given as the rules are made for these situation (and changed during the season as I read). But as a PAOK-fan (and someone with a degree in law) I do not comprehend what is happening right now and why evidence is not shown by anyone (ladies and gentlemen here we have exhibit A, taadaa). Thanks in advance for the information.
P.S. If Savvidis owns Xanthi (could be, people ranked #1511 at Forbes in general aren’t saints) I would accept the punishment without whining. I would be embarressed too, of course, for such stupidity.
PAOK is not a club. PAOK is a cultural phenomenon.
Firnen wrote: ↑Fri Jul 10, 2020 12:14
2nd place of Greece will be determined in courtrooms, after the end of the League.
That is because CAS reached is verdict for the PAOK-Xanthi case, and the verdict is that...the case needs to be tried again from the Appeal Board of the Federation, and until then PAOK gets back the 7 points.
After the Appeal Board re-tries the case and reaches a decision, there will be...new appeals to CAS by Olympiacos (if PAOK is not punished with relegation) or PAOK (if the Appeal Board decides to punish them with points deduction or relegation).
The way I see the time restraints for UEFA's list, there is a good chace that the penalties are applied next year instead of this one.
@Firnen as I was born and raised in The Netherlands and not aware of all legal issues in Greece: isn’t there a chamber of commerce (or .......?) in Greece that could provide information whether or not someone owns a company or in this case a club? It should be easy to analyse this situation, shouldn’t it? If Savvidis owns Xanthi there must be evidence somewhere and that evidence must be revealed. And punishment should be given as the rules are made for these situation (and changed during the season as I read). But as a PAOK-fan (and someone with a degree in law) I do not comprehend what is happening right now and why evidence is not shown by anyone (ladies and gentlemen here we have exhibit A, taadaa). Thanks in advance for the information.
P.S. If Savvidis owns Xanthi (could be, people ranked #1511 at Forbes in general aren’t saints) I would accept the punishment without whining. I would be embarressed too, of course, for such stupidity.
As I understand, the problem relies on that Xanthi is not owned by Savvidis himself (he is not so stupid) but by a company that has one of his relatives appointed as owner. So Savvidis and PAOK say that they don't have anything to deal with Xanthi, while most people don't believe that this is just a coincidence.
NederPAOKtzis wrote: ↑Fri Jul 10, 2020 15:05This year your team had at least 10 penalties. Macheda scored 6, Chatzigiovannis 4. Not bad, but I get your point.
Number of penalties tells nothing.
If you are rewarded 10 penalties when you deserve 5 means you are helped.
If you are rewarded 10 penalties when you deserve 20 means you are robbed.
NederPAOKtzis wrote: ↑Fri Jul 10, 2020 15:05BTW, like your keeper, Sokratis Dioudis, very much. A wall that denied PAOK a lot of goals, especially in Athens in the play offs. Think he should have a chance in the National team.
I am not sure about his quality yet. He has made tragic mistakes and costed points (ex. vs OFI, Aris), but lately he is in top form. Against PAOK it was his best game.
I think he is improving and he will be the first choice for next season.
rpo.castro wrote: ↑Fri Jul 10, 2020 16:33As I understand, the problem relies on that Xanthi is not owned by Savvidis himself (he is not so stupid) but by a company that has one of his relatives appointed as owner. So Savvidis and PAOK say that they don't have anything to deal with Xanthi, while most people don't believe that this is just a coincidence.
Everybody knows who owns whom in Greek Football. The problem is that it is not so easy to prove it in courts (mafia owners are not idiots and justice system is very corrupted). One easy way is to see how every team votes when the Federation takes decisions about various matters AND how the fans react against their own club owners.
Concerning the stadium: bureaucracy and political games are so strong that you can't build anything unless you rule the government or the underground.
Olympiacos in 2004, AEK now, PAOK in the future used their cards very well and were/are/will have their "present".
Panathinaikos is always so weak in the backround that everyone puts obstacles despite numerous different attempts. Recently, it seems that current PAO owner (who is an Olympiacos fan) is close to agreement with government to build a stadium in an area against the will of most PAO fans, since the location is closer to..Olympiacos area rather Panathinaikos land (Athens)
The funniest thing of the CAS verdict is, that PAOK gets back the 7 points until the re-trial of the case on the appeal board, but Xanthi does not because they had not appealed to CAS.
Championship group:
OFI 0–1 Aris and Aris will probably finish fifth (no real advantage over the sixth position).
Relegation group:
Atromitos and Asteras Tripolis were much better than the other clubs in the relegation group.
Xanthi 1–2 Asteras Tripolis and Panionios 0–2 Panaitolikos, so Panionios can finish at the relegation play-off position at best. Huge win for Panaitolikos and they should be safe. Panaitolikos was at positions 13-14 since MD3 of the regular season, but they ‘pushed’ when it mattered!
Of course, all this, pending the final court decisions...
No undefeated team remaining in Europe, around 1 hour after Ludogorets, Olympiacos had their first defeat as well.
PAOK was more motivated, had more energy and beat 1-0 away an Olympiacos who is appearing more and more unfocused and in pre-season mode. Which would be OK if there was not the crucial Round of 16 match againt Wolves in August.
AEK easily beat 3-1 Panathinaikos away, and remains -3 from PAOK. AEK hosts PAOK in Wednesday.
Of course the final say for 2nd place belongs to the courtrooms.
Aris beat OFI 1-0 away.
In the play-outs, Panionios picked the worst possible game for their 1st defeat, since they lost 0-2 to Panaitolikos. Xanthi kicked the chance away though, and lost 1-2 to Asteras, so the battle between Xanthi and Panionios will end in the last MD.
Double fiasco for Olympiacos against PAOK the last few days.
First PAOK beat Olym in the courtrooms, since CAS decided to return the 7 points to PAOK. Of course now it is too late since the title has gone. At least PAOK has the right to try and prove their innocence (?).
After that, PAOK beat Oly on the pitch, preventing them from a historical record.
Lately, Olympiacos is far from good and looks out of form. But this is the right time to be bad and start building a new form approaching the crucial games.
PAOK psychology was boosted after the court's win and played in higher rythm to take the precious 10 points (7+3) that put them ahead in the CL QR race.
PAO was robbed again against AEK. After having 3 goals cancelled because VAR saw .. contact, it is scandalous conceding the 2nd goal after a clear foul from Oliveira. What's the point of having referees AND VAR, if the only criteria applied is wether if it is for/against PAO? Ridiculous.
Tomorrow PAOK and AEK are going to solve their matters for 2nd place.
At the same time we are watching PAOK and Olympiacos bullying (again) the Appeal Committee.
First the committee yielded to Oly's pressure and refused to check the situation, punishing PAOK without a trial.
Now that CAS ridiculised them and rejected their decision, they yield to PAOK's pressure and 2 members already resigned.
These two are like cancer for greek football, damaging all the magic.
4 judges from the Appeal Board have resigned after PAOK's daily attacks against them through all their media and 1 refused to take the place of one of the ones who resigned. 1 of the judges who resigned mentioned threats against his life. Very...coincidentally, the only one not to have resigned is the one that claimed that PAOK and Xanthi are innocent at the initial trial !
Until the Appeal Board manages to find enough judges to convene, the trial is put on hold, so it is very probable now that the penalties will be applied for next year and not this year.
PAOK is a clear favourite for 2nd place, bullying judges worked, if this was their goal.
"...
Both Olympiacos and PAOK requested the annulment of the HFF AC decision, Olympiacos asking
for harsher sanctions to be imposed on PAOK and Xanthi FC, and PAOK requesting that no sanction
be imposed on it.
....
The CAS Panel has ordered that the seven-point deduction imposed on PAOK be set aside and that the
matter be referred back to the HFF AC for adjudication. Since Xanthi FC did not appeal the sevenpoint deduction imposed on it, this sanction is not set aside
...
As a
consequence, both appeals have been partially upheld and the matter is referred back to the previous
instance, i.e. the HFF AC.
..."
PAOK will be 99% 2nd since they play Aris at home in the last MD while AEK plays Olympiacos away, and only a win for AEK and a loss of PAOK can overturn the standings.
Of course, all this is pending the Appeal Board decision. We are yet to know when the trial will take place since there are no judges right now (mysteriously quitting as I said earlier...).
EDIT : It appears that 11 PAOK players had expired health cards, thus should not have been allowed to play. AEK can file an appeal and win the match 3-0 !
Panathinaikos finished fourth, Aris fifth and OFI sixth. This is the best finishing position for Pana since 2016-17 season… Ten years have passed since the last time that Pana was champion (2009-10)... Let’s see next season if we will get some nice european matches again!
Again, just one but very common picture to describe Panathinaikos situation:
Everyone trying to understand how the referee saw 2 ridiculous penalties in 10 minutes against Panathinaikos. Fortunately, the young GK stopped the first, while VAR stopped the 2nd.
Panathinaikos has no target (due to european ban), uses U19 players and do no harm to anynone. So there is not a single reason for referees' behaviour. I start thinking that there is a secret bonus for every decision against PAO.
Meanwhile, next season is going to be the worst one for Greek teams. AEK-PAOK-Aris-OFI are horrible, and I am afraid they will hardly beat any opponent.
We are still waiting for AEK to decide if they will file an appeal.
If they do, they win the match 3-0 and PAOK gets -3.
There would normally be no reason not to appeal the decision, they get 2nd place and CL Qualyfing BUT in the magic world of Greek football backstage, there is a reason not to do that : AEK and PAOK owers are "frenemies", united against their common enemy, Olympiacos' owner. If AEK does not appeal, the only explanation is a backstage deal.
weaker leagues 
Reminds me how much I have missed some home-made baklava!
