UEFA Nations League 2022/23

[amenina]

Here is another article from the Italian media about Japan wanting to join the UEFA Nations League (although probably they copied the contents from the Japanese media). Japan would potentially play their home matches in Dusseldorf.

https://www.calciomercato.com/news/il-g ... ague-13612

[Lorric]

Japan should not be allowed to just dip in and use it as a vehicle to prepare for the World Cup. You come in, you stay in! Asian teams are quite busy with a long qualifying campaign, Asian Cup and regional tournaments. Could they stay in?

And if we let them in, then you open the can of worms. If we let them in, why aren't we letting in the Asian champ, Qatar? Why aren't we letting in the top ranked Asian team, Iran?

[Meister Ether]

At the end, you stick to watch these unesessary matches without any relevance and even comment on them.

Because I would have watched it also if it was a friendly. It was against England, at Wembley, of course I watch this if there is nothing else, regardless of the competition. What an incredible strange conclusion.

Sorry for this late response. (Had been a rather busy week)
To me, a competition is made from all the matches. Someone calling a whole competition as "unnesccessary" and "without any relevance", I would assume that person not being interested in watching any minute.
A dead rubber involving the current German NT with the other side in a rather bad shape as well is pretty low on my priority list in general - even if it's at Wembley vs England.
I'm satisfied by watching some highlight clips later then.
But to each their own and after all, it's just football.

[Firnen]

Japan should not be allowed to just dip in and use it as a vehicle to prepare for the World Cup. You come in, you stay in! Asian teams are quite busy with a long qualifying campaign, Asian Cup and regional tournaments. Could they stay in?

And if we let them in, then you open the can of worms. If we let them in, why aren't we letting in the Asian champ, Qatar? Why aren't we letting in the top ranked Asian team, Iran?

Because we like Japan way more than Iran in Europe. It's that simple.

[Lorric]

Japan should not be allowed to just dip in and use it as a vehicle to prepare for the World Cup. You come in, you stay in! Asian teams are quite busy with a long qualifying campaign, Asian Cup and regional tournaments. Could they stay in?

And if we let them in, then you open the can of worms. If we let them in, why aren't we letting in the Asian champ, Qatar? Why aren't we letting in the top ranked Asian team, Iran?

Because we like Japan way more than Iran in Europe. It's that simple.

I think sporting merit should be top consideration. After a commitment to stay. I'm okay with something like the Asian champ having a spot and if they don't retain, the new champ takes over where they left off. But teams just dipping in and out ruins it. Especially if they're taking spots higher than they deserve. Japan via FIFA rankings would just about merit starting in League A, but if they ended up with 16 UEFA teams above them, they should have to start in League B.

[Firnen]

Japan should not be allowed to just dip in and use it as a vehicle to prepare for the World Cup. You come in, you stay in! Asian teams are quite busy with a long qualifying campaign, Asian Cup and regional tournaments. Could they stay in?

And if we let them in, then you open the can of worms. If we let them in, why aren't we letting in the Asian champ, Qatar? Why aren't we letting in the top ranked Asian team, Iran?

Because we like Japan way more than Iran in Europe. It's that simple.

I think sporting merit should be top consideration. After a commitment to stay. I'm okay with something like the Asian champ having a spot and if they don't retain, the new champ takes over where they left off. But teams just dipping in and out ruins it. Especially if they're taking spots higher than they deserve. Japan via FIFA rankings would just about merit starting in League A, but if they ended up with 16 UEFA teams above them, they should have to start in League B.

I think you care about the Nations League more than UEFA themselves.

[Lorric]

Because we like Japan way more than Iran in Europe. It's that simple.

I think sporting merit should be top consideration. After a commitment to stay. I'm okay with something like the Asian champ having a spot and if they don't retain, the new champ takes over where they left off. But teams just dipping in and out ruins it. Especially if they're taking spots higher than they deserve. Japan via FIFA rankings would just about merit starting in League A, but if they ended up with 16 UEFA teams above them, they should have to start in League B.

I think you care about the Nations League more than UEFA themselves.

I do like it a lot. Even if it's damaging England right now. No Nations League, we'd be in pot 1, near the top of it, for the Euro draw. But UEFA created it, and then made it better for the second edition, and tied it inextricably into qualifying for Euros and even had it play a role in qualifying for World Cups, so I think they care about it a lot.

[Meister Ether]

As for 2024/25, I also expect UEFA will invite guest teams, since this has been discussed in the media for a while. They can add the South American teams and/or the 3 North American World Cup hosts.

Even if South America keeps the 18-match qualifying format, they can possibly still squeeze the UNL in if they start qualifying early. They can play 8 matches in September, October, November 2023 and March 2024 (I expect Copa America in June 2024), and the other 10 matches in 2025.

Having the American WC hosts included would mean they had to play the alleged 2024-25 CONCACAF Nations League matches not in autumn 2024.
Asuming all three of them stay in League A (without some major upsets in March could prevent), they could probably move them to June 2024 and March 2025 (Finals in June 2025), leaving room for the final rounds of CONCACAF's WC qualifiers to be played in the autumn windows.

Regarding the CONMEBOL sides, your proposal would leave no room for NL Finals in June 2025 should any of them qualify. So some shift would be necessary:
A) matches for June 2025 could be moved to June 2024 just before the Copa América, or
B) put them as WCQ kick-offs to June 2023, that window is still unoccupied, or
C) play the Final Four additionaly in June 2025 - to avoid too much travel, it should to be staged in South America then.
Option B the best for me. Probably also using option A to do away with the 8 matches in autumn 2023 as I prefer only two matches a window when involving home-away travel.

For my prefered format for an enlarged 2024-25 Nations League, see the next post.

[Meister Ether]

Adding all CONMEBOL teams and the 2026 WC host to the NL in 2024, I would do it like this:

NL A - 32 teams - 8 groups of 4 - 6 matches
group winners advance to Final Eight in June, bottom teams enter play-out brackets*
Pot 1: CRO, ITA, ESP, NED (1st A) + BRA, ARG, MEX, URU (top4 American sides by FIFA ranking)
Pot 2: DEN, HUN, POR, BEL (2nd A) + USA, COL, PER, CHI (next 4)
Pot 3: GER, FRA, SUI, POL (3rd A) + BIH, SRB, ISR, SCO (1st B)
Pot 4: ENG , WAL, AUT, CZE (4th A) + CAN, ECU, PAR, VEN (next 4)

Btw, more fairness esp. to the smaller countries from South America who imho lack an adequate diaspora in Europe (anyone better informed shall feel free to correct):
American sides could indeed play their home matches on their own turf if exactly two of them were to be drawn in one (two all-UEFA groups then) and a match schedule like this:
Sep: 4x America vs Europe, Oct: all intra-continental matches, Nov: 4x Europe vs America

NL B - 16 teams - 4 groups of 4 - 6 matches
group winners promote, runners-up promotion play-offs bottom teams relegate or enter play-out*
Pot 1: UKR, NOR, ISL, FIN (2nd B) - Pot 2: SLN, IRL, ALB, MNE (3rd B)
Pot 3: GEO, TRK, GRE, KAZ (1st C) - Pot 4: SWE, ROM, ARM (4th B) + BOL (last SA/NA team, instead of RUS)

NL C - 12 teams - 4 groups of 3 - 4 matches (Sep+Oct) + 2 PO matches (Nov)
GW and RU -> promotion play-off, bottom -> play-out
Pot 1: LUX, AZE, BUL, KOS (2nd C) - Pot 2: FAR, NMD, SVK, NIR (3rd C)
Pot 3 w/o RUS: EST, LAT (1st D) + CYP/GIB winners, BLR/LIT winners (4th C)
Pot 3 incl. RUS: EST, LAT (1st D) + RUS + final winners of play-outs (single leg, SF + F)

NL D - 7/8 teams (depending on Russia's participation)- single round-robin or 2 groups of 4 - 6 matches
GW+RU or both group winners promote
Pots (if 2 groups) according to 2022-23 Nations League Overall ranking.

Any play-outs to be played in March, September or October 2025 as single-leg tournaments if only one team to go down.

*As Canada, Mexico and the USA would probably leave after that edition, another restructure would be necessary. Like:
New League A - 16 teams: 16 best NL A teams without NAFU
New League B - 16 teams: 12 next NL A teams w/o NAFU + 4 NL B winners
New League C - 16 teams: worst NL A team w/o NAFU + 11 best NL B teams + 4 NL C winners
New League D - 12 teams: worst NL B team + 7 next NL C teams + 4 better NL D teams
New League E - 5 teams: worst NL C team + 4 worse NL D teams
All double round-robin groups, NL E to start in June already, NL D in essence same as NL C of the previous edition.

To replace the NAFU teams, UEFA+CONMEBOL could invite 3 guests tfrom the other confederations or even make it a permanent pattern with champions from CAF (most recent AfCoN winners), CONCACAF (most recent Gold Cup winners) and AFC/OFC (alternate between recent Asian Cup winners and the winners of an Asian Cup runners-up/OFC champions play-off), resulting in a
"Confederations Cup 2.0 - powered by UEFA and CONMEBOL"
Of course each confederation's WC qualifers might need certain adjustments like byes or odd numbered groups for NL participants.

[amenina]

Japan should not be allowed to just dip in and use it as a vehicle to prepare for the World Cup. You come in, you stay in! Asian teams are quite busy with a long qualifying campaign, Asian Cup and regional tournaments. Could they stay in?

And if we let them in, then you open the can of worms. If we let them in, why aren't we letting in the Asian champ, Qatar? Why aren't we letting in the top ranked Asian team, Iran?

Because we like Japan way more than Iran in Europe. It's that simple.

I think sporting merit should be top consideration. After a commitment to stay. I'm okay with something like the Asian champ having a spot and if they don't retain, the new champ takes over where they left off. But teams just dipping in and out ruins it. Especially if they're taking spots higher than they deserve. Japan via FIFA rankings would just about merit starting in League A, but if they ended up with 16 UEFA teams above them, they should have to start in League B.

Other continental competitions, such as Copa America and CONCACAF Gold Cup have invited guest teams before.

Copa America have invited North American teams and Asian teams on a team-by-team basis. In 2016, the tournament was co-organized with CONCACAF, so there was a qualifying tournament for all CONCACAF teams (apart from USA and Mexico which qualified automatically).

CONCACAF Gold Cup have also invited many teams, including Qatar for 2021 and 2023.

Currently there is a cooperation agreement between UEFA and CONMEBOL (to counter FIFA's influence). If UEFA allows CONMEBOL teams to play in the Nations League, they will add all 10 teams, even Venezuela which is the weakest and unpopular with countries such as UK.

But if they invite other countries, they will likely invite teams which are strong, popular, and financially viable. So countries such as Japan and USA are always going to be more likely to be chosen ahead of Iran and Costa Rica.

I think UEFA would also prefer their guest teams to commit to more than one season of UNL, so that they have to worry about relegation and have something to play for. The 2026-27 edition is right after the World Cup, so a lot of the teams should not have too much trouble playing in it too.

[amenina]

As for 2024/25, I also expect UEFA will invite guest teams, since this has been discussed in the media for a while. They can add the South American teams and/or the 3 North American World Cup hosts.

Even if South America keeps the 18-match qualifying format, they can possibly still squeeze the UNL in if they start qualifying early. They can play 8 matches in September, October, November 2023 and March 2024 (I expect Copa America in June 2024), and the other 10 matches in 2025.

Having the American WC hosts included would mean they had to play the alleged 2024-25 CONCACAF Nations League matches not in autumn 2024.
Asuming all three of them stay in League A (without some major upsets in March could prevent), they could probably move them to June 2024 and March 2025 (Finals in June 2025), leaving room for the final rounds of CONCACAF's WC qualifiers to be played in the autumn windows.

Regarding the CONMEBOL sides, your proposal would leave no room for NL Finals in June 2025 should any of them qualify. So some shift would be necessary:
A) matches for June 2025 could be moved to June 2024 just before the Copa América, or
B) put them as WCQ kick-offs to June 2023, that window is still unoccupied, or
C) play the Final Four additionaly in June 2025 - to avoid too much travel, it should to be staged in South America then.
Option B the best for me. Probably also using option A to do away with the 8 matches in autumn 2023 as I prefer only two matches a window when involving home-away travel.

For my prefered format for an enlarged 2024-25 Nations League, see the next post.

I forgot about the UNL finals possibly in June 2025. Thanks.

In that case, I think CONMEBOL can play WCQ in June 2024, before Copa America. Teams will travel to South America for the tournament, so it makes sense to play 2 rounds prior to it. And there were WCQ in June 2021 also before Copa America.

For CONCACAF, I suppose there will be another edition of CNL and WCQ before the end of 2025, but the schedule and WCQ format is not yet known.

For the first edition of CNL, the group stage was played in 2019, and the finals were originally to be played in June 2020, but had to be postponed to June 2021 due to COVID.

For the second edition of CNL, because of the delays, it could only start after the more important 2022 WCQ was finished, so the group stage is played in 2022-23, and the finals are scheduled to be played in 2023.

We don't know when the third edition of CNL will start or finish, but could it be played in 2023-24? I always thought the idea was to crown a CONCACAF "champion" every year. In even years, there is the CNL champion, and in odd years, there is the Gold Cup champion.

As for WCQ, I will use a similar format as 2022. The first round will consist of 30 teams, divided into 6 groups of 5 teams. The groups will play a single round-robin, so each team plays 4 matches (2 home and 2 away), and this can be played in 2 windows. The group winners advance to the final round (no need for the second round play-offs this time).

The final round (Octagonal) will consist of the 2 teams which receive a bye (Costa Rica and Panama based on FIFA rankings) and the 6 first round group winners. They play double round-robin for a total of 14 matches.

So here is the schedule:
September, October, November 2023: CNL group stage
March 2024: WCQ 1st round (window 1)
June 2024: CNL finals
September 2024: WCQ 1st round (window 2)
October, November 2024: WCQ final round (4 matches)
2025: WCQ final round (10 matches)

Since the 3 WC hosts are not playing WCQ, they can play UNL matches in September, October, November 2024, and potentially the finals in June 2025.

[amenina]

To replace the NAFU teams, UEFA+CONMEBOL could invite 3 guests tfrom the other confederations or even make it a permanent pattern with champions from CAF (most recent AfCoN winners), CONCACAF (most recent Gold Cup winners) and AFC/OFC (alternate between recent Asian Cup winners and the winners of an Asian Cup runners-up/OFC champions play-off), resulting in a
"Confederations Cup 2.0 - powered by UEFA and CONMEBOL"
Of course each confederation's WC qualifers might need certain adjustments like byes or odd numbered groups for NL participants.

It is a nice proposal.

For Africa, currently AFCON are played every two years, so African teams have to play WCQ (every 4 years) and AFCON-Q (every 2 years). Unless they move to having AFCON every 4 years, it is quite difficult for African teams to play in an outside competition. But I can see teams like Morocco wanting to play UNL given the geography and culture.

For Asia, obviously Japan, South Korea and Australia are strong, popular and financially attractive for UEFA to invite. Teams like China, Qatar and Saudi Arabia have the money, but would be a human-rights PR disaster. And there are teams which are obviously not possible, such as Iran and North Korea (or maybe Russia if they decide to switch to AFC, hehe). There is also the existence of Israel in UEFA, which means Middle Eastern teams most likely won't join.

For North America, US, Mexico and Canada are huge TV markets so it would be great for UEFA if they play UNL. But not so much for the likes of Costa Rica and Jamaica. They also have their own version of CONCACAF Nations League. Maybe they will be combination of the two in the future?

For Oceania, the only candidate is New Zealand. With them almost guaranteed a spot in future WCs, they actually need a lot of practice. I think them playing in League B or League C would make sense.

[amirbachar]

To replace the NAFU teams, UEFA+CONMEBOL could invite 3 guests tfrom the other confederations or even make it a permanent pattern with champions from CAF (most recent AfCoN winners), CONCACAF (most recent Gold Cup winners) and AFC/OFC (alternate between recent Asian Cup winners and the winners of an Asian Cup runners-up/OFC champions play-off), resulting in a
"Confederations Cup 2.0 - powered by UEFA and CONMEBOL"
Of course each confederation's WC qualifers might need certain adjustments like byes or odd numbered groups for NL participants.

It is a nice proposal.

For Africa, currently AFCON are played every two years, so African teams have to play WCQ (every 4 years) and AFCON-Q (every 2 years). Unless they move to having AFCON every 4 years, it is quite difficult for African teams to play in an outside competition. But I can see teams like Morocco wanting to play UNL given the geography and culture.

For Asia, obviously Japan, South Korea and Australia are strong, popular and financially attractive for UEFA to invite. Teams like China, Qatar and Saudi Arabia have the money, but would be a human-rights PR disaster. And there are teams which are obviously not possible, such as Iran and North Korea (or maybe Russia if they decide to switch to AFC, hehe). There is also the existence of Israel in UEFA, which means Middle Eastern teams most likely won't join.

For North America, US, Mexico and Canada are huge TV markets so it would be great for UEFA if they play UNL. But not so much for the likes of Costa Rica and Jamaica. They also have their own version of CONCACAF Nations League. Maybe they will be combination of the two in the future?

For Oceania, the only candidate is New Zealand. With them almost guaranteed a spot in future WCs, they actually need a lot of practice. I think them playing in League B or League C would make sense.

Qatar and Emirates have recently made a peace pact with Israel, so no problem there

[Mr1Mr]

Zbigniew Boniek claims in interview with Polish journalist, that there will be a reform of Nations League so that teams from 2nd place in Division A also played in Nations League Finals. I don't know more details

[Diouf]

I'm guessing it's in this interview: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4htYs-Gljc4

So perhaps some of the Polish- speaking members can help out