New formats for UEFA men’s national team competitions

[amenina]

Since people are posting their opinions of this new format on different topics, maybe we can centralise the debate here.

Here is the UEFA article:

https://www.uefa.com/insideuefa/mediase ... tions-app/

UEFA Nations League

The UEFA Nations League will be expanded with a new knock-out round to be played in March, thereby creating continuity between the group phase ending in November and the Finals played in June.

League A group winners and runners-up will participate in home-and-away quarter-finals, with the winners of these ties qualifying for the Final Four.

The 3rd-ranked of League A and the runners-up of League B, as well as the 3rd-ranked of League B and the runners-up of League C will play a home-and-away promotion/relegation play-off.

The expansion of the UEFA Nations League into the International Match Calendar window of March will only concern a selected number of teams and the remaining teams will already be available to start the European Qualifiers.

European Qualifiers

The new format of the European Qualifiers for UEFA EURO or the FIFA World Cup will be more consolidated, with teams being drawn in 12 groups of four and five teams, consequently revitalising the competition by making it less predictable and more dynamic.

With the traditional home-and-away matches and “all play all” principles retained, this simple format will offer more competitive groups at all levels.

Teams drawn in groups of five will kick off the qualifiers in March, or in June if they are still competing in the UEFA Nations League quarter-finals or are involved in promotion/relegation matches. Teams drawn in groups of four will start their campaigns in September.

The group-winners of the European Qualifiers will qualify directly for the UEFA EURO or the FIFA World Cup, whereas the second-placed teams will either qualify directly or participate in play-off matches (together with UEFA Nations League teams for qualification to the UEFA EURO). A visual description of the qualification modus can be found here.

No change has been proposed for the UEFA EURO final tournament, which will still feature 24 teams.

The new format will be implemented after UEFA EURO 2024.

Here is the UEFA graphic:

https://editorial.uefa.com/resources/02 ... itions.pdf

[Lorric]

Sure. Then I'll copy my post in here too:

I can't fault UEFA for anything from a business standpoint, I'm sure all changes will be beneficial from that standpoint.

Overall as a package, I'm happy to accept it but I don't like everything.

The Nations League, this is a big improvement imo. Now every position has a considerable difference to it and is worth fighting for. 4th, you go down. 3rd, you fight for survival. 2nd you fight for promotion. 1st you get promoted. I would expect 1st in League A to be granted the second leg at home. I also hope 3rd place teams are granted the second leg at home. Since those teams are a couple of places above the 2nds from below, I think the seconds should have to do a little more than simply win a fair contest to show they deserve to go up. These contests should also be more entertaining to watch than your average qualifier. Never mind the quarter finals for the cup. I think it'll be brilliant to see top teams clashing in home and away KO games.

But it comes with a price. I can't fault UEFA for wanting to shake up Euro qualifying, I've seen so many people complain about UEFA qualifying being boring now with 24 teams and while I personally disagree, there are now three UEFA tournaments instead of one to go for in a 4 year cycle, and I'm not going to have much sympathy for a team which can't make the cut for a 24 team tournament. Even though I would prefer more games, not less, to qualify teams. The one real problem I have is the World Cup. No. You should not be making WCQ unpredictable, and if I could, I'd make the Nations League alternate between current format and new format to allow WCQ years to remain the same. You should be striving to ensure the finest teams go to the World Cup. It's only every four years, and you might do everything right as a player only to be on the shelf when it's World Cup time. Not to mention the battle for spots, which UEFA sadly doesn't seem to care about and lets all the other confederations walk all over us.

The devil is in the detail, and they haven't shown us how many groups there will be. Could very easily be that a team could do everything right, but they got France in their group, so then they have to beat two teams in single leg playoffs as the away team. In fact I think it will be that way, because they said Nations League teams will be involved in the playoffs and we already have ten groups and we only have 16 slots. Even if it was 12 groups, that could easily be 12 teams plus 4 Nations League teams that have to get down to 4 teams. And with less games in the groups, there will probably be more big teams in those playoffs. And if it was more than 12 you'd have to defeat at least 3 teams in playoffs because 13 into 3 doesn't go, even without Nations League teams. So 12 seems the most likely to me, with 16 teams fighting for 4 places. Not sure how it'll work for UEFA qualifying though. Maybe 12 group winners, host, top 4 runners up, 4 playoff winners, and 3 places via Nations League A, B and C. So now suddenly you really want to win your qualifying group even though it's a 24 team tournament.

[Jackson Harrison]

Sure. Then I'll copy my post in here too:

I can't fault UEFA for anything from a business standpoint, I'm sure all changes will be beneficial from that standpoint.

Overall as a package, I'm happy to accept it but I don't like everything.

The Nations League, this is a big improvement imo. Now every position has a considerable difference to it and is worth fighting for. 4th, you go down. 3rd, you fight for survival. 2nd you fight for promotion. 1st you get promoted. I would expect 1st in League A to be granted the second leg at home. I also hope 3rd place teams are granted the second leg at home. Since those teams are a couple of places above the 2nds from below, I think the seconds should have to do a little more than simply win a fair contest to show they deserve to go up. These contests should also be more entertaining to watch than your average qualifier. Never mind the quarter finals for the cup. I think it'll be brilliant to see top teams clashing in home and away KO games.

But it comes with a price. I can't fault UEFA for wanting to shake up Euro qualifying, I've seen so many people complain about UEFA qualifying being boring now with 24 teams and while I personally disagree, there are now three UEFA tournaments instead of one to go for in a 4 year cycle, and I'm not going to have much sympathy for a team which can't make the cut for a 24 team tournament. Even though I would prefer more games, not less, to qualify teams. The one real problem I have is the World Cup. No. You should not be making WCQ unpredictable, and if I could, I'd make the Nations League alternate between current format and new format to allow WCQ years to remain the same. You should be striving to ensure the finest teams go to the World Cup. It's only every four years, and you might do everything right as a player only to be on the shelf when it's World Cup time. Not to mention the battle for spots, which UEFA sadly doesn't seem to care about and lets all the other confederations walk all over us.

The devil is in the detail, and they haven't shown us how many groups there will be. Could very easily be that a team could do everything right, but they got France in their group, so then they have to beat two teams in single leg playoffs as the away team. In fact I think it will be that way, because they said Nations League teams will be involved in the playoffs and we already have ten groups and we only have 16 slots. Even if it was 12 groups, that could easily be 12 teams plus 4 Nations League teams that have to get down to 4 teams. And with less games in the groups, there will probably be more big teams in those playoffs. And if it was more than 12 you'd have to defeat at least 3 teams in playoffs because 13 into 3 doesn't go, even without Nations League teams. So 12 seems the most likely to me, with 16 teams fighting for 4 places. Not sure how it'll work for UEFA qualifying though. Maybe 12 group winners, host, top 4 runners up, 4 playoff winners, and 3 places via Nations League A, B and C. So now suddenly you really want to win your qualifying group even though it's a 24 team tournament.

I can't fault UEFA for anything from a business stndpoint, I'm sure all changes will be beneficial from that standpoint.

Overall as a package, I'm happy to accept it but I don't like everything.

The Nations League, this is a big improvement imo. Now every position has a considerable difference to it and is worth fighting for. 4th, you go down. 3rd, you fight for survival. 2nd you fight for promotion. 1st you get promoted. I would expect 1st in League A to be granted the second leg at home. I also hope 3rd place teams are granted the second leg at home. Since those teams are a couple of places above the 2nds from below, I think the seconds should have to do a little more than simply win a fair contest to show they deserve to go up. These contests should also be more entertaining to watch than your average qualifier. Never mind the quarter finals for the cup. I think it'll be brilliant to see top teams clashing in home and away KO games.

But it comes with a price. I can't fault UEFA for wanting to shake up Euro qualifying, I've seen so many people complain about UEFA qualifying being boring now with 24 teams and while I personally disagree, there are now three UEFA tournaments instead of one to go for in a 4 year cycle, and I'm not going to have much sympathy for a team which can't make the cut for a 24 team tournament. Even though I would prefer more games, not less, to qualify teams. The one real problem I have is the World Cup. No. You should not be making WCQ unpredictable, and if I could, I'd make the Nations League alternate between current format and new format to allow WCQ years to remain the same. You should be striving to ensure the finest teams go to the World Cup. It's only every four years, and you might do everything right as a player only to be on the shelf when it's World Cup time. Not to mention the battle for spots, which UEFA sadly doesn't seem to care about and lets all the other confederations walk all over us.

The devil is in the detail, and they haven't shown us how many groups there will be. Could very easily be that a team could do everything right, but they got France in their group, so then they have to beat two teams in single leg playoffs as the away team. In fact I think it will be that way, because they said Nations League teams will be involved in the playoffs and we already have ten groups and we only have 16 slots. Even if it was 12 groups, that could easily be 12 teams plus 4 Nations League teams that have to get down to 4 teams. And with less games in the groups, there will probably be more big teams in those playoffs. And if it was more than 12 you'd have to defeat at least 3 teams in playoffs because 13 into 3 doesn't go, even without Nations League teams. So 12 seems the most likely to me, with 16 teams fighting for 4 places. Not sure how it'll work for UEFA qualifying though. Maybe 12 group winners, host, top 4 runners up, 4 playoff winners, and 3 places via Nations League A, B and C. So now suddenly you really want to win your qualifying group even though it's a 24 team tournament.

Though the 12 finest ranked teams would be kept apart so they all have a chance to qualify without battling each other.

Would imagine that UNL group winners would play second leg of QF at home but not sure what they'll do about Finals host?

As for play-off I'd expect an open draw?

I'll do likewise.

[amenina]

I think most of us are more concerned about the format of the qualifiers (especially for World Cup) than the Nations League.

So assuming all 55 teams enter, it will be 7 groups of 5 teams and 5 groups of 4 teams.

Now there are 8 teams playing in League A quarter-finals in March, and if they win, have to play in the Nations League finals in June.

My first question is:

If a team reaches the Nations League finals and are drawn into a group of five teams, they have to play 4 NL matches and 8 WCQ matches, which is impossible to fit into the current schedule.

So what is the solution?

Does that mean all 8 Nations League quarter-finalists are drawn into groups of 4 teams? This can be impossible due to seeding, as a majority of those eight teams are likely to be among the strongest 12 teams and seeded in Pot 1.

Does that mean they also have to play qualifiers in June if they are drawn into a group of 5 teams? It is possible if there is an extended window in June which allows them to play 4 matches. But that would mean teams may not take the Nations League finals seriously. Of course they can first play the qualifiers first, followed by the Nations League finals.

Or do they play all their qualifiers starting from September? For example if they play three qualifiers in each window. But this would put these teams at a disadvantage.

A possibility is that the four teams which reach the Nations League finals are slotted into a group of four teams (similar to what they are doing now). But we don’t know which teams they are until after the matches in March, after the WCQ draw has happened.

If they put an empty slot which is only decided after the matches in March. Let’s say winner of Nations League quarter-final 1 is put into Group 1 with 4 teams, and the loser is put into another group. Problem is if Group 1 is actually a tougher group, teams may have incentive to lose the Nations League quarter-final.

[Lorric]

Now you really don't want to finish last in League A. England were in pot B but will still qualify for Euro 2024 as runner up. That is no longer a guarantee for Euro 2028.

@amenina I would predict they'd simply leave 8 slots blank. Following the quarter finals, the teams would be drawn into appropriate groups.

[Jackson Harrison]

I think most of us are more concerned about the format of the qualifiers (especially for World Cup) than the Nations League.

So assuming all 55 teams enter, it will be 7 groups of 5 teams and 5 groups of 4 teams.

Now there are 8 teams playing in League A quarter-finals in March, and if they win, have to play in the Nations League finals in June.

My first question is:

If a team reaches the Nations League finals and are drawn into a group of five teams, they have to play 4 NL matches and 8 WCQ matches, which is impossible to fit into the current schedule.

So what is the solution?

Does that mean all 8 Nations League quarter-finalists are drawn into groups of 4 teams? This can be impossible due to seeding, as a majority of those eight teams are likely to be among the strongest 12 teams and seeded in Pot 1.

Does that mean they also have to play qualifiers in June if they are drawn into a group of 5 teams? It is possible if there is an extended window in June which allows them to play 4 matches. But that would mean teams may not take the Nations League finals seriously. Of course they can first play the qualifiers first, followed by the Nations League finals.

Or do they play all their qualifiers starting from September? For example if they play three qualifiers in each window. But this would put these teams at a disadvantage.

A possibility is that the four teams which reach the Nations League finals are slotted into a group of four teams (similar to what they are doing now). But we don’t know which teams they are until after the matches in March, after the WCQ draw has happened.

If they put an empty slot which is only decided after the matches in March. Let’s say winner of Nations League quarter-final 1 is put into Group 1 with 4 teams, and the loser is put into another group. Problem is if Group 1 is actually a tougher group, teams may have incentive to lose the Nations League quarter-final.

Simple: Assign 4 NL group winners to groups of 4 'provisionally' if the RU ' defies the odds' and wins the QF they swap but only if they are in a group of 5:

Example:
Germany (GW) v England (GRU) England wins and swap with Germany as they are in a fivesome so Germany now play the fivesome and England the fouresome!

[Jackson Harrison]

Now you really don't want to finish last in League A. England were in pot B but will still qualify for Euro 2024 as runner up. That is no longer a guarantee for Euro 2028.

@amenina I would predict they'd simply leave 8 slots blank. Following the quarter finals, the teams would be drawn into appropriate groups.

Pot 2 do you mean?

I hope we'll get some 'revenge' on Italy and win group. We need to stay on our toes though we could easily slip up as Ukraine are no push over. I'm abit worried as if we cock up and finish third (which isn't impossible) we won't haves play-off as we had a mega crap NL. 2 losses to Hungary particularly 4-0 on home soil was embarrasing

[amenina]

Now you really don't want to finish last in League A. England were in pot B but will still qualify for Euro 2024 as runner up. That is no longer a guarantee for Euro 2028.

@amenina I would predict they'd simply leave 8 slots blank. Following the quarter finals, the teams would be drawn into appropriate groups.

It is possible, but as I said, if the groups for the quarter-final winners look stronger than the groups for the quarter-final losers, the teams may prefer to lose the Nations League quarter-finals to get an easier draw in the qualifiers.

[Lorric]

I don't think the kind of teams which would make it to the NL last 8 would throw the tie if they thought it would provide them with an easier qualifying group. Any teams that not be taking the NL seriously you'd think would be weeded out before the quarter finals, thus the teams involved would want to win the NL and the Euro.

[amenina]

I think most of us are more concerned about the format of the qualifiers (especially for World Cup) than the Nations League.

So assuming all 55 teams enter, it will be 7 groups of 5 teams and 5 groups of 4 teams.

Now there are 8 teams playing in League A quarter-finals in March, and if they win, have to play in the Nations League finals in June.

My first question is:

If a team reaches the Nations League finals and are drawn into a group of five teams, they have to play 4 NL matches and 8 WCQ matches, which is impossible to fit into the current schedule.

So what is the solution?

Does that mean all 8 Nations League quarter-finalists are drawn into groups of 4 teams? This can be impossible due to seeding, as a majority of those eight teams are likely to be among the strongest 12 teams and seeded in Pot 1.

Does that mean they also have to play qualifiers in June if they are drawn into a group of 5 teams? It is possible if there is an extended window in June which allows them to play 4 matches. But that would mean teams may not take the Nations League finals seriously. Of course they can first play the qualifiers first, followed by the Nations League finals.

Or do they play all their qualifiers starting from September? For example if they play three qualifiers in each window. But this would put these teams at a disadvantage.

A possibility is that the four teams which reach the Nations League finals are slotted into a group of four teams (similar to what they are doing now). But we don’t know which teams they are until after the matches in March, after the WCQ draw has happened.

If they put an empty slot which is only decided after the matches in March. Let’s say winner of Nations League quarter-final 1 is put into Group 1 with 4 teams, and the loser is put into another group. Problem is if Group 1 is actually a tougher group, teams may have incentive to lose the Nations League quarter-final.

Simple: Assign 4 NL group winners to groups of 4 'provisionally' if the RU ' defies the odds' and wins the QF they swap but only if they are in a group of 5:

Example:
Germany (GW) v England (GRU) England wins and swap with Germany as they are in a fivesome so Germany now play the fivesome and England the fouresome!

It is possible, but as I said, if the four-team group looks stronger than the five team group, then England may prefer to lose to Germany so they will get an easier group in the qualifiers.

[Lorric]

Now you really don't want to finish last in League A. England were in pot B but will still qualify for Euro 2024 as runner up. That is no longer a guarantee for Euro 2028.

@amenina I would predict they'd simply leave 8 slots blank. Following the quarter finals, the teams would be drawn into appropriate groups.

It is possible, but as I said, if the groups for the quarter-final winners look stronger than the groups for the quarter-final losers, the teams may prefer to lose the Nations League quarter-finals to get an easier draw in the qualifiers.

But if they do it my way, they don't know what group they'll get. It could be any one of four 4 team groups as a winner, and any one of four other groups as a loser. They'd only find out after the quarter finals.

[Jackson Harrison]

Now you really don't want to finish last in League A. England were in pot B but will still qualify for Euro 2024 as runner up. That is no longer a guarantee for Euro 2028.

@amenina I would predict they'd simply leave 8 slots blank. Following the quarter finals, the teams would be drawn into appropriate groups.

It is possible, but as I said, if the groups for the quarter-final winners look stronger than the groups for the quarter-final losers, the teams may prefer to lose the Nations League quarter-finals to get an easier draw in the qualifiers.

But if they do it my way, they don't know what group they'll get. It could be any one of four 4 team groups as a winner, and any one of four other groups as a loser. They'd only find out after the quarter finals.

You mean so do a draw in March after QF?

[Lorric]

It is possible, but as I said, if the groups for the quarter-final winners look stronger than the groups for the quarter-final losers, the teams may prefer to lose the Nations League quarter-finals to get an easier draw in the qualifiers.

But if they do it my way, they don't know what group they'll get. It could be any one of four 4 team groups as a winner, and any one of four other groups as a loser. They'd only find out after the quarter finals.

You mean so do a draw in March after QF?

Yes. They're going to have to do a draw anyway for the NL semis and final, so they might as well do both then.

[Jackson Harrison]

But if they do it my way, they don't know what group they'll get. It could be any one of four 4 team groups as a winner, and any one of four other groups as a loser. They'd only find out after the quarter finals.

You mean so do a draw in March after QF?

Yes. They're going to have to do a draw anyway for the NL semis and final, so they might as well do both then.

Won't they do QF and SF draw at the same time like they do for Women's CL given it's same format (save for single leg SF)

[Lorric]

You mean so do a draw in March after QF?

Yes. They're going to have to do a draw anyway for the NL semis and final, so they might as well do both then.

Won't they do QF and SF draw at the same time like they do for Women's CL given it's same format (save for single leg SF)

I don't think there'll even be a QF draw. It'll be A1 vs B2, etc.