German Football 2023-24

[Lorric]

There was almost no suspense for the title (before this game Opta gave 97% chances to Leverkusen to win the title) but the way they are winning their games reinforces the feeling that nothing can happen to them.

It's felt inevitable for a long, long time now, and deep down inside I knew they were the real deal from quite early in the season, I just didn't say anything because it was Leverkusen of all teams, so how could they be? I doubted myself. I was still one of the first if not the first to take their title chances dead seriously though.

Is Kane ever going to win a trophy? Leverkusen are just superior to Bayern and their manager is apparently staying on. The big bad Bundesliga boogeyman has been replaced by an even bigger, badder boogeyman.

[mspm89]

There was almost no suspense for the title (before this game Opta gave 97% chances to Leverkusen to win the title) but the way they are winning their games reinforces the feeling that nothing can happen to them.

It's felt inevitable for a long, long time now, and deep down inside I knew they were the real deal from quite early in the season, I just didn't say anything because it was Leverkusen of all teams, so how could they be? I doubted myself. I was still one of the first if not the first to take their title chances dead seriously though.

Is Kane ever going to win a trophy? Leverkusen are just superior to Bayern and their manager is apparently staying on. The big bad Bundesliga boogeyman has been replaced by an even bigger, badder boogeyman.

Aren't they a bit far off from being a boogeyman? I mean, there's PSG, who's taking advantage of the fact that France's biggest winner was St. Etienne with only 10, and then there's City, whose dominance could bring them to being 10 titles away from their main rivals and biggest winners. OTOH, Leverkusen could win the next 30 Bundesliga titles and would still be behind Bayern.

[Lorric]

There was almost no suspense for the title (before this game Opta gave 97% chances to Leverkusen to win the title) but the way they are winning their games reinforces the feeling that nothing can happen to them.

It's felt inevitable for a long, long time now, and deep down inside I knew they were the real deal from quite early in the season, I just didn't say anything because it was Leverkusen of all teams, so how could they be? I doubted myself. I was still one of the first if not the first to take their title chances dead seriously though.

Is Kane ever going to win a trophy? Leverkusen are just superior to Bayern and their manager is apparently staying on. The big bad Bundesliga boogeyman has been replaced by an even bigger, badder boogeyman.

Aren't they a bit far off from being a boogeyman? I mean, there's PSG, who's taking advantage of the fact that France's biggest winner was St. Etienne with only 10, and then there's City, whose dominance could bring them to being 10 titles away from their main rivals and biggest winners. OTOH, Leverkusen could win the next 30 Bundesliga titles and would still be behind Bayern.

I don't mean that kind of all time thing, I mean right now. Bayern are still comparable to your average Bayern title winning team of their streak of titles, and Leverkusen are just better than them. The rest of the Bundesliga can barely put a scratch on them.

[eye]

Nothing is impossible with Tuchel. (I mean the negative records, of course, the Bundesliga title is surely not possible under this guy)

I don't think Tuchel is a good manager for Bayern but blaming him for everything is wrong. Bayern got 71 points and won Bundesliga a year ago and currently Leverkousen has 2 more points and there are still 7 matches to play. They may break the record for most points in a season (Bayern got 91 11 years ago) and may also be the first ever club to finish league unbeaten. When there is such opponent in the league I don't think any manager could have done much more that Tuchel.

[Greyn]

I think it is a combination of both - weakness by Bayern + superb season by Leverkusen. Bayern club board made a misstep by announcing Tuchel will leave after the season, but at the end it will not matter that much domestically since with any other coach Bayern would not be able to overtake Leverkusen and they will finish on a CL spot anyway. I believe that that misstep will matter much more in the CL.

[rpo.castro]

There was almost no suspense for the title (before this game Opta gave 97% chances to Leverkusen to win the title) but the way they are winning their games reinforces the feeling that nothing can happen to them.

It's felt inevitable for a long, long time now, and deep down inside I knew they were the real deal from quite early in the season, I just didn't say anything because it was Leverkusen of all teams, so how could they be? I doubted myself. I was still one of the first if not the first to take their title chances dead seriously though.

Is Kane ever going to win a trophy? Leverkusen are just superior to Bayern and their manager is apparently staying on. The big bad Bundesliga boogeyman has been replaced by an even bigger, badder boogeyman.

If Kane moves to PSG, they might not win Ligue 1 again

[BurningStorm]

I don't mean that kind of all time thing, I mean right now. Bayern are still comparable to your average Bayern title winning team of their streak of titles, and Leverkusen are just better than them. The rest of the Bundesliga can barely put a scratch on them.

Stuttgart are only 3 points behind and there is still a game at home against Bayern, so the 3rd place is not unrealistic for Bayern.

@Greyn The announcing was not the problem, they even played better right after this. It was a mistake to sack Nagelsmann after his impressive CL run of 8 wins in 8 games (and 0 conceded goals in six games against Barca, Inter and PSG) and sign Tuchel. Nagelsmann's points per game at Bayern: 2,31 vs Tuchel 2,04 (and he got Kane on top).

[Lorric]

I don't mean that kind of all time thing, I mean right now. Bayern are still comparable to your average Bayern title winning team of their streak of titles, and Leverkusen are just better than them. The rest of the Bundesliga can barely put a scratch on them.

Stuttgart are only 3 points behind and there is still a game at home against Bayern, so the 3rd place is not unrealistic for Bayern.

@Greyn The announcing was not the problem, they even played better right after this. It was a mistake to sack Nagelsmann after his impressive CL run of 8 wins in 8 games (and 0 conceded goals in six games against Barca, Inter and PSG) and sign Tuchel. Nagelsmann's points per game at Bayern: 2,31 vs Tuchel 2,04 (and he got Kane on top).

I meant can't scratch Leverkusen.

[Greyn]

@Greyn The announcing was not the problem, they even played better right after this. It was a mistake to sack Nagelsmann after his impressive CL run of 8 wins in 8 games (and 0 conceded goals in six games against Barca, Inter and PSG) and sign Tuchel. Nagelsmann's points per game at Bayern: 2,31 vs Tuchel 2,04 (and he got Kane on top).

I agree that sacking Nagelsmann was a bad decision. It is clear now that it did not help Bayern to improve domestic results AND Bayern are not looking well in the CL also. That tie vs Lazio was won in a way that was far from convincing. Bayern is a club which can't be underestimated by any club in the world no matter what, even with Tuchel on the bench and all the difficulties and issues they presently experience. Despite that, I still see that announcement like giving up with this season by the club board. I would have replaced Tuchel with a new coach. That would not help to win the championship title, but in Europe Bayern would have a better chance in my opinion. It would also give more time for the new coach to get know the team and slowly solving the issues, as well as prepare the team for the new season. Maybe coach they want to hire is currently working in other club and they are waiting for summer break, otherwise I don't see a sense to keep Tuchel in the club for the rest of the season.

[rrey1]

It's unclear how Tuchel even got such high a reputation.
He is neither a tactician nor a motivator. He is a German version of Mourinho. He can't build a team and his best work was with teams already pre-built for him (2020 PSG and 2021 Chelsea).
Bayern is in a dire need of a rebuild (Muller/Kimmich/Neuer/Gnabry/Sane generation has run its course) and Tuchel is the absolutely wrong manager for that.

[rpo.castro]

It's unclear how Tuchel even got such high a reputation.
He is neither a tactician nor a motivator. He is a German version of Mourinho. He can't build a team and his best work was with teams already pre-built for him (2020 PSG and 2021 Chelsea).
Bayern is in a dire need of a rebuild (Muller/Kimmich/Neuer/Gnabry/Sane generation has run its course) and Tuchel is the absolutely wrong manager for that.

If he is not a motivator how can he be a Mourinho? Mourinho strong quality was motivating his players, making them give everything on the pitch.

[rrey1]

May be in mid-2000s Mourinho was a "motivator".
After that he was more of a "whiner", trying to squeak out results by any means [regardless of how questionable] and acting like a soap opera artist if results did not follow.
Klopp, Benitez, Ancelotti are "true motivators". Even Alonso is getting close.

[angel_87]

Bayer Leverkusen ahead 3-0 (end of 1st half) in the DFB Pokal vs Dusseldorf...Bayer have not lost in official matches since 27 May 2023!!

[BurningStorm]

Kaiserslautern's fans are really good, better than at least half of the 1. Bundesliga. In Berlin they'll celebrate it in a spectacular way and it's worth watching it just because of that. And of course because of the fact that you can see live a title win for Leverkusen, which is almost a wonder of the world, given the club's history.

I would have replaced Tuchel with a new coach. That would not help to win the championship title, but in Europe Bayern would have a better chance in my opinion. It would also give more time for the new coach to get know the team and slowly solving the issues, as well as prepare the team for the new season. Maybe coach they want to hire is currently working in other club and they are waiting for summer break, otherwise I don't see a sense to keep Tuchel in the club for the rest of the season.

Yes, that's what I thought (and think) too. And if the next coach is under contract, every youth coach interim solution would have been better in my opinion, or some random Bundesliga coach who is a good motivator and doesn't have a job at the moment. He would for sure sign a contract for a few months (big names probably not, they want a longer contract). Lets see how they play against Arsenal, with this Bayern team you never know.

@Lorric Alright, I misunderstood it because you once said that Bayern's season is not that bad when we look at the points (which was right back then, but overall they have a very problematic season, 3rd place behind Stuttgart would be shameful for their understanding).

[mspm89]

Leverkusen to win Bundesliga and Europa League, and Kaiserslautern to win the Pokal and everybody happy!

Ok, not Burningstorm and the other 2 coefficient enthusiasts from Germany.

For Leverkusen, it'd not be a "trve" treble anyway. OTOH, hopefully KL won't get relegated to the 3rd tier in the process!