2023/2024 Conference League Group D: Club Brugge - Bodo/Glimt - Besiktas - Lugano

[Dragonite]

And I don't know in what world you see Besiktas with better CL or EL results than Brugge ?
Besiktas made it once to CL-R2, just as Brugge.
Besiktas made it once to EL-QF, just as Brugge.
And last time they met, Brugge won twice.
Last time Besiktas met a Belgian club (Genk), they could only take 1 point in 2 matches.
Last time Brugge met a Turkish club (Galatasaray), they finished ahead of them.

I'll explain.

Besiktas played the CL 8 times and progressed from the group stage once, in their 7th attempt, in 2017/2018.
Club Brugge played the CL 10 times and progressed from the group stages once, in their 10th attempt, in 2022/2023.

So Club Brugge needed more time and more attempts to do it.

Club Brugge CL record is 14-17-31, 0.95 PPG
Besiktas CL record is 13-9-28, 0.96 PPG

So it's very similar, Club Brugge has more points but Besiktas has a higher PPG


Bestikas played the EL 7 times and reached the quarterfinals once, in their 5th attempt in 2016/2017.
Club Brugge played the EL 9 times and reached the quarterfinals once, in their 5th attempt in 2014/2015.

So again Besiktas did it with fewer attempts (although Club Brugge did it two years before them).

Besiktas EL record is 22-9-21, 1.44 PPG
Club Brugge EL record is 17-16-19, 1.29 PPG

So Besiktas has more points and a higher PPG than Club Brugge



These CL results are from 1992/1993 to 2022/2023, so 31 seasons.
These EL results are from 2009/2010 to 2022/2023, so 14 seasons.


If the "Turkish way" represented by Besiktas was so much worse than the "Belgian way" represented by Club Brugge, these numbers should support it, and they don't.



Interesting "coincidence"

Besiktas advanced from a CL group in 2017/2018 alongside Porto, eliminating Leipzig and Monaco.

Club Brugge advanced from a CL group in 2022/2023 alongside Porto, eliminating Leverkusen and Atlético.

According to some people, these results are a violation of the laws of nature, "bottom bottom" teams aren't supposed to finish above "top top" teams.

[naaba]

And I don't know in what world you see Besiktas with better CL or EL results than Brugge ?
Besiktas made it once to CL-R2, just as Brugge.
Besiktas made it once to EL-QF, just as Brugge.
And last time they met, Brugge won twice.
Last time Besiktas met a Belgian club (Genk), they could only take 1 point in 2 matches.
Last time Brugge met a Turkish club (Galatasaray), they finished ahead of them.

I'll explain.

Besiktas played the CL 8 times and progressed from the group stage once, in their 7th attempt, in 2017/2018.
Club Brugge played the CL 10 times and progressed from the group stages once, in their 10th attempt, in 2022/2023.

So Club Brugge needed more time and more attempts to do it.

Club Brugge CL record is 14-17-31, 0.95 PPG
Besiktas CL record is 13-9-28, 0.96 PPG

So it's very similar, Club Brugge has more points but Besiktas has a higher PPG


Bestikas played the EL 7 times and reached the quarterfinals once, in their 5th attempt in 2016/2017.
Club Brugge played the EL 9 times and reached the quarterfinals once, in their 5th attempt in 2014/2015.

So again Besiktas did it with fewer attempts (although Club Brugge did it two years before them).

Besiktas EL record is 22-9-21, 1.44 PPG
Club Brugge EL record is 17-16-19, 1.29 PPG

So Besiktas has more points and a higher PPG than Club Brugge



These CL results are from 1992/1993 to 2022/2023, so 31 seasons.
These EL results are from 2009/2010 to 2022/2023, so 14 seasons.


If the "Turkish way" represented by Besiktas was so much worse than the "Belgian way" represented by Club Brugge, these numbers should support it, and they don't.



Interesting "coincidence"

Besiktas advanced from a CL group in 2017/2018 alongside Porto, eliminating Leipzig and Monaco.

Club Brugge advanced from a CL group in 2022/2023 alongside Porto, eliminating Leverkusen and Atlético.

According to some people, these results are a violation of the laws of nature, "bottom bottom" teams aren't supposed to finish above "top top" teams.

It doesn't make much sense going back too far, otherwise I could say Brugge played a C1 final and C3 final back in the day. And Brugge had to recently deal with insane groups in CL.

Brugge went to CL-R2 as early as a year ago, while Besiktas was not even European. And last time Besiktas played CL-GS (2 years ago) they were wiped out in a homogeneous group though. I won't even mention the embarassing elimination against Rio Ave the year before.

If we look at recent results then the only objective conclusion is Brugge > Besiktas. And if we go super recent, Brugge even eliminated Osasuna.

Once again it will be a close call for the first spot in the group, but we can't deny Brugge is the real favorite. I'm actually excited by the first game. The winner will set up the mood on who's to keep the top spot at the end.

[zender]

Besiktas and Brugge play for top spot. I have got to give the edge here to Brugge.
But don't underestimate the Norweigian squad Bodo/Glimt, I see them taking points from either Besiktas or Brugge. Maybe even both if they happen to underestimate them.

[Stephenmoka4]

I wouldn't mind the stat, but I am confident Club Brugge is going to qualify. Bodoe and Besiktas may fight for the last opportunity. Both Lugano and Bodoe will collect point(s) from Besiktas, there is nothing scary about Besiktas... A very tough group, Brugge is favorite to qualify.

[Dragonite]

It doesn't make much sense going back too far, otherwise I could say Brugge played a C1 final and C3 final back in the day. And Brugge had to recently deal with insane groups in CL.

Brugge went to CL-R2 as early as a year ago, while Besiktas was not even European. And last time Besiktas played CL-GS (2 years ago) they were wiped out in a homogeneous group though. I won't even mention the embarassing elimination against Rio Ave the year before.

If we look at recent results then the only objective conclusion is Brugge > Besiktas. And if we go super recent, Brugge even eliminated Osasuna.

Once again it will be a close call for the first spot in the group, but we can't deny Brugge is the real favorite. I'm actually excited by the first game. The winner will set up the mood on who's to keep the top spot at the end.

It's undeniable that Club Brugge was much better than Besiktas over the last half-decade. That's why Club Brugge is in pot 1 and Besiktas is in pot 3!
Club Brugge played the CL 5 seasons in a row, overwintered in 4 of them, even reached the CL last 16 once.
Besiktas only played group stages 3 times, only once in CL, and couldn't overwinter a single time!!

You're the one that said "long term". To me long term isn't 5 years only, it's 10, 20, 25 years.


I prefer the "Belgian way" compared to the "Turkish way". I just wanted to say that the "Belgian way" didn't bring more success to Club Brugge than the "Turkish way" brought to Besiktas in the CL history and EL history.

So although Club Brugge has a better "plan", they're just not very good applying it.



Where Club Brugge is clearly better than Besiktas is in youth football.

UYL records
Club Brugge: 14-6-12, 1.5 PPG
Besiktas 5-4-13, 0.86 PPG


These players that Club Brugge raises (combined with the ones that they import for the senior team) gives them hope of a better future.


But for short term the "Turkish way" may prevail, this group will be played during the next 3 months only, it doesn't really matter if in 3-5 years the current Club Brugge squad will be much more valuable than now while the current Besiktas squad will depreciate.

[ecrivain 93]

And I don't know in what world you see Besiktas with better CL or EL results than Brugge ?
Besiktas made it once to CL-R2, just as Brugge.
Besiktas made it once to EL-QF, just as Brugge.
And last time they met, Brugge won twice.
Last time Besiktas met a Belgian club (Genk), they could only take 1 point in 2 matches.
Last time Brugge met a Turkish club (Galatasaray), they finished ahead of them.

I'll explain.

Besiktas played the CL 8 times and progressed from the group stage once, in their 7th attempt, in 2017/2018.
Club Brugge played the CL 10 times and progressed from the group stages once, in their 10th attempt, in 2022/2023.

So Club Brugge needed more time and more attempts to do it.

Club Brugge CL record is 14-17-31, 0.95 PPG
Besiktas CL record is 13-9-28, 0.96 PPG

So it's very similar, Club Brugge has more points but Besiktas has a higher PPG


Bestikas played the EL 7 times and reached the quarterfinals once, in their 5th attempt in 2016/2017.
Club Brugge played the EL 9 times and reached the quarterfinals once, in their 5th attempt in 2014/2015.

So again Besiktas did it with fewer attempts (although Club Brugge did it two years before them).

Besiktas EL record is 22-9-21, 1.44 PPG
Club Brugge EL record is 17-16-19, 1.29 PPG

So Besiktas has more points and a higher PPG than Club Brugge



These CL results are from 1992/1993 to 2022/2023, so 31 seasons.
These EL results are from 2009/2010 to 2022/2023, so 14 seasons.


If the "Turkish way" represented by Besiktas was so much worse than the "Belgian way" represented by Club Brugge, these numbers should support it, and they don't.



Interesting "coincidence"

Besiktas advanced from a CL group in 2017/2018 alongside Porto, eliminating Leipzig and Monaco.

Club Brugge advanced from a CL group in 2022/2023 alongside Porto, eliminating Leverkusen and Atlético.

According to some people, these results are a violation of the laws of nature, "bottom bottom" teams aren't supposed to finish above "top top" teams.

It doesn't make much sense going back too far, otherwise I could say Brugge played a C1 final and C3 final back in the day. And Brugge had to recently deal with insane groups in CL.

Brugge went to CL-R2 as early as a year ago, while Besiktas was not even European. And last time Besiktas played CL-GS (2 years ago) they were wiped out in a homogeneous group though. I won't even mention the embarassing elimination against Rio Ave the year before.

If we look at recent results then the only objective conclusion is Brugge > Besiktas. And if we go super recent, Brugge even eliminated Osasuna.

Once again it will be a close call for the first spot in the group, but we can't deny Brugge is the real favorite. I'm actually excited by the first game. The winner will set up the mood on who's to keep the top spot at the end.

As Besiktas fan, i look forward to the first match in 21 September. Besiktas is undefeated for seven months in official matches. Our experienced players gradually will become ready (Chamberlain, Rebic, Rashica etc.).

In the last 5 years Besiktas had bad results but you shouldn't focus on the limited stats. Besiktas will be better than former seasons.

[YAYgee]

Brugge tends to focus more on the league (title) around the time of the play-offs. I remember they had a great chance to at least make the EL semis in 2015 but didn't prioritize their QF tie with (a decent) Dnipro side and ended up losing it 1-0 (on agg.). I also recall Besiktas "fans" mowing down Brugge supporters that year: https://twitter.com/DieterDesender/stat ... e-besiktas

It's the start of the season now and so far Brugge looked alright. Then again it's early doors and I've seen them play really well yet not get rewarded.

[Polak]

Club Brugge were great in the CL last season and still have a strong team this season. They already knocked Osasuna out in the qualifiers. Besiktas should be 2nd. The other two can just try to get a few coefficient points.

1. Club Brugge
2. Besiktas
3 Bodo/Glimt
4. Lugano

[naaba]

Brugge showed they were the best team of the group, but they simply could not score against Besiktas. Should have been 4-0, could have been 2-1 last second, but it's 1-1.

One of the great mysteries of football.



On target : 9-3
Off target : 3-1
Corners : 12-1

Summary of the game (VPN on Belgian IP required) :

https://youtu.be/RXzYWX4OLEc?si=1EDF2kGLIDtsJvUw

[bugylibicska]

Brugge showed they were the best team of the group, but they simply could not score against Besiktas. Should have been 4-0, could have been 2-1 last second, but it's 1-1.

One of the great mysteries of football.



On target : 9-3
Off target : 3-1
Corners : 12-1

Summary of the game (VPN on Belgian IP required) :

https://youtu.be/RXzYWX4OLEc?si=1EDF2kGLIDtsJvUw

Very lucky Besiktas.

[bjkman1903]

Brugge showed they were the best team of the group, but they simply could not score against Besiktas. Should have been 4-0, could have been 2-1 last second, but it's 1-1.

One of the great mysteries of football.

On target : 9-3
Off target : 3-1
Corners : 12-1

Summary of the game (VPN on Belgian IP required) :

https://youtu.be/RXzYWX4OLEc?si=1EDF2kGLIDtsJvUw

Very lucky Besiktas.

Yes, Club Brugge hit the post twice and missed several good chances. A fair result would have been 3 or 4-1.

Besiktas' defense was quite shaky as it was Eric Bailly's first official game and the first time they played together with Amartey.

@naaba yes, Club Brugge were the best team tonight at home but let's see how it goes in Istanbul first. Besiktas are a lot better at home and new transfers would be more integrated to the team at that time. I also doubt that many of the young players of Club Brugge played in such a hostile/noisy stadium before.

[YAYgee]

I only watched the highlights, which were 16 minutes long because Brugge created a looot of chances. That they only scored once was truly baffling. The look on Thiago's face spoke volumes. You don't bury those/run up the score and then one mistake costs you the win.

Not the only Belgian team to spill points and could have edged closer to Turkey's haul for this season, which is already impressive at this moment in time.

[Dragonite]

Two draws here...


Funny to see people saying how unfair Club Brugge's result is because of xG.

Last season Club Brugge's results and respective xG
1-0 win vs Leverkusen (0.6-1.0 xG)
4-0 win vs Porto (3.0-1.5 xG)
2-0 win vs Atlético (1.2-2.3 xG)
0-0 draw vs Atlético (0.6-2.0 xG)
0-4 defeat vs Porto (1.3-3.1 xG)
0-0 draw vs Leverkusen (0.3-1.0 xG)

Questions for these people.

Last season's 11 points in CL were also "unfair" and the "fair" result should have been something like 4 points?

Or xG is something that you only look at when your favourite team doesn't win to hopefully use as an excuse that although they didn't win they "deserved"?

[naaba]

Funny to see people saying how unfair Club Brugge's result is because of xG.

Last season Club Brugge's results and respective xG
1-0 win vs Leverkusen (0.6-1.0 xG)
4-0 win vs Porto (3.0-1.5 xG)
2-0 win vs Atlético (1.2-2.3 xG)
0-0 draw vs Atlético (0.6-2.0 xG)
0-4 defeat vs Porto (1.3-3.1 xG)
0-0 draw vs Leverkusen (0.3-1.0 xG)

Questions for these people.

Last season's 11 points in CL were also "unfair" and the "fair" result should have been something like 4 points?

Or xG is something that you only look at when your favourite team doesn't win to hopefully use as an excuse that although they didn't win they "deserved"?

Brugge was underdog in Champions League. They were expected to not win any match, yet they won 3 against all odds.
Besiktas was supposed to be "equal" to Brugge, but they were walked over for 90 minutes. Everyone likes an underdog winning, but fewer go for the "self-proclamed favorite" getting destroyed yet taking a point.

[bjkman1903]

Brugge was underdog in Champions League. They were expected to not win any match, yet they won 3 against all odds.
Besiktas was supposed to be "equal" to Brugge, but they were walked over for 90 minutes. Everyone likes an underdog winning, but fewer go for the "self-proclamed favorite" getting destroyed yet taking a point.

What do you mean by "self-proclamed favorite" ?

Club Brugge's elo rating is 1649
Besiktas' elo rating is 1640

People would naturally expect a balanced game. I don't think anyone said that Besiktas would win in Belgium.

However, elo rating is just an indicator and do not take into account current shapes.

Besiktas are a mess at the moment - it was a golden opportunity and Club Brugge should have scored 3 (like Trabzon did) or 4 (like Adana Demirspor did in the league) or even more. They would have still won if they didn't make that stupid mistake at the end of the game. You win by scoring more goals than your opponent and they can only blame themselves for missing so many chances.

I wouldn't be worried about it anyways, Club Brugge should easily win this group with 14/16 pts. Hard to predict the team that would finish 2nd.