ECLGS, 2nd round, Oct.5.

[Greyn]

I don't know about your IQ, but I think it's normal to first wait for facts in this unclear scene instead of blurting out things five minutes after it happened, based on some video's.

May I ask what is unclear in this "unclear scene"? Policemen treating Legia president like an animal or terrorist just because he he wants to enter the club bus seems to be a quite clear scene to me.

[Lorric]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/67027229

It says it is a charge of mishandling. I don't know what that even means. Trying to Google, it's all about Donald Trump and the documents he had.

[Ed]

But you don't know what has happened before that video-sequence. So it is a complete opinion based on only a small portion of information. And that's what I don't like in the current reactions from some of the Polish members here.

[Ed]

In the Dutch media it is reported that an AZ-official was mishandled right after the end of the match. Attacked ? eh.. abused eh. I don't know I wasn't there.

[Greyn]

But you don't know what has happened before that video-sequence. So it is a complete opinion based on only a small portion of information. And that's what I don't like in the current reactions from some of the Polish members here.

There are not one and two, but at least a dozen of witnesses who saw the full event. They have same version of events that took place in Alkmaar last night.

Have a nice day. Hopefully spent with Duch newspapers, Dutch online articles and so on. If you find some interesting discovery, please share it with us here on the forum. Like with this one:

n the Dutch media it is reported that an AZ-official was mishandled right after the end of the match.

[mieszambeton]

Wait for what? You have the video where the Legia owner is pushed like a animal
No matter what happaned before.

[Greyn]

Dariusz Mioduski said on the press conference:

- You saw in the movies what happened. Thank God we managed to record some of these things, otherwise it would sound completely different in all media today, Mioduski began.

- This match was a bit of a celebration for us. It didn't go as we wanted. It's a pity, because we could have at least drawn this match. But there was no aggression during the match - neither on the pitch nor in the stands. Our fans supported us phenomenally, there were no incidents after the match. What happened an hour later seems unbelievable, he said.

- When I think about it today, it was not just an incident, but something that was growing. I arrived in Alkmaar only yesterday afternoon, but I immediately heard various reports from our employees that something was happening all the time, they were being harassed all the time. Later I realized earlier e-mails from Dutch journalists who expected a horde of Polish fans. The attitude of the entire local government was terrible. The mayor said publicly that she did not want Poles in the city, people were taken out of the restaurant - he said.

- For me, what happened is an absolute scandal. I have been going to matches for many years, I have seen many situations. I saw our players being attacked by rival fans. However, I have never seen the team or members of the staff or management board attacked by security services or the police. This seems to be an unprecedented situation on a global scale, he added.

- This is something we will not let go of. We will do everything to clarify, straighten out and change the narrative that appears in the Dutch media. I was there, I experienced it myself. This is simply not true. Maybe they realized they were overdoing it and that's why they started creating certain things. That's why they took the players out and put them in custody. They are creating history, but it is not true history, he emphasized.

[fabiomh]

This remaind me a fact happened in Netherlands before a match of Euro 2000; on 2 July 2000, yes, 2000, i.e. 23 years ago, before the Final France-Italy.

some Dutch policemen threw peanuts on some fans in wheelchairs who had to enter the stadium. Italian TV journalists who were filming the scene were brutally stopped and handcuffed to the ground and arrested by the police.

Here below the detailed report (Source: Gazzetta dello Sport:
https://archiviostorico.gazzetta.it/200 ... 876.shtml ) :

The incredible story of the Rai journalists arrested in Rotterdam «We, in cells like criminals» Mattioli: «They beat me, I have a dislocated shoulder». Scarnati: «Hours in a cage in the dark» They wanted to help a group of handicapped fans mistreated by the organizers. They have been accused of resisting a public official and assaulting the police: there will be a trial. A crazy Sunday for Ignazio Scardina, Mario Mattioli and Donatella Scarnati, RAI correspondents at the European Championship. Chased, beaten, handcuffed by Dutch police: everything happened on the edge of the Rotterdam stadium. The next day, shortly before taking the plane to Italy, Mattioli recounts the events, still agitated and dismayed: «It all starts just before the match, at 6.30pm. A group of disabled people in wheelchairs, accompanied by volunteers, try to enter the stadium with the ticket, but are blocked by the organization's staff: there are problems, only eight disabled people can enter, no more. There are one hundred and forty of them, they see me pass, recognize me and ask for help. I inform myself, I explain the problem to the ushers, I say that there are places in the parterre under the curve. Suddenly one of them says: "It's not your problem, these shitty legless Italians can go home!". A girl in a wheelchair starts crying, I tell the cameraman to film and as soon as that guy notices the camera he physically picks up me and Ignazio Scardina, who had come to help me." At that moment Donatella Scarnati passes by and as soon as she sees her colleagues in that incredible situation she starts screaming. «Leave them, leave them!». She also gained weight. Mattioli continues: «I was struggling and the policemen were holding me up with a tool under their armpit. I dislocated my shoulder, I have bruises all over, a head injury, handcuff marks on my wrists, and I even lost a Rolex. They didn't want us to take pictures. But can it? It's incredible that something like this happened, they took me to a cell, they interrogated me, with Scardina we were released after midnight. Incredible". What would the Rai journalists have done that was so terrible? They are accused of resisting a public official and of trying to headbutt policemen and law enforcement officers, and now there will be a trial. Ignazio Scardina took the headbutts: two hematomas, one on the cheekbone and one on the forehead. Donatella Scarnati is still in shock as she checks her suitcases at the airport and makes sure they arrive in Rome (after what happened to her everything is fine). Scarnati also inexplicably found itself in the clutches of the Dutch. «They say we would have reacted! But what a reaction, they won't let you. They take me in a van with some cells. While they are leading me bodily I see a cameraman and shout to him: "Look where they are taking me!". I feared that in the slaughterhouse of the final they would forget about me. They take a photo of me as if I were a criminal, they take away my personal effects, they lock me in a cell measuring one meter by one, without air, without water. I feel claustrophobic. I'm scared, I see scenes that remind me of the dark period of Latin America. I try not to think, every now and then someone checks me from above by opening a little door and, as if that wasn't enough, they make me listen to the match report in Flemish on the radio. Luckily, through a crack I see the president of Rai Zaccaria who is right there, near the cell. I calm down. I was released on bail of 700,000 lire at around 10.30 pm. A nightmare ends." The Rai journalists and technicians (Mauro Maurizi, Gianluca Migliucci, Luigi De Gortes and the producer Franco Marcelli), freed during the night, were accompanied to the hospital before departure. After this episode, which involves the rights of disabled people and those of information, it will perhaps be necessary to review certain concepts about countries that are considered advanced and civilized...

"...these shitty legless Italians can go home..." probably they were still angry for the semifinal lost a few days before.

[Jua Ferreira]

Families of West Ham players were attacked in the stadium last year. The incident was closed with a fine of only 80,000 euros

[fabiomh]

Families of West Ham players were attacked in the stadium last year. The incident was closed with a fine of only 80,000 euros

Dutch police like AZ ultras????
It is unbelieveble: policeman against disabled people in wheelchairs and pacific journalists.

[Greyn]

@fabiomh
Thank you for sharing. Unbelievable story.

[fabiomh]

@Greyn you are welcome

[Greyn]

More from Dariusz Mioduski:

– I was dressed in a legionary suit, a very nice white shirt and gray trousers. I said that I am the president of the club and they must treat us with respect. When the situation couldn't be resolved, I wanted to record it. Then they threw my phone away. I was brutally hit several times. When I tried to get to Josue and Pankov, secret police officers with masks were standing there and brutally pushed me away, Mioduski described

Mioduski: there was no aggression on our part
The prevailing narrative in the Dutch media is that Legia's players injured one of the security guards. Moreover, the police statement included information about the situation before the match, suggesting that Legia had not complied with previous arrangements.

– I don't know what the Dutch police are talking about regarding failure to fulfill obligations. Apparently they wanted to take away our fans' drums and flags at the entrance gate, but it wasn't a big problem. While passing by bus, I saw rows of policemen with dangerous dogs. Undercover officers in masks pushed us. There was no aggression on our part. I don't know where it came from, commented Mioduski.

[Witkop1983]

The reason the players were arrested by the police is because they are accused of molesting a security guard (broken elbow and concussion).
I have no idea how much is true. I wasn't there.

Of course the police knew the 2 suspects would be in the players bus and requested them to come out, which they seemed to have refused. And that is probably where the president of Legia got involved.
It is the first time I hear of players doing this kind of actions (at least off the pitch), and if it is true the police is right to arrest them.


And of course the Legia supporters also did a lot of things that shouldn't have happend (but this has nothing to do with the incident involving the players). Like trying to smuggle fireworks into the stadium and trying to get into the stadium without tickets. This also led to riots, resulting in at least one police officer to be unconcious.

It is not the first time that Legia supporters/hooligans start a riot in the Netherlands (at least it also happened in Utrecht in the early 2000's)

[mieszambeton]

There is a video showing Legias owner being pushed by the police
If Legia players were " molesting a security guard (broken elbow and concussion)" which sound like a absurd, surely there were cameras inside the stadium and AZ should show the video for that.