Seeding for UEFA Club Competitions 2024/25

[eye]

Since UEFA announced the change of format at May of 2022. Last summer changes were confirmed officially at this circular letter https://editorial.uefa.com/resources/02 ... _36_en.zip

[amenina]

When was it said that the Conference League will have 6 pots?

As posted above by @eye.

[bert.kassies]

Like @dnina10 said rebalancing from next season on will either use the best ranked clubs or clubs from the next best association (like now). However, the information I got is a little bit different. From 2024 on there will be two kinds of rebalancing.

Direct rebalancing: to fill the open spot in the league stage caused by effectively not using the titleholder spot, including the knock-on effects to lower qualifying rounds of the same competition. Either because the titleholder qualified already for the league stage of that competition by the domestic league, or the Conference League titleholder qualified for the Champions League (and chooses to take that route).

Indirect rebalancing: all other reasons for rebalancing, including the knock-on effects to lower competitions because of direct rebalancing in the Champions League or Europa League.

Direct rebalancing fills open spots in the format by the club(s) with the highest 5-yr club ranking from lower levels in the same competition. But without leapfrogging over clubs from the same association.

Indirect rebalancing fills open spots in the format by clubs from the next best association. This is the rebalancing that was used until 2024.

So, the Champions League mainly uses direct rebalancing (except for non-titleholder related changes like bans, etc). In the Conference League it's always indirect rebalancing (including the selection of clubs promoting to the Europa League), because there is no titleholder spot. In the Europa League it can either be direct rebalancing (Conference League titleholder related), or indirect rebalancing due to knock-on effects from Champions League rebalancing.

Together with the 2 new European Performance Spots this complicates the prediction of the final format of the UEFA European Club competions.

[Fotcalc]

Thanks for that info, @bert.kassies. If the UEL TH qualifies for UCL League Phase or League Path, there will likely be an open spot in UEL Q3. Is this spot filled based on best club coefficient among UEL Q1 clubs, or based on best NA with CW in UEL Q1?

In that exact scenario, @dnina10 wrote this: "Moreover, the highest ranked team from EL Q1 will move to Q3".

[bert.kassies]

Since this would be indirect rebalancing in the Europa League according to my information this would involve clubs from the next best-ranked associations. Like @dnina10 said it will not involve EL-Q2 clubs (from higher ranked associations), but clubs from EL-Q1 will be promoted. In this case I think 4 EL-Q1 clubs from the next best-ranked associations (rank 16-19) will be moved to EL-Q2 (and non directly to EL-Q3).

[Fotcalc]

OK. Are you saying that no club will be directly promoted from UEL Q1 -> Q3 in any scenario?

[dnina10]

Since this would be indirect rebalancing in the Europa League according to my information this would involve clubs from the next best-ranked associations. Like @dnina10 said it will not involve EL-Q2 clubs (from higher ranked associations), but clubs from EL-Q1 will be promoted. In this case I think 4 EL-Q1 clubs from the next best-ranked associations (rank 16-19) will be moved to EL-Q2 (and non directly to EL-Q3).

Hmm, this contrasts from what I've been told. I initially thought along the lines of what you said. However, I was told that in this case the highest ranked club from UEL Q1 by club coefficient would take a vacated spot in UEL Q3 (main path).

I also spoke to another source who confirmed the following:

"Overall the concept of awarding clubs with a high club coefficient has been prioritized though still maintaining some of the current principles."

It was also confirmed to me that, although not yet fully official, it is expected that a vacancy in UCL PO would be taken by the highest ranked club from UCL Q2 (of course in the champions path). I specifically asked about this

[bert.kassies]

It was also confirmed to me that, although not yet fully official, it is expected that a vacancy in UCL PO would be taken by the highest ranked club from UCL Q2 (of course in the champions path). I specifically asked about this

I can confirm that (providing the vacancy in CL-PO originated from a title-holder qualified for CL-PO by the domestic league). The knock-on effect of titleholder rebalancing in the same competition is always per round.

[bert.kassies]

Hmm, this contrasts from what I've been told. I initially thought along the lines of what you said. However, I was told that in this case the highest ranked club from UEL Q1 by club coefficient would take a vacated spot in UEL Q3 (main path).

If this should be the case, how would you further rebalance the Europa League? You cannot procede with an odd number of clubs in Q1.

[dnina10]

It was also confirmed to me that, although not yet fully official, it is expected that a vacancy in UCL PO would be taken by the highest ranked club from UCL Q2 (of course in the champions path). I specifically asked about this

I can confirm that (providing the vacancy in CL-PO originated from a title-holder qualified for CL-PO by the domestic league). The knock-on effect of titleholder rebalancing in the same competition is always per round.

Indeed. Of course, this will likely be prevalent as we can reasonably assume the following:

- UCL TH qualified for UCL LP domestically
- Shakhtar wind the Ukrainian league
- Shakhtar remains the highest ranked team in UCL Q CH path (realistically only Slavia can catch them, and even that I doubt)

So, assuming all three of the above occurs, it's good we have this knowledge on rebalancing. Next major thing to be established is the coefficient distribution model

[dnina10]

Hmm, this contrasts from what I've been told. I initially thought along the lines of what you said. However, I was told that in this case the highest ranked club from UEL Q1 by club coefficient would take a vacated spot in UEL Q3 (main path).

If this should be the case, how would you further rebalance the Europa League? You cannot procede with an odd number of clubs in Q1.

The CW from the next highest association not represented in UEL Q (in this case, Riga FC) would get the vacated spot in UEL Q1. Then of course two teams from UECL Q1 would move to Q2

[bert.kassies]

Hmm, this contrasts from what I've been told. I initially thought along the lines of what you said. However, I was told that in this case the highest ranked club from UEL Q1 by club coefficient would take a vacated spot in UEL Q3 (main path).

If this should be the case, how would you further rebalance the Europa League? You cannot procede with an odd number of clubs in Q1.

The CW from the next highest association not represented in UEL Q (in this case, Riga FC) would get the vacated spot in UEL Q1. Then of course two teams from UECL Q1 would move to Q2

That is an option, but I think the cross competition rebalancing between Europa League and Conference League will only be used for the knock-on effect of Conference League titleholder direct rebalancing.

[dnina10]

If this should be the case, how would you further rebalance the Europa League? You cannot procede with an odd number of clubs in Q1.

The CW from the next highest association not represented in UEL Q (in this case, Riga FC) would get the vacated spot in UEL Q1. Then of course two teams from UECL Q1 would move to Q2

That is an option, but I think the cross competition rebalancing between Europa League and Conference League will only be used for the knock-on effect of Conference League titleholder direct rebalancing.

While I see where you're going here, I was never specifically told that rebalancing would be contingent to only one competition like you're describing here.one thing that has been preached to me is consistency. So, I'd say this will remain consistent throughout.

Also remember something that was emphasized in that ECA document a while back. They mentioned the CWs, at least 33 (up to 37, though this is a loose number) could end up in UEL Q. Realistically, the only way this was to happen is if rebalancing stays consistent throughout.

Because, let's just say that the UCL TH qualities for the UEL LP. Wouldn't the same principle be used as the UECL TH?

[eye]

What I understand from the info @bert.kassies gave

If a club from the initial access list in missing from league stage then club with higher coefficient from qualifying round will replace it based on the the new rebalancing rules UEFA has already let us know. The club(s) which will get the spot(s) will also be replaced in the qualification rounds the same way. That's how I understand the direct rebalancing.
I still didn't understand if only clubs that enter at previous round may take part at rebalancing race to replaced the club that was promoted to LS or if all clubs from previous qualificaion rounds will take part. Eg if Shakhtar wins domestic league and be promoted to LS due to CL-W rebalancing which clubs could replace Shakhtar at CL-PO ? Just clubs that start at Q2 or clubs that start at Q1 may also replace them?

For the rebalancing of other spots at qualifying phase country ranking will be used. That's how I understand indirect rebalancing

So if I am correct then we have the following scenarios based on missing clubs at access list:

1. CL-W to CL-LS or a banned country has a club that has direct spot at CL-LS - direct rebalancing at CL-CH path
2. EL-W to CL-LS - direct rebalancing at CL-CH path or to CL-NC path
3. CL-W, EL-W or ECL-W at EL-LS or a banned country has a club that has direct spot at EL-LS - direct rebalancing at EL main path
4. Missing clubs at any of Q round of all competitions for any reason (CL-W, EL-W or ECL-W got spot at qualification of a competition, EL-W was replaced from CL-NC path so there is 1 club less at EL-Q3, banned country that has clubs at qualification) - indirect rebalancing

I don't understand why the are making a so complex system. Just the new rebalancing rules for THs would have been enough. We may also face some weird situations. eg if my understanding is correct then if Shakhtar wins domestic league and is promoted to LS due CL-W or EL-W rebalancing then direct rebalancing will be use to replace Shakhtar at CL-PO but if Shakhtar wins also EL and be promoted to CL-LS as EL-W then indirect rebalancing will be used. Different outcomes for the same reason.

[bert.kassies]

What I understand from the info @bert.kassies gave

If a club from the initial access list in missing from league stage then club with higher coefficient from qualifying round will replace it based on the the new rebalancing rules UEFA has already let us know.

Well, that's not exactly what I said. If the Champions League titleholder or the Europa League titleholder qualifies for the Europa League or Conference League by the domestic league then the open spot will be filled by indirect rebalancing (so by clubs from the next best association). The same holds true if the Conference League titleholder qualifies for the Conference League by the domestic league.