Transfer Topic

[Malko]

Pastore is announced in Liverpool, and Dembele should join Dortmund. This is okay as far as Rennes does not qualify for Europaligue, otherwise the club from brittany should keep him, as it is for all clubs qualifying for a european cup !

[Thunder_PT]

Remember how Hummels criticised Gotze for leaving for Bayern? Ah, the hypocrisy...

[Malko]

it's only about money, not about football anymore....pfff....

[nemesys]

it's only about money, not about football anymore....pfff....

After Bosman, it is mostly * about the will of the player *.

Thankfully now, football players are not like objects, they are professionists which are free to take decisions about what it is best for their careers.

Quick simplified example: the contract with Team A expires at the end of the next season, the player wishes to move to Team B, what can Team A do:
a. force the player (unhappy) to play in Team A next season, and make no money at the end of it (the contrac expires);
b. sell the player now, make some money, and invest it in other players.
There is an obvious better option, between the two above.

As long as the team is attractive to others good players, a good deal on a sale of a player to another club is never forcefully negative for a club. Another simplified example: Inter had to give up on Ibrahimovic when the Swedish asked to move to Barcelona; but got Eto'o plus money on the deal, and won the next CL with Milito-Eto'o. It is not like 50 players can be in the squad of a top club, for each good player coming in, one must go out.

If the team is not attractive enough for other quality players, or not economically able to pay the wages of top class players, then of course the club will be weaker losing its star player (and then it should invest in its youth system); but hey, why a talented player must be forced to give up on his hope to play for a more important club, win important trophies, and make a lot of money? It is * his life * after all. If Totti makes that choice never leaving Roma because it is his own will, awesome; but if Ibra instead likes new challanges and new bigger contracts, it is his life.

Bosman was good it happened, it is about people freedom, a player is less someone else property, and more a professionist with free will. All the big deal about it, like someone else already pointed out a couple fo posts above, is just excuses and hypocrisy. If it was your son having to make such choices, you would not blame him to chose what it is better for him self!

If your son was a football player willing to ccept an offer from Bayern, would your say to your son: "don't go to Bayern where you could win a CL and make 5M / year; stay in St-Etienne instead, where you get 1M / year and where it is extremely unlikely you will win such trophy"? Or "stay in a Luxemburg side to hope to raise up Luxemburg Uefa coefficient"? Obviously, no. It is about players lifes, not fans wishes.

As always, just my two cents.

[bugylibicska]

Chances are Manchester United will win the FA Cup. They might scrape fourth place and a spot in next season’s Champions League. And deadpan comic Louis van Gaal has had them rolling in the aisles with some cracking observational material about sex, the poor man’s Amy Schumer right on top of his game. Everything’s going swimmingly at Old Trafford right now, which may explain why the club have asked José Mourinho to hang around like a spare part for 12 months while Van Gaal sees out his contract. Mourinho, needless to say, wants the job now. There’ll be tears, and more leaks, before bedtime.

Chelsea have long since moved on, and their new beau, Antonio Conte, is planning a raid on his old Serie A stomping ground. The west London spendthrifts will whittle away £42m on the Napoli striker Gonzalo Higuaín. They’re also after Atlético Madrid’s man of the moment Antoine Griezmann, who will cost a further £79m. In a not-particularly-convincing sop to the reining-in of needless expenditure, they’ll also ask Juan Cuadrado to return from a loan spell at Juventus, while keeping hold of April-to-May scoring sensation Eden Hazard.

[Thunder_PT]

Chances are Manchester United will win the FA Cup. They might scrape fourth place and a spot in next season’s Champions League. And deadpan comic Louis van Gaal has had them rolling in the aisles with some cracking observational material about sex, the poor man’s Amy Schumer right on top of his game. Everything’s going swimmingly at Old Trafford right now, which may explain why the club have asked José Mourinho to hang around like a spare part for 12 months while Van Gaal sees out his contract. Mourinho, needless to say, wants the job now. There’ll be tears, and more leaks, before bedtime.

Chelsea have long since moved on, and their new beau, Antonio Conte, is planning a raid on his old Serie A stomping ground. The west London spendthrifts will whittle away £42m on the Napoli striker Gonzalo Higuaín. They’re also after Atlético Madrid’s man of the moment Antoine Griezmann, who will cost a further £79m. In a not-particularly-convincing sop to the reining-in of needless expenditure, they’ll also ask Juan Cuadrado to return from a loan spell at Juventus, while keeping hold of April-to-May scoring sensation Eden Hazard.

When it comes to Griezmann, they'll face tough competition from PSG.

[nemesys]

Chelsea have long since moved on, and their new beau, Antonio Conte

Overestimated arrogant cry boy lacking ethics and sportmanship. I feel sorry for Chelsea fans.

[bugylibicska]

Chelsea have long since moved on, and their new beau, Antonio Conte

Overestimated arrogant cry boy lacking ethics and sportmanship. I feel sorry for Chelsea fans.

I knew he was embroiled in match fixing scandals and remember him as a player. My impression exactly. Chelsea are toast.

[Lyonnais]

it's only about money, not about football anymore....pfff....

After Bosman, it is mostly * about the will of the player *.

Thankfully now, football players are not like objects, they are professionists which are free to take decisions about what it is best for their careers.

Quick simplified example: the contract with Team A expires at the end of the next season, the player wishes to move to Team B, what can Team A do:
a. force the player (unhappy) to play in Team A next season, and make no money at the end of it (the contrac expires);
b. sell the player now, make some money, and invest it in other players.
There is an obvious better option, between the two above.

As long as the team is attractive to others good players, a good deal on a sale of a player to another club is never forcefully negative for a club. Another simplified example: Inter had to give up on Ibrahimovic when the Swedish asked to move to Barcelona; but got Eto'o plus money on the deal, and won the next CL with Milito-Eto'o. It is not like 50 players can be in the squad of a top club, for each good player coming in, one must go out.

If the team is not attractive enough for other quality players, or not economically able to pay the wages of top class players, then of course the club will be weaker losing its star player (and then it should invest in its youth system); but hey, why a talented player must be forced to give up on his hope to play for a more important club, win important trophies, and make a lot of money? It is * his life * after all. If Totti makes that choice never leaving Roma because it is his own will, awesome; but if Ibra instead likes new challanges and new bigger contracts, it is his life.

Bosman was good it happened, it is about people freedom, a player is less someone else property, and more a professionist with free will. All the big deal about it, like someone else already pointed out a couple fo posts above, is just excuses and hypocrisy. If it was your son having to make such choices, you would not blame him to chose what it is better for him self!

If your son was a football player willing to ccept an offer from Bayern, would your say to your son: "don't go to Bayern where you could win a CL and make 5M / year; stay in St-Etienne instead, where you get 1M / year and where it is extremely unlikely you will win such trophy"? Or "stay in a Luxemburg side to hope to raise up Luxemburg Uefa coefficient"? Obviously, no. It is about players lifes, not fans wishes.

As always, just my two cents.

I agree with you generally speaking but there is also another issue to take into account it's the role of the agents.
If you work with agent X, you might be pushed to go to club Y or it might be extremely difficult to go to club Z.
So it's not only the will of the players. There is too much involved nowadays. Unfortunately.

[nemesys]

I agree with you generally speaking but there is also another issue to take into account it's the role of the agents.
If you work with agent X, you might be pushed to go to club Y or it might be extremely difficult to go to club Z.
So it's not only the will of the players. There is too much involved nowadays. Unfortunately.

This side consequence that you describe (against which I guess any player or club can fight in court, if the agent move was unreasonably unfair) can be true, but does not deny that Bosman was good to happen. Also, any player is free to represent himself (or use a relative to represent him) without a FIFA agent at all; or to change his agent, if not satisfyed, whenever he wishes to, I guess (and AfAIK); else, it would be very unfortunate, indeed.

[Malko]

""don't go to Bayern where you could win a CL and make 5M / year; stay in St-Etienne instead, where you get 1M / year and where it is extremely unlikely you will win such trophy"?

The problem is, that if they would stay at saint-Etienne, or elsewhere, it won't be improbable that they win a trophy with these clubs, like things happend before Bosman, and then also erarn maybe 3 Millions, while Bayern also only can pay 3 millions...Bosman made the big bigger and the small smaller, and that was no good.
Saint-Etienne and Bayern were on exactly the same level in 1976 !!!

[nemesys]

The problem is, that if they would stay at saint-Etienne, or elsewhere, it won't be improbable that they win a trophy with these clubs, like things happend before Bosman, and then also erarn maybe 3 Millions, while Bayern also only can pay 3 millions...Bosman made the big bigger and the small smaller, and that was no good.
Saint-Etienne and Bayern were on exactly the same level in 1976 !!!

...and a player was denied to play football if the club owning its "badge" (whatever the thing is called in English) wanted so: even after the contract expired, the club had property over the player. It is fair that a subject owns rights over someone else right to work? It is fair limiting the freedom of football players compared to other EU citizen and workers?

Bosman made the big bigger and the small smaller

Bosman did?

[Malko]

It is afact that since Bosman allowed the richest clubs in Europe to buy all the foreign players they want, there are only 5-6 clubs in Europe able to win the Champiosnleague, and maybe 20 to be among the last 8......they come ostly from 4-5 countries........This killed the competition. UEFA did the rest with group-stages ans so on, avoiding that the big ones are out in the beginning of the competition. They miss their 2 first games, no matter...there are 4 behind....all this makes that European cup is no more as interesting as it was before....
It was much better when an English club only had the right to have 2 non-english players, a german also, a spanish also aso.....where i must say that the spanish, french and german clubs (Real, Bayern, Barcelona and Paris excepted), built on players of their own country...

I remember a european game with Chelsea...there was one Englishman on the ground,....in the other team !

[nemesys]

It is afact that since Bosman allowed the richest clubs in Europe to buy all the foreign players they want, there are only 5-6 clubs in Europe able to win the Champiosnleague, and maybe 20 to be among the last 8......they come ostly from 4-5 countries........This killed the competition. UEFA did the rest with group-stages ans so on, avoiding that the big ones are out in the beginning of the competition. They miss their 2 first games, no matter...there are 4 behind....all this makes that European cup is no more as interesting as it was before....
It was much better when an English club only had the right to have 2 non-english players, a german also, a spanish also aso.....where i must say that the spanish, french and german clubs (Real, Bayern, Barcelona and Paris excepted), built on players of their own country...

I remember a european game with Chelsea...there was one Englishman on the ground,....in the other team !

Mon ami, you are blaming Bosman (or the European Court) for responsabilities witch are not of Bosman (or the European Court).

[scapulaire24]

There was 2 parts in the bosman judgement.
The first one is that a player can leave for free a team at the end of the contract.
It was already the case in some countries (including France) and, I think pretty anyone agrees with you and this rule.

But there was a second point, and this is the point who kill football :

The Bosman ruling also prohibited domestic football leagues in EU member states, and also UEFA, from imposing quotas on foreign players to the extent that they discriminated against nationals of EU states. At that time, many leagues placed quotas restricting the number of non-nationals allowed on member teams. Also, UEFA had a rule that prohibited teams in its competitions, namely the Champions League, Cup Winners' Cup and UEFA Cup, from naming more than three "foreign" players in their squads for any game. After the ruling, quotas could still be imposed, but could only be used to restrict the number of non-EU players on each team.