Coefficient calculation principles 21/22 onwards?
Wow. No change in CL (money is more than enough advantage). Difference between winning EL group vs being runner-up is gargantuan (3 bonus points and teams resuming competition 3 weeks later well-rested). Also ECL giving bonus points is a little too much to my taste but UEFA just made all lower ranking nations joyful by giving 2/1 points per win and draw in GS. UEFA solved this tricky equation splendidly.
Am I understanding correctly that clubs that win in ECL Q4 will not get any reward for their club coefficient for qualifying to ECL GS, unless they manage at least a win and a draw in the GS? Losing in ECL Q4 is the same as winning in ECL Q4 and then scoring 0-1-2 points in the GS. That is strange.
With these new bonus points for EL group winners and EL runners-up counting for country coefficient, I think there will be no doubt that countries in the fight for Top 15 will be better off coefficient-wise if their champions don't qualify for the CL, but play in EL instead. Most of them bust their asses for a mere point or two in CL and even if they scrape into the third place, they don't get any reward. Whereas runners up in EL GS will get 2 bonus points and will score plenty of points in 6 GS games.
All in all, for countries 7-15, getting to the CL GS with more than one club could prove detrimental, because the coefficient reward in EL is now very juicy. Even one club in CL GS will be bad for most countries considering the opportunity cost, so I think we'll have a lot of changes in the ranking positions between places 6-20.
Hmmm so many bonus points for EL... does not that make a 5-year country ranking rather biased towards post 2021 seasons? 4 bonus points for a team from a country with 4 representatives means 1 whole point more for the coefficient.
UEFA - We care about money. Pravda za Kolubaru!
It's actually 5 bonus points for winning the EL group: 4 bonus points for first place + 1 point for reaching EL-R16. So you get the same number of bonus points for winning the EL group, as you get for being first or second in a CL group. Not mentioning all the points you collect in the six matchdays of EL.
Meanwhile, CL bonus points stay exactly the same as before.
A massive, massive change which will impact the country rankings heavily.
As things stand, Celtic would be Pot 4 in CL-GS should they fight their way through the CL league route, but they'd be Pot 1 in EL. Naturally, Celtic would prefer to play in CL for obvious financial reasons, but for Scottish national coefficient, it's a no brainer. From the perspective of country ranking, EL Pot 1 trumps CL Pot 4 in almost every possible way.
The same for Croatia and Dinamo Zagreb
Pot 1 in EL, Pot 4 in CL. I need to prepare myself for rooting for some more Ferencvaros-esque upsets for our champions, like this season.
Meanwhile, CL bonus points stay exactly the same as before.
A massive, massive change which will impact the country rankings heavily.
As things stand, Celtic would be Pot 4 in CL-GS should they fight their way through the CL league route, but they'd be Pot 1 in EL. Naturally, Celtic would prefer to play in CL for obvious financial reasons, but for Scottish national coefficient, it's a no brainer. From the perspective of country ranking, EL Pot 1 trumps CL Pot 4 in almost every possible way.
The same for Croatia and Dinamo Zagreb
Pot 1 in EL, Pot 4 in CL. I need to prepare myself for rooting for some more Ferencvaros-esque upsets for our champions, like this season.Well pot 1 EL didn't help Celtic this year, did it?nogomet wrote: ↑Wed Jan 13, 2021 12:01 It's actually 5 bonus points for winning the EL group: 4 bonus points for first place + 1 point for reaching EL-R16. So you get the same number of bonus points for winning the EL group, as you get for being first or second in a CL group. Not mentioning all the points you collect in the six matchdays of EL.
Meanwhile, CL bonus points stay exactly the same as before.
A massive, massive change which will impact the country rankings heavily.
As things stand, Celtic would be Pot 4 in CL-GS should they fight their way through the CL league route, but they'd be Pot 1 in EL. Naturally, Celtic would prefer to play in CL for obvious financial reasons, but for Scottish national coefficient, it's a no brainer. From the perspective of country ranking, EL Pot 1 trumps CL Pot 4 in almost every possible way.
The same for Croatia and Dinamo Zagreb
Point stands of course, but surely it's better, long term, for teams to claim the CL money and grow stronger? And what are you trying to climb the ranking for? Don't qualify for CL so you can climb the ranking and qualify automatically for the CL?
The coefficient method (Won 2pts, Draw 1pt) worked wonderfully when UEFA competitions were all KO rounds.
With the current competition formats things are more complex.
With the current competition formats things are more complex.
These 5 bonuspoints are nice, but you have to take into account that these teams will not have the opportunity to collect any points in EL-1/16. So overall the average number of collected points will not increase that much for EL-group winners.nogomet wrote: ↑Wed Jan 13, 2021 12:01 It's actually 5 bonus points for winning the EL group: 4 bonus points for first place + 1 point for reaching EL-R16. So you get the same number of bonus points for winning the EL group, as you get for being first or second in a CL group. Not mentioning all the points you collect in the six matchdays of EL.
Meanwhile, CL bonus points stay exactly the same as before.
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mieszambeton
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The aim of the ranking is to have more teams playing in better competition
if you prefer to play the worse competition to score more ranking points - thats stupid thinking.
if you prefer to play the worse competition to score more ranking points - thats stupid thinking.
From my perspective, you climb the rankings not to have as many teams in CL groups, but to have as many guaranteed teams as possible in ANY group stage. When you're ranked below 15th place you need to pray to the heavens to have more than 1 club in the group stages. But when you rise to 11-15 or higher, suddenly a door opens for 2-3, even 4 clubs playing European football throughout the fall, which is a dream I've been dreaming about for a long time.
I might even prefer Croatian clubs to play in EL or ECL group stage than CL group stage, as with CL usually I don't have much to hope for. Not to mention the detrimental effect the CL money has to domestic leagues' competitive balance.
It's a long, risky road currently between winning the EL group and getting two wins in EL-R32. Getting guaranteed 5 bonus points for winning the EL group is much, much better.
Not true. The gap in privileges between Top 15 countries and countries below is too big. Thus if you want more than 1 club from your country to play in the group stages of any competition, you need to climb into the Top 15. Which will be much easier if your champion plays in EL-GS instead of CL-GS, especially if they are Pot 1 in EL, and Pot 4 in CL.mieszambeton wrote: ↑Wed Jan 13, 2021 12:28 The aim of the ranking is to have more teams playing in better competition
if you prefer to play the worse competition to score more ranking points - thats stupid thinking.
I've waited for 6 years to see two Croatian teams in the group stages of UEFA competitions. I don't want this drought to happen again.
You have to remember though that the new EL has 32 teams, not 48, and the big leagues still have 10 of these 32. So winning an EL Group will not be something easy for most teams.
Also 3rd place in the EL matters now, so we will have way less matches against teams with no motive in the end.
Also 3rd place in the EL matters now, so we will have way less matches against teams with no motive in the end.
Ah, so it's about getting 15th first. But DZ still doesn't often get out of a EL group, and the real prize is for winning the group. Wouldn't it be better to take the 4pts + 1-2 more for the CLQ4 win + 6 games to score more? It seems to me that's definitely better than coming 2nd in a EL group. You need 2 wins and a draw just to cover the absolute minimum you've lost from not getting CL.nogomet wrote: ↑Wed Jan 13, 2021 12:33From my perspective, you climb the rankings not to have as many teams in CL groups, but to have as many guaranteed teams as possible in ANY group stage. When you're ranked below 15th place you need to pray to the heavens to have more than 1 club in the group stages. But when you rise to 11-15 or higher, suddenly a door opens for 2-3, even 4 clubs playing European football throughout the fall, which is a dream I've been dreaming about for a long time.
I might even prefer Croatian clubs to play in EL or ECL group stage than CL group stage, as with CL usually I don't have much to hope for. Not to mention the detrimental effect the CL money has to domestic leagues' competitive balance.