UEFA CCC decides to scrap away goals rule

[rpo.castro]

So are you saying there is no advantage to playing at home?

Where did I say that?

You said next we'll hear the crowd has an influence in penalty shoot outs, so that would imply you think they don't have an influence in ET either, and therefore playing 30 minutes more home or away doesn't make a difference.

By the way, another suggestion, how about instead of penalties we have 1 on 1s? This has been trialled briefly in the past, although not really used. Personally I liked it whenever it was used. It seems it takes a bit more skill to score a 1 on 1 than a penalty. Perhaps with this people would not be as upset as they are with teams who go through on penalties.

No, that does imply nothing.
Home advantage exists, although has less influence then used to be. That is shown in the stats. And that is one, but not all, argument in favour to scrap away goals rules.

But for those who are "Oh my God more 30 minutes in one team stadium-let's scrap it" well then you should scrap PSO too, unless you think that home factor has influence in ET but not in PSO. But if you think again, maybe the best is to move both matches to neutral grounds because, the team that hosts the second leg, knows what results they need to advance, and they have the crowd behind them. But there is also people who like to have first match home, to built a good result and play in counter-attack in 2nd leg.

Maybe, if people only understood now that will always be some kind of advantage (and sometimes, teams with better classification play the 2nd leg at home) but they can't stand it, well, just get rid of the crowd. No unfairly advantage for anyone.

Or assume this is football and let this stay like this: 90 minutes home, 90 minutes away. ET if needed, PSO as last resource. ET+PSO away or home? Well you will have some at home and some away. It's life. Deal with it. Or score more in the 180 minutes. It's football, not a tv show.

[Polak]

then you should scrap PSO too, unless you think that home factor has influence in ET but not in PSO.

Do you have any stats to suggest even a slight advantage for home teams in penalty shoot outs though? I think half an hour extra of football at home is of an advantage, while a penalty shoot out at home isn't, unless you can prove otherwise.

I wouldn't mind one team having the slight potential advantage by playing the 2nd leg at home, if they have had to earn it somehow. A bit like how 1st placed teams in the CL group get to play the 2nd match of the 1/8 round at home, perhaps there could be a system that picks what teams play the 2nd leg at home in further rounds, based on merit?

[Overgame]

Good riddance.

[rpo.castro]

then you should scrap PSO too, unless you think that home factor has influence in ET but not in PSO.

Do you have any stats to suggest even a slight advantage for home teams in penalty shoot outs though? I think half an hour extra of football at home is of an advantage, while a penalty shoot out at home isn't, unless you can prove otherwise.

I wouldn't mind one team having the slight potential advantage by playing the 2nd leg at home, if they have had to earn it somehow. A bit like how 1st placed teams in the CL group get to play the 2nd match of the 1/8 round at home, perhaps there could be a system that picks what teams play the 2nd leg at home in further rounds, based on merit?

I don't have to prove you nothing.
And you have something to tell who plays the 1st leg home. Its called draw

[Polak]

I don't have to prove you nothing.
And you have something to tell who plays the 1st leg home. Its called draw

You seem to be very angry in this discussion.

[Overgame]

After tonight, somebody still likes the away goal rule? Sure, your team might be out while, with that rule, they would have qualified. But look at the wider pîcture: some games were "fights" until the last seconds.

[Lorric]

After tonight, somebody still likes the away goal rule? Sure, your team might be out while, with that rule, they would have qualified. But look at the wider pîcture: some games were "fights" until the last seconds.

If my team loses a match they would have won with away goals, it won't bother me. Kind of like how I prefer H2H over GD as a tie break, but it won't bother me if H2H would have brought a win in a GD competition. Rules are known beforehand and it would change the way the game was played.

My biggest problem with it is it gives a clear advantage to the home team in the second leg if it goes past the 90. Away goals sends less games past the 90 and is much more balanced if it does.

It reduces my interest in first legs but increases it in second legs. Personally I think this tradeoff is worse. As will be when my English teams start getting dragged into unnecessary extra times and penalty shootouts. Shootouts are fun when I don't care who wins but I hate them when I do care.

Jury's still out on whether scrapping it improves the quality of the football. I think we'd probably need at least a season's worth of data to begin answering that, in particular with the big boys in play. If it did make an appreciable positive impact on the product, I guess it would be worth the negatives.

[amenina]

CL Q1: 16 ties, 2 went to extra time, 0 went to penalties.
2 won by higher-coefficient team, 1 won by 2nd leg home team, 1 flip (i.e., different team would have advanced with away goals rule).

ECL Q1: 33 ties, 3 went to extra time (2 would have gone to extra time even with away goals rule), 1 went to penalties.
2 won by higher-coefficient team, 2 won by 2nd leg home team, 1 flip.

CL Q2: 13 ties, 1 went to extra time (would have gone to extra time even with away goals rule), 0 went to penalties,
0 won by lower-coefficient team, 1 won by 2nd leg home team, 0 flip.

ECL Q2: 54 ties, 11 went to extra time (7 would have gone to extra time even with away goals rule), 7 went to penalties.
5 won by higher-coefficient team, 3 won by 2nd leg home team, 3 flips.

[Wachtwoord]

After tonight, somebody still likes the away goal rule? Sure, your team might be out while, with that rule, they would have qualified. But look at the wider pîcture: some games were "fights" until the last seconds.

If my team loses a match they would have won with away goals, it won't bother me. Kind of like how I prefer H2H over GD as a tie break, but it won't bother me if H2H would have brought a win in a GD competition. Rules are known beforehand and it would change the way the game was played.

My biggest problem with it is it gives a clear advantage to the home team in the second leg if it goes past the 90. Away goals sends less games past the 90 and is much more balanced if it does.

It reduces my interest in first legs but increases it in second legs. Personally I think this tradeoff is worse. As will be when my English teams start getting dragged into unnecessary extra times and penalty shootouts. Shootouts are fun when I don't care who wins but I hate them when I do care.

Jury's still out on whether scrapping it improves the quality of the football. I think we'd probably need at least a season's worth of data to begin answering that, in particular with the big boys in play. If it did make an appreciable positive impact on the product, I guess it would be worth the negatives.

This. I don't necessarily like the away goals rule. I really hate this alternative. It's even more unfair. It's incredibly advantageous to the team getting to play the second match at home.

If you don't want away goal rule you need to make room in the schedule for a neutral ground rematch. I know there is no room, so stick with the old system.

[SteffenM]

CL Q2: 13 ties, 1 went to extra time (would have gone to extra time even with away goals rule), 0 went to penalties,
0 won by lower-coefficient team, 1 won by 2nd leg home team, 0 flip.

Midtjylland was lower coefficient then Celtic?

[matt]

In ECL QR2 7 ties were decided by penalties. 5 won by the away team, 1 by the home team, and the last one was played on a neutral venue.
4 ties were decided by extra-time, and 3 of them were won by the away team.

[Overgame]

CLqR1: 2 ET 1 home qualifications
CLqR2: 1ET 1 home qualifications
ECLqR1: 3ET 2 home qualification (PK: 1 - 0)
ECLqR2: 11ET 3 home qualifications (PK: 2 - 5)

Total: 17 ET 7 home qualifications (PK 3 - 5)

We'll see over time, but we are far from a "huge advantage for the home team"'.

[SimonB]

CLqR1: 2 ET 1 home qualifications
CLqR2: 1ET 1 home qualifications
ECLqR1: 3ET 2 home qualification (PK: 1 - 0)
ECLqR2: 11ET 3 home qualifications (PK: 2 - 5)

Total: 17 ET 7 home qualifications (PK 3 - 5)

We'll see over time, but we are far from a "huge advantage for the home team"'.

It looks like the main anomaly so far is the PK's which are going against the historical trend posted by JPV on page 9 of this thread in response to a query that I had. Let us see where we are at the end of a full season, the total numbers are still low at the moment.

[Overgame]

CLqR1: 2 ET 1 home qualifications
CLqR2: 1ET 1 home qualifications
ECLqR1: 3ET 2 home qualification (PK: 1 - 0)
ECLqR2: 11ET 3 home qualifications (PK: 2 - 5)

Total: 17 ET 7 home qualifications (PK 3 - 5)

We'll see over time, but we are far from a "huge advantage for the home team"'.

It looks like the main anomaly so far is the PK's which are going against the historical trend posted by JPV on page 9 of this thread in response to a query that I had. Let us see where we are at the end of a full season, the total numbers are still low at the moment.

7 - 10 (4-5) is consistent with 50-50. 3-5 is consistent with JPV's stat.
I am just pointing that the "home team has a bigger advantage" doesn't seem to hold.

[Polak]

My biggest problem with it is it gives a clear advantage to the home team in the second leg if it goes past the 90.

The only way I see around this is to just have penalties after 180 minutes if it's still level. Of course the problem then is too many penalty shoot outs to decide ties, although let's face it, in international tournaments if you can't separate teams with 2 hours of football, you get penalties. Here you get 3 hours to do it. Do we really need the extra half an hour? Can we think of many CL ties (not finals) that have been decided in extra time, rather than penalties? Does that extra half an hour produce a winner?