New Champions League at 2024 and on

[OlliWender]

I can see Uefa not being too happy having no Spanish team in the inaugural ECL thanks to Villarreal winning EL.

[OlliWender]

Ok, I was under the impression that Uefa would try to change as little as possible, thus keep it at 5/10 matches for that route.

Now I don't understand you

With 6 clubs from EL-Q3ch and 4 clubs from ECL-Q3ch there will be 10 clubs in ECL-POch.

Only just thought of that.
With the two paths having an uneven number, Uefa would have to put all teams in the same bowl and couldn't split EL and ECL routes evenly as "seeded" or "unseeded" anymore.

[TommyChat]

Ok, I was under the impression that Uefa would try to change as little as possible, thus keep it at 5/10 matches for that route.

Now I don't understand you

With 6 clubs from EL-Q3ch and 4 clubs from ECL-Q3ch there will be 10 clubs in ECL-POch.

Only just thought of that.
With the two paths having an uneven number, Uefa would have to put all teams in the same bowl and couldn't split EL and ECL routes evenly as "seeded" or "unseeded" anymore.

They can still split them until there is no unseeded team left, like they are doing in the ECL ChP 2nd QR, where CL PR losers are unseeded.

Edit: From 2018 to 2020 in EL ChP PO there where 6 losers from CL Q3 and 10 winners from EL Q3 and they used to split them until there was no seeded team left

[SteffenM]

This maximum may change in 2024. I've heard there are discussions about a new way of rebalancing. An open spot in the EL/ECL access list (e.g. by taking CL-TH or EL-TH spot in CL-GS) would be filled by another club of the same country, but without leapfrogging. All clubs of that country would shift to the next higher spot, and the last ECL spot would be taken by an additional club. E.g. if the country were Spain they would still have 2 clubs in EL-GS and 1 club in ECL-PO, despite having an extra club in CL. This needs to be confirmed by UEFA, of course.

But suppose it's true, what do you think of such a proposal?

That depends on whenever I understand it

So actually a country can have 11 spots?
Or if there is a max of 5 CL spots, then the 4th and 5th spot moves down to EL, together with the ECL-TH
the country will have 9 spots?

In the scenario above?

With UEFA making things more and more complex, the possible scenarios are also getting slightly weirder.
But rules should be ready for anything right?

I guess I prefer something like this:
1st - CL
2nd - CL
3rd - CL
CL TH - CL
EL TH - CL
4th/FA winner - EL
5th - EL
ECL TH - EL
6th - EL
7th/League cup winner - ECL

or maybe better

1st - CL
2nd - CL
3rd - CL
CL TH - CL
EL TH - CL
4th/FA winner - EL
5th - EL
ECL TH - EL
6th/League cup winner - ECL

This could open for some weird situation if the FA and League cup winner also wouldn't be in the top 6/7.
And some teams would rightly feel somewhat disappointed. I feel though a maximum of 9 spots for a country seems fair.
Also really hope this scenario never would be real.

[Ricardo]

This maximum may change in 2024. I've heard there are discussions about a new way of rebalancing. An open spot in the EL/ECL access list (e.g. by taking CL-TH or EL-TH spot in CL-GS) would be filled by another club of the same country, but without leapfrogging. All clubs of that country would shift to the next higher spot, and the last ECL spot would be taken by an additional club. E.g. if the country were Spain they would still have 2 clubs in EL-GS and 1 club in ECL-PO, despite having an extra club in CL. This needs to be confirmed by UEFA, of course.

But suppose it's true, what do you think of such a proposal?

I would hate it. Top 4 countries are already over- represented and this would lead to even more teams from top4. 6 teams is more than enough for 1 country.

[mitsaras]

So about maximum spots.
Let's take a scenario. England does well in the previous season, and also win CL, EL and ECL, for non-top 7 teams.

So England would have the normal 4 CL + 2 EL + 1 ECL spot = 7
And extra CL (wild card) = 1 CL
3 extra TH spots. 2 CL + 1 EL = 3

In total England would have "won" 11 spots (7 CL, 3 EL, 1 ECL)

Max CL for 5 spots, any max in total?

I guess a max for CL would apply at 5. So it would be top 3 and the CL and EL - TH, who would get this?

ECL TH would of course go to EL with the 4th best placed team?
then there is 4 more. One in EL, one in ECL, and 2 dissapointed clubs?

In this scenario England will have the best coefficient. So they deserve an extra team in CL. What happens with this spot? Do the 3rd best country take this extra spot?

[mitsaras]

Yes, I agree. With 32 clubs in CL-Q1 the combinations in other parts of the access list are much better.

Hello Bert! Do you plan to publish a 3.1 example for 2024 access list without preliminary round?

[eye]

This maximum may change in 2024. I've heard there are discussions about a new way of rebalancing. An open spot in the EL/ECL access list (e.g. by taking CL-TH or EL-TH spot in CL-GS) would be filled by another club of the same country, but without leapfrogging. All clubs of that country would shift to the next higher spot, and the last ECL spot would be taken by an additional club. E.g. if the country were Spain they would still have 2 clubs in EL-GS and 1 club in ECL-PO, despite having an extra club in CL. This needs to be confirmed by UEFA, of course.

But suppose it's true, what do you think of such a proposal?

This is a very bad idea. If this happen it is very likely a country to have 6 clubs at CL. Also most likely this country will be at top 2 at country ranking since clubs from this country won both CL and EL so there will be 7 clubs from this country at CL and 10 totally at european competitions. I think this is too much. I also don't like that they are giving 2 GS spots to additional clubs of the best 2 countries at country ranking. Of course they want to give more clubs to top countries but it would have been better if they simply had given spots to CL-po to the 5th clubs of top 4 countries. If all these clubs could qualify to CL fine if none could again it would be fine and these clubs would be at EL GS. Plus in case of the EL winner had qualified to CL the #1 ranked country would have 5 clubs to CL directly so being the #1 country would have a meaning.

[bert.kassies]

This maximum may change in 2024. I've heard there are discussions about a new way of rebalancing. An open spot in the EL/ECL access list (e.g. by taking CL-TH or EL-TH spot in CL-GS) would be filled by another club of the same country, but without leapfrogging. All clubs of that country would shift to the next higher spot, and the last ECL spot would be taken by an additional club. E.g. if the country were Spain they would still have 2 clubs in EL-GS and 1 club in ECL-PO, despite having an extra club in CL. This needs to be confirmed by UEFA, of course.

But suppose it's true, what do you think of such a proposal?

This is a very bad idea. If this happen it is very likely a country to have 6 clubs at CL. Also most likely this country will be at top 2 at country ranking since clubs from this country won both CL and EL so there will be 7 clubs from this country at CL and 10 totally at european competitions. I think this is too much. I also don't like that they are giving 2 GS spots to additional clubs of the best 2 countries at country ranking. Of course they want to give more clubs to top countries but it would have been better if they simply had given spots to CL-po to the 5th clubs of top 4 countries. If all these clubs could qualify to CL fine if none could again it would be fine and these clubs would be at EL GS. Plus in case of the EL winner had qualified to CL the #1 ranked country would have 5 clubs to CL directly so being the #1 country would have a meaning.

I was referring only to the total maximum and to the rebalancing of empty spots in EL/ECL.

[bert.kassies]

Yes, I agree. With 32 clubs in CL-Q1 the combinations in other parts of the access list are much better.

Hello Bert! Do you plan to publish a 3.1 example for 2024 access list without preliminary round?

No, not until some more facts are confirmed by UEFA or new info from other sources becomes available.

[eye]

This maximum may change in 2024. I've heard there are discussions about a new way of rebalancing. An open spot in the EL/ECL access list (e.g. by taking CL-TH or EL-TH spot in CL-GS) would be filled by another club of the same country, but without leapfrogging. All clubs of that country would shift to the next higher spot, and the last ECL spot would be taken by an additional club. E.g. if the country were Spain they would still have 2 clubs in EL-GS and 1 club in ECL-PO, despite having an extra club in CL. This needs to be confirmed by UEFA, of course.

But suppose it's true, what do you think of such a proposal?

This is a very bad idea. If this happen it is very likely a country to have 6 clubs at CL. Also most likely this country will be at top 2 at country ranking since clubs from this country won both CL and EL so there will be 7 clubs from this country at CL and 10 totally at european competitions. I think this is too much. I also don't like that they are giving 2 GS spots to additional clubs of the best 2 countries at country ranking. Of course they want to give more clubs to top countries but it would have been better if they simply had given spots to CL-po to the 5th clubs of top 4 countries. If all these clubs could qualify to CL fine if none could again it would be fine and these clubs would be at EL GS. Plus in case of the EL winner had qualified to CL the #1 ranked country would have 5 clubs to CL directly so being the #1 country would have a meaning.

I was referring only to the total maximum and to the rebalancing of empty spots in EL/ECL.

I didn't probably understand correctly what you mean. Could you give me an example to understand it? Real Madrid is CLW and also Spain's CH and Roma is ECLW and Italy's N5 this season. How will the rebalancing work at these cases?

[mitsaras]

No, not until some more facts are confirmed by UEFA or new info from other sources becomes available.

Thanks for your message! You are right! It's a minor change.. looking forward to new information! As soon as possible we hope..

[bert.kassies]

I didn't probably understand correctly what you mean. Could you give me an example to understand it? Real Madrid is CLW and also Spain's CH and Roma is ECLW and Italy's N5 this season. How will the rebalancing work at these cases?

The rebalancing in this case is the same as it always has been. Since Real and Roma both qualified for the group stage by domestic league as well as title holder, the empty spots in the group stage are just filled by clubs that would otherwise have entered the qualifying phase.

But suppose that Roma was not ECL-TH but EL-TH than they would start in the CL group stage. That would have created an empty spot in the EL group stage, and because there is now only one Italian club in the EL group stage (Lazio), the ECL club Fiorentina would have been promoted to EL-GS, and an additional Italian club (Atalanta) would have been allowed to enter ECL-PO. At least, that is my understanding of a discussions about a change in rebalancing from 2024 onwards. The aim would be to preserve the quality of EL and ECL.

[Forza AZ]

The aim would be to preserve the quality of EL and ECL.

Translation: Get (even) more teams from top countries in Europe.

[OlliWender]

And preserve the tv interest in those competitions. Did they even broadcast ECL in Spain without a team of their own?

Also, looking at who benefits most from 12 additional group stage spots:
- 3 most likely for Top 5 (top 2 coefficient countries most likely of top 4 nations + 3rd CL spot for No 5)
- 3 extra champions guarenteed, so most likely outside top 20 benefit (overall from 34 up to 37 nations represented)
- The other 6 spots are most likely League Path related, so who do we think benefits most from those?