German Football 2022/23

Domestic league and cup football
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Club-Mate
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Post by Club-Mate »

ultra2013 wrote: Sat Nov 05, 2022 23:14 Leipzig is a plastic club with financial backing from Red Bull. Unfortunately, I wouldn't be surprised if Dietrich Mateschitz dead can affect this club as much as Volkswagen scandal did to Wolfsburg when the wolves were at their peak. In no time, the CEO of RB Leipzig have left the club and probably more changes are coming behind the scenes. RB Leipzig could disappear in 5 years.
RasenBallsport Leipzig is just one of xx companies within Red Bull sports universe. FC Red Bull Salzburg and EC Red Bull Salzburg do posses a perpetual financial guarantee of Red Bull support paid out yearly if needed otherwise this money will be credited to their capital reserves for later use or retained. RB Leipzig does not posses this special right they can be partly or fully sold to investors, undergo termination of business operation or undergo other changes like all the other RB companies. RB Leipzig is not part of one of these private foundations of DM and his son so they are completely dependent on the will of both (statutory 3) shareholders/proprietors of Red Bull company. The duties of all managers of RB companies are just on operational level they are just (well paid) employees. All the major strategic decisions are always in the hands of the shareholders/owners.
It's been three years since € 100 million were converted into a capital reserve thanks to Mateschitz. "Red Bull co. released Leipzig 100 million of debts" it was said at that time. Such gifts are likely to be avoided in the future.
RB Leipzig could disappear in 5 years
it's in Mr. M. and Mr. Yo. (owners and stakeholders) hands only to make all strategical decisions. All the other managers are just operational staff. Who will decide if Leipzig wants to get one more 100 mio from Red Bull? certainly not this new German manager. To make to paint out the rooms in RBL cabins or to buy new equipment for their existing TV channel he could do (just to say it literally). There are more than a handfull CEO's of them like in finance (CFO) beverage, strategic advisors etc. Final decisions of this importance (100 mio loan) are made by the shareholders/owners only. CFO, CEO and so on can be fired at any time but you never can fire an owner (who should do this?). Common logic sense already would help to understand this. Just google blindly is not always the best advisor.
If Leipzig make it to CL regularly and receiving this uefa money most of years their survival is more or less guaranteed I would say. Problems only occur if they can't reach this level anymore so Red Bull likely won't inject too much money and they could fall down to midfield or even lower. As mentioned before RBL is not so much a big rated media tiger for RB like F1 or even New York Red Bulls which can contribute more on media basis because one reason is that they can show their RB logo all the time and everywhere. The name Rasenballsport must feel like a bad joke for the marketing obsessed Red Bull family.

I would not be so much optimistic for Frankfurt to raise much money in financial metropole of Frankfurt. They have to depend on their sports merits as it used to be in past. They published heavy red figures for the last 2 years despite winning the Europe League (see annual reports) they hardly can sell their 50+1 part to an investor because of special domestic rules and have to rely on normal sponsors if I recon correctly. This year it should be much better with CL participation. Let's wait what the figures will tell here.
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Post by matt »

Vincenzino Grifo on fire, three goals in 20 minutes!
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rpo.castro
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Post by rpo.castro »

How is the match at Allianz Arena?
ultra2013
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Post by ultra2013 »

Bundesliga is over until 2023. A current picture of the 2023-24 season broadcasting (domestic and international) revenue would be roughly:

Image

Bayern is the unique upper-class of German football. Dortmund is now in the upper-middle class.
Leipzig and Frankfurt cannot complain Bundesliga is not giving them the money to compete at European level. Leverkusen complete the upper-middle-class of German football.
Freiburg and Union have joined the middle-class along with Wolfsburg, Gladbach and Hoffenheim.
The rest will need to be smart or creative to compete for an European spot in the near future.
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Lyonnais
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Post by Lyonnais »

WS marks - Update after MD15 (average of the best 8 performances)


Top 10

8.26 Jamal Musiala (Bayern, AMC, 19, GER)
8.13 Vincenzo Grifo (Freiburg, AML, 29, ITA)
8.09 Joshua Kimmich (Bayern, DMC, 27, GER)
8.06 Christopher Nkunku (Leipzig, FW, 25, FRA)
8.06 Michael Gregoritsch (Freiburg, FW, 28, AUT)
8.05 Jude Bellingham (Dortmund, DMC, 19, ENG)
8.05 Serge Gnabry (Bayern, AMR, 27, GER)
8.04 Niclas Füllkrug (Bremen, FW, 29, GER)
7.92 Marcus Thuram (Mönchengladbach, FW, 25, FRA)
7.82 Dominik Szoboszlai (Leipzig, AMC, 22, HUN)
etc.


Best XI

.................... V.Grifo (Freiburg) - J.Musiala (Bayern) - S.Gnabry (Bayern) .....................
.............. J.Bellingham (Dortmund) - M.Arnold (Wolfsburg)- J.Kimmich (Bayern) ..............
R.Bensebaini (M'Gladbach) - W.Orban (Leipzig) - K.Mavropanos (Stuttgart) - M.Weiser (Bremen)
........................................ R.Gikiewicz (Augsburg) .............................................


U21 Players

8.26 Jamal Musiala (Bayern, AMC, 19, GER)
8.05 Jude Bellingham (Dortmund, DMC, 19, ENG)
7.26 Youssoufa Moukoko (Dortmund, FW, 17, GER)
etc.


Best per club

8.26 Jamal Musiala (Bayern, AMC, 19, GER)
8.13 Vincenzo Grifo (Freiburg, AML, 29, ITA)
8.06 Christopher Nkunku (Leipzig, FW, 25, FRA)
7.76 Randal Kolo Muani (Frankfurt, FW, 23, FRA)
7.58 Sheraldo Becker (Union, FW, 27, NED)
8.05 Jude Bellingham (Dortmund, DMC, 19, ENG)
7.73 Maximilian Arnold (Wolfsburg, MC, 28, GER)
7.92 Marcus Thuram (Mönchengladbach, FW, 25, FRA)
8.04 Niclas Füllkrug (Bremen, FW, 29, GER)
7.42 Anton Stach (Mainz, MC, 24, GER)
7.51 Christoph Baumgartner (Hoffenheim, MC, 23, AUT)
7.76 Moussa Diaby (Leverkusen, FWR, 23, FRA)
7.67 Florian Kainz (Köln, AML, 30, AUT)
7.79 Rafal Gikiewicz (Augsburg, GK, 35, POL)
7.61 Dodi Lukébakio (Hertha, FWR, 25, BEL)
7.56 Konstantinos Mavropanos (Stuttgart, DC, 24, GRE)
7.70 Manuel Riemann (Bochum, GK, 34, GER)
7.04 Simon Terrodde (Schalke, FW, 34, GER)
Don't forget to post your predictions for the new season
viewtopic.php?p=563580#p563580
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BurningStorm
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Post by BurningStorm »

Club-Mate wrote: Sat Nov 12, 2022 14:36 it's in Mr. M. and Mr. Yo. (owners and stakeholders) hands only to make all strategical decisions. All the other managers are just operational staff. Who will decide if Leipzig wants to get one more 100 mio from Red Bull? certainly not this new German manager. To make to paint out the rooms in RBL cabins or to buy new equipment for their existing TV channel he could do (just to say it literally). There are more than a handfull CEO's of them like in finance (CFO) beverage, strategic advisors etc. Final decisions of this importance (100 mio loan) are made by the shareholders/owners only. CFO, CEO and so on can be fired at any time but you never can fire an owner (who should do this?). Common logic sense already would help to understand this. Just google blindly is not always the best advisor.
The high-rated "Manager magazin" wrote:

"Neben Mateschitz' Sohn Mark und dem thailändischen Anteilseigner wird Mintzlaff einer von drei mächtigen Männern der weltweit bekannten Marke. Er soll die Sportaktivitäten des Unternehmens mit Investments unter anderem im Fußball, Eishockey, Formel 1 und Segeln ebenso wie den TV-Sender Servus-TV verantworten."

https://www.manager-magazin.de/unterneh ... e7ffec647e

It was the personal wish of Mateschitz himself, so Mintzlaff was his 'chosen one' in the sports sector. There are actually three CEO's as you hopefully know, but in the important sports sector Mintzlaff is 'the guy' now.

Regarding the 100 mio - nobody said this. But it's very unlikely that RB Leipzig will disappear as some people think. I mean, I wouldn't mind if all of their clubs disappear. :grin1: A more possible scenario would be that Mintzlaff gives Leipzig are higher priority than already before compared to Salzburg, in terms of budgets etc. Also just speculation, though.

btw, it seems like Salzburg are not very euphoric about Mr. Mintzlaff:

"Mit Oliver Mintzlaff nimmt ein deutscher Top-Manager die sportlichen Zügel in die Hand. Der 47-Jährige gilt als machtorientiert und ehrgeizig. In der Mozartstadt hat sich der ehemalige Langstreckenläufer aber kaum Freunde gemacht." https://www.krone.at/2849212

Oh, your remark about googling it: I googled for a quick random link in English, just to include a source for this forum. In German I read articles of different newspapers and websites. "Google blindly" :D And by the way 2.0, we all know how a company is working, that was not the point. Nobody said Mintzlaff is the new owner. :fingal:
As mentioned before RBL is not so much a big rated media tiger for RB like F1 or even New York Red Bulls which can contribute more on media basis because one reason is that they can show their RB logo all the time and everywhere. The name Rasenballsport must feel like a bad joke for the marketing obsessed Red Bull family.
Ahm, didn't you know that in the important Champions League, Leipzig's name is "RB Leipzig" while Salzburg's is "FC Salzburg"? And when we compare the logos of both clubs in UEFA competitions, the Leipzig one is clearly more similar to the original RB logo.

https://www.uefa.com/nationalassociatio ... -salzburg/
https://www.uefa.com/nationalassociatio ... b-leipzig/
RB Logo: https://turbologo.com/articles/wp-conte ... l-Logo.png

And New York? The MLS is far, far behind the other US leagues (NFL, NBA, NHL, MLB), they don't come even close to UEFA CL as the biggest stage in club football. Of course the American market is important, but in this context the comparison is laughable. Yes, RasenballSport sounds idiotic, but at least they can use the short version of RB Leipzig in the CL this way.
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Post by mspm89 »

BurningStorm wrote: Thu Nov 17, 2022 12:38 And New York? The MLS is far, far behind the other US leagues (NFL, NBA, NHL, MLB), they don't come even close to UEFA CL as the biggest stage in club football. Of course the American market is important, but in this context the comparison is laughable. Yes, RasenballSport sounds idiotic, but at least they can use the short version of RB Leipzig in the CL this way.
You know, I dread the day football gets big enough in the US to make it feasible for them to be WC winners, but last time I checked, MLS wasn't doing bad at all, more or less catching up to NHL (with the sport itself being considered too Canadian by some and the league being 25% Canadian) and threatening MLB in the future, especially in some markets (the Cascadian clubs in particular seem to have a passionate following).
ultra2013
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Post by ultra2013 »

The manager of Die Nationalmannschaft is no more.
Hansi Flick will be out too in coming days.
The CEO of Bundesliga, Donata Hopfen, is no more.
These should be the darkest times in German Football since early 2000's.
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Post by rpo.castro »

ultra2013 wrote: Wed Dec 07, 2022 19:36 The manager of Die Nationalmannschaft is no more.
Hansi Flick will be out too in coming days.
The CEO of Bundesliga, Donata Hopfen, is no more.
These should be the darkest times in German Football since early 2000's.
DFB already confirmed Hansi Flick will continue until 2024.
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Post by matt »

ultra2013 wrote: Wed Dec 07, 2022 19:36 These should be the darkest times in German Football since early 2000's.
Really? I think that despite going out in the group stage, Germany didn't play bad. I don't think that judgements based only on results help, especially in short competitions like the World Cup.
2018 and 2020(1) Germamy were worse imo.

For instance, if we compare France - Germany and England - Germany of last year with Spain - Germany of a few days ago i see an improvement.
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BurningStorm
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Post by BurningStorm »

matt wrote: Wed Dec 07, 2022 22:33
ultra2013 wrote: Wed Dec 07, 2022 19:36 These should be the darkest times in German Football since early 2000's.
Really? I think that despite going out in the group stage, Germany didn't play bad. I don't think that judgements based only on results help, especially in short competitions like the World Cup.
2018 and 2020(1) Germamy were worse imo.

For instance, if we compare France - Germany and England - Germany of last year with Spain - Germany of a few days ago i see an improvement.
I agree. And sacking Bierhoff after 18 years plus sacking this strange woman as CEO of Bundesliga, is actually a great thing. Would have been interesting to sack Flick as well and sign Thomas Tuchel, but now it seems like Flick stays.
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Post by Oldelpaso »

Neuer has broken his leg while skiing. I always thought players had clauses in their contracts forbidding high risk activities like that.
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Post by ultra2013 »

Frauen-Bundesliga (FBL) until the winter break:

CL-GS: Wolfsburg
CL-Q2: Bayern
CL-Q1: Frankfurt
Relegated to 2FBL: Bremen, Potsdam
Promoted from 2FBL: Leipzig, Andernach

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BurningStorm
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Post by BurningStorm »

Oldelpaso wrote: Sat Dec 10, 2022 13:21 Neuer has broken his leg while skiing. I always thought players had clauses in their contracts forbidding high risk activities like that.
Yes, it is the case. But Neuer did "ski touring" which apparently is allowed. It's different, and more or less a slow sport.

Now Bayern need to sign a keeper for the 2nd half of the season. Their second keeper is not very reliable. They could negotiate with Monaco to bring back Nübel, a half year before the loan contract ends. At least this seems to be the most realistic solution according to some sources.

First Hernandez out for the rest of the season, now Neuer... Doesn't help if you face PSG in CL.
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Post by matt »

Why is the winter break so long? It's not like winters are too cold nowadays in Germany, today 10° in Berlin.
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