It's different because you can't have a World Cup with only 6 teams whereas you can have a proper competition with 54 champions.Overgame wrote: ↑Tue Jan 09, 2024 19:11World Cup. Confederations don't have the same number of spots. Do you have issues with teams finishing 2nd of their group in Europe and still qualifying? Or 3rd in Asia? Or 5th in South America?Ambro wrote: ↑Tue Jan 09, 2024 17:27If the domestic leagues are the qualifiers, some might argue that only one team should qualify from each league. If you finish 4th in Premier League for instance, how can you claim that you are eligible to play in an competition to decide the best in Europe when 3 teams are better than you in your own national league?
New Champions League at 2024 and on
At this point, you basically continue to assume that they "fear" the qualifiers. You have 10 years of data, why do you brush it away and continue with this baseless claim? They are annoyed to have to play two meaningful games this early, but they don't fear them.bjkman1903 wrote: ↑Tue Jan 09, 2024 19:56 If number 3 and 4 of big leagues are so strong, they shouldn't fear anyone in the qualifiers.
Be honest, you don't like the fact that the runner-up in the leagues around Turkey cannot get an easy way in CL. Who got the spots? Champions from lower countries.
@Ambro "that's different" = special pleading. Argument dismissed. You can.
@Overgame Are you an official judge here? When I said you can't I meant it's not an attractive competition ( see FIFA Confederations Cup ) whereas the old Champions Cup was a respected competition.
When I said you can't I meant it's not an attractive competition ( see FIFA Confederations Cup ) whereas the old Champions Cup was a respected competition.@Ambro Are you?
And even without that, what you are doing is just special pleading.
WC: 32 teams from a pool of 200+
CL: 32 teams from a pool of ... (I don't really know, between 500 and 1000 I guess)
You don't mind FIFA giving more spots to some confederations, but you do with UEFA. Double standards.
And even without that, what you are doing is just special pleading.
WC: 32 teams from a pool of 200+
CL: 32 teams from a pool of ... (I don't really know, between 500 and 1000 I guess)
You don't mind FIFA giving more spots to some confederations, but you do with UEFA. Double standards.
@Overgame Of course I'm not but I can see you are very quick to judge. Anyway, I just don't see a parallel between World Cup and Champions League.
How much the UEFA qualification system for the CL has failed is best said that even 2 of the strongest 16 clubs in Europe this season will probably not have the opportunity to play even in the CL qualifications next year. 
We are talking about big clubs from small countries, Porto and Copenhagen are only third in the domestic leagues and if they finish third they will not have a chance to play even in the CL qualifiers.
On the other hand, some clubs that Porto and Copenhagen beat in the CL
they will get direct places in CL thanks to UEFA privileges. This is the main reason why all direct places should be abolished and all clubs should be sent to the qualifiers. In this way, it's not just the best who play in the CL, but the most privileged.
We are talking about big clubs from small countries, Porto and Copenhagen are only third in the domestic leagues and if they finish third they will not have a chance to play even in the CL qualifiers.On the other hand, some clubs that Porto and Copenhagen beat in the CL
they will get direct places in CL thanks to UEFA privileges. This is the main reason why all direct places should be abolished and all clubs should be sent to the qualifiers. In this way, it's not just the best who play in the CL, but the most privileged.
Copenhagen won 2 matches totally against Galatasaray and Manchester United. Only Manchester United can qualify to CL-LS directly but seems unlikely since they are something like 10 points away from CL spots. Porto won against 4 matches totally 2 against Antwerp and 2 against Shakhtar. Antwerp can qualify to CL-LS if they win domestic league but are currently 15 points away from top and Ukraine has no direct spot and Shakhtar is not even at top yet. So actually no club that have won will have direct access.
"I don't see a parallel". I need to fix you comment "I don't want to see any parallel".
Football competitions involving hundred of teams, qualifying for a of 32 teams tournament with the top 2 qualifying for a cup-like tournament to win a title.
Last edited by Overgame on Wed Jan 10, 2024 04:07, edited 1 time in total.
Shakhtar and Galatasaray will play in the qualifiers and will almost certainly go to the CL. A whole series of worse clubs than Porto and Copenhagen regularly have direct places in the CL, and for these there are no places even in the qualifications. This is especially strange for the Portuguese league, which really has 4 very strong clubs that are always competitive.eye wrote: ↑Wed Jan 10, 2024 02:35Copenhagen won 2 matches totally against Galatasaray and Manchester United. Only Manchester United can qualify to CL-LS directly but seems unlikely since they are something like 10 points away from CL spots. Porto won against 4 matches totally 2 against Antwerp and 2 against Shakhtar. Antwerp can qualify to CL-LS if they win domestic league but are currently 15 points away from top and Ukraine has no direct spot and Shakhtar is not even at top yet. So actually no club that have won will have direct access.
There is no place for them in the CL qualifiers because UEFA distributes the vast majority of places in the CL to the privileged.
I suppose you refer to teams like Stuttgart in Bundesliga that have good chances to get a ticket, or Girona, Aston Villa, or even Bologna. But if they are in top positions is not for free. It means they surpassed other strong clubs in the stronger domestic championships. Stuttgart is playing their "qualifiers" right now. They defeated Dortmund, Union Berlin, Freiburg, Frankfurt and draw Leverkusen i.e., performed well vs several european teams. Time will tell, if they get UCL or just UEL.babaluj1 wrote: ↑Wed Jan 10, 2024 03:55Shakhtar and Galatasaray will play in the qualifiers and will almost certainly go to the CL. A whole series of worse clubs than Porto and Copenhagen regularly have direct places in the CL, and for these there are no places even in the qualifications. This is especially strange for the Portuguese league, which really has 4 very strong clubs that are always competitive.eye wrote: ↑Wed Jan 10, 2024 02:35Copenhagen won 2 matches totally against Galatasaray and Manchester United. Only Manchester United can qualify to CL-LS directly but seems unlikely since they are something like 10 points away from CL spots. Porto won against 4 matches totally 2 against Antwerp and 2 against Shakhtar. Antwerp can qualify to CL-LS if they win domestic league but are currently 15 points away from top and Ukraine has no direct spot and Shakhtar is not even at top yet. So actually no club that have won will have direct access.
There is no place for them in the CL qualifiers because UEFA distributes the vast majority of places in the CL to the privileged.
I refer to all teams ,especialy for the last teams in groups. All teams should go to qualifications and only the best in CL.
If you read my first post carefully, you would have noticed that I said: some might argue. My point was that, people who say: it's called Champions League, therefore it should be for the champions only, do have a point. Whether I agree with that or not is a different discussion. But you did jump very quickly to the conclusion that I am a strong believer of that which I found quite amusing.
They don't. And even if this had any merit, let's play along the "name matters" game: I think only Union Berlin and Braga never won any domestic title. How did I check? By reading wikipedia pages called 'List of <country> football champions"'. Hard to argue that Real Sociedad isn't a spanish champion, when they won the league in 81-82.Ambro wrote: ↑Wed Jan 10, 2024 12:25If you read my first post carefully, you would have noticed that I said: some might argue. My point was that, people who say: it's called Champions League, therefore it should be for the champions only, do have a point. Whether I agree with that or not is a different discussion. But you did jump very quickly to the conclusion that I am a strong believer of that which I found quite amusing.
The point is that this competition should be for the current champions not from when Margaret Thatcher was in kindergarten.
Why? The "name" argument doesn't work, so now we're back to making claims "it should be like that because reasons"? Again, back to the World Cup, you don't mind having confederations sending teams who finished 2nd in their qualification group, and having a different number of teams. No, special pleading doesn't work either.