Max number of clubs per association in European football

[kouta86]

I'm surprised that such a thread did not exist already.
And that nobody really knows what is going to happen with European qualifications this season.
The one thing that seems clear is that UEFA would tolerate six teams in Champions League if Italy or Germany get the seasonal extra spot and win Europa League on top of that with a team out of top 5.
Now, the big question is about whether the old hard limit of 9 for association is lifted or not.
What happens if Fiorentina, now 10th, wins the Conference League and Atalanta wins Europa League from 6th??
Does Italy get 10 teams in European football?
Does anyone here know how it's supposed to work?

[TommyChat]

I'm surprised that such a thread did not exist already.
And that nobody really knows what is going to happen with European qualifications this season.
The one thing that seems clear is that UEFA would tolerate six teams in Champions League if Italy or Germany get the seasonal extra spot and win Europa League on top of that with a team out of top 5.
Now, the big question is about whether the old hard limit of 9 for association is lifted or not.
What happens if Fiorentina, now 10th, wins the Conference League and Atalanta wins Europa League from 6th??
Does Italy get 10 teams in European football?
Does anyone here know how it's supposed to work?

There is NO cap this season.
7 UCL (Top 4+5th(Seasonal ranking) + UCL and UEL winner outside of top 5)
3 UEL (CW, 6th or 7th based on CW, UECL winner outside of top 6/7)
1 UCoL (7th or 8th based on CW)
11 teams from the same country are technically possible if UCL, UEL and UCoL winner finish outside top 7/8 and are not CWs.

On your scenario it's still 9 from Italy, Atalanta gets the UEL-W winner spot but are not replaced by another Italian team in UEL but by Belgian CW through rebalancing, they should finish 9th for Italy to have 10 teams.

[kouta86]

I'm surprised that such a thread did not exist already.
And that nobody really knows what is going to happen with European qualifications this season.
The one thing that seems clear is that UEFA would tolerate six teams in Champions League if Italy or Germany get the seasonal extra spot and win Europa League on top of that with a team out of top 5.
Now, the big question is about whether the old hard limit of 9 for association is lifted or not.
What happens if Fiorentina, now 10th, wins the Conference League and Atalanta wins Europa League from 6th??
Does Italy get 10 teams in European football?
Does anyone here know how it's supposed to work?

There is NO cap this season.
7 UCL (Top 4+5th(Seasonal ranking) + UCL and UEL winner outside of top 5)
3 UEL (CW, 6th or 7th based on CW, UECL winner outside of top 6/7)
1 UCoL (7th or 8th based on CW)
11 teams from the same country are technically possible if UCL, UEL and UCoL winner finish outside top 7/8 and are not CWs.

On your scenario it's still 9 from Italy, Atalanta gets the UEL-W winner spot but are not replaced by another Italian team in UEL but by Belgian CW through rebalancing, they should finish 9th for Italy to have 10 teams.

Thanks for the answer.
My question is...how do you know that there is no cap?
Did UEFA ever publish anything about it?

ps. I see you're from Kastoriá? Fantastic place, great food, I was there in February 2014 with snow.

[TommyChat]

I'm surprised that such a thread did not exist already.
And that nobody really knows what is going to happen with European qualifications this season.
The one thing that seems clear is that UEFA would tolerate six teams in Champions League if Italy or Germany get the seasonal extra spot and win Europa League on top of that with a team out of top 5.
Now, the big question is about whether the old hard limit of 9 for association is lifted or not.
What happens if Fiorentina, now 10th, wins the Conference League and Atalanta wins Europa League from 6th??
Does Italy get 10 teams in European football?
Does anyone here know how it's supposed to work?

There is NO cap this season.
7 UCL (Top 4+5th(Seasonal ranking) + UCL and UEL winner outside of top 5)
3 UEL (CW, 6th or 7th based on CW, UECL winner outside of top 6/7)
1 UCoL (7th or 8th based on CW)
11 teams from the same country are technically possible if UCL, UEL and UCoL winner finish outside top 7/8 and are not CWs.

On your scenario it's still 9 from Italy, Atalanta gets the UEL-W winner spot but are not replaced by another Italian team in UEL but by Belgian CW through rebalancing, they should finish 9th for Italy to have 10 teams.

Thanks for the answer.
My question is...how do you know that there is no cap?
Did UEFA ever publish anything about it?

ps. I see you're from Kastoriá? Fantastic place, great food, I was there in February 2014 with snow.

They published the regulations for 2024-25 season and there is no mention about any cap. In the regulations for 2023-24 season and before it was explained exactly what would happen if a country with 4 spots had both UCL and UEL winner outside top 4.

[kouta86]

There is NO cap this season.
7 UCL (Top 4+5th(Seasonal ranking) + UCL and UEL winner outside of top 5)
3 UEL (CW, 6th or 7th based on CW, UECL winner outside of top 6/7)
1 UCoL (7th or 8th based on CW)
11 teams from the same country are technically possible if UCL, UEL and UCoL winner finish outside top 7/8 and are not CWs.

On your scenario it's still 9 from Italy, Atalanta gets the UEL-W winner spot but are not replaced by another Italian team in UEL but by Belgian CW through rebalancing, they should finish 9th for Italy to have 10 teams.

Thanks for the answer.
My question is...how do you know that there is no cap?
Did UEFA ever publish anything about it?

ps. I see you're from Kastoriá? Fantastic place, great food, I was there in February 2014 with snow.

They published the regulations for 2024-25 season and there is no mention about any cap. In the regulations for 2023-24 season and before it was explained exactly what would happen if a country with 4 spots had both UCL and UEL winner outside top 4.

Ok. I'll refer to the regulations for that.
It seems incredible that they just went ahead and got rid of the team limit, but that must be the case.

[Ricardo]

The reason that there is no subject because lots of people here hate that so many of the top countries can particiapte in CL, the topic would only make us angry, like this topic now does
Have fun Uefa, I'm out

[perica]

I think more doubts is about two performance places. One is already clinched by Italy, another one is very likely to bi given to Germany. And the question is what about i.e. Roma wins EL this season and finishes Seria A at 5th place. Will Italy be entitled with 6 participants next season? Or it will stay at 5 because both berths EPS and EL title holder are occupied by the same team. If i.e. Atalanta wins EL, then it is clear that both teams will participate in CL next season (Atalanta as EL TH and Roma as EPS).

[amirbachar]

The reason that there is no subject because lots of people here hate that so many of the top countries can particiapte in CL, the topic would only make us angry, like this topic now does
Have fun Uefa, I'm out

Not at the expense of Netherlands to be honest, who got many points in Conference League in a transition phase (from next year it won't be possible since no team drops to another competition after LS)

[fabiomh]

I think more doubts is about two performance places. One is already clinched by Italy, another one is very likely to bi given to Germany. And the question is what about i.e. Roma wins EL this season and finishes Seria A at 5th place. Will Italy be entitled with 6 participants next season? Or it will stay at 5 because both berths EPS and EL title holder are occupied by the same team. If i.e. Atalanta wins EL, then it is clear that both teams will participate in CL next season (Atalanta as EL TH and Roma as EPS).

In other words the question is:
What is applied first: TH place or EPS?

[Sagy]

I think more doubts is about two performance places. One is already clinched by Italy, another one is very likely to bi given to Germany. And the question is what about i.e. Roma wins EL this season and finishes Seria A at 5th place. Will Italy be entitled with 6 participants next season? Or it will stay at 5 because both berths EPS and EL title holder are occupied by the same team. If i.e. Atalanta wins EL, then it is clear that both teams will participate in CL next season (Atalanta as EL TH and Roma as EPS).

In other words the question is:
What is applied first: TH place or EPS?

I believe that UEFA supplied the answer to this by saying that TH is first, followed by rebalancing, and EPS allocation is last.

[Clockingbell]

The reason that there is no subject because lots of people here hate that so many of the top countries can particiapte in CL, the topic would only make us angry, like this topic now does
Have fun Uefa, I'm out

Not at the expense of Netherlands to be honest, who got many points in Conference League in a transition phase (from next year it won't be possible since no team drops to another competition after LS)

The conference league was benefitting for the Netherlands, but only for a bit by the dropping of PSV, adding 7 points for the coefficient. The rest was earned by the 3 GS teams. The extra places for the top 5 leagues actually were at the expense of, amongst others, the Netherlands, who had 2 or 3 teams in CL during the '00s, however fair that system was.

[babaluj1]

The reason that there is no subject because lots of people here hate that so many of the top countries can particiapte in CL, the topic would only make us angry, like this topic now does
Have fun Uefa, I'm out

The UEFA system is such that it favors the biggest leagues. The more direct places in the CL, the more money in the richest leagues. When UEFA gives so many direct places in the CL to the clubs of the Top 5 leagues, then for the Top clubs of the 6th and 7th countries (currently the Netherlands and Portugal) there are no places even in the CL qualifications. The victims are primarily AZ Alkmaar and Ajax, as well as Porto and Braga. It would be much fairer if all these clubs went to the CL qualifiers together, so whoever is better should play in the CL. Ajax and Porto are far bigger clubs than, say, Bologna and Roma, who next season have direct places in the CL as the fourth and fifth Italian clubs.
Too many privileges to the selected leagues, always leads to harm to the other leagues.

[babaluj1]

I look at that access list and the illogic is visible both in the number of clubs and in the direct places for clubs.
Top 4 countries play with 7 clubs (4 direct places in CL and 2 direct places in EL), countries from 16th to 20th place
(NOR, DEN, RUS, CRO, GRE) play with 4 clubs without direct places, same as countries from 46th-50th places (GEO, EST.ISL, ALB, WAL), although there is a much bigger difference in the quality of clubs between 16 .-20th place and 46th-50th place, than it is between the Top 4 leagues and these from 16th to 20th.
If the best countries play with 7 clubs, then countries up to 10th place should play with 6 clubs, countries up to 20th place with 5 clubs, countries up to 35th place with 4 clubs, up to 45th place with 3 clubs and the weakest countries with 2 clubs. No one should have more than 2 direct places in the CL, let's say the Top 5 countries 2 places, those up to the 10th place only the champions, and all other clubs should play the CL qualifications, let's say 3 clubs from the Top 15 countries and 2 clubs each from the 16th-25th countries, and the champions of other countries.

[OlliWender]

I've been wondering for some time if it would maybe make sense to determine the access list and number of teams not by place in the ranking, but by total coefficient points.

Maybe somthing like:
0 - 3 points (San Marino) 1 CL + 1 UECL
3 - 6 ( Gibraltar, Montenegro, Wales, Andorra) 1CL + 2 UECL
6 - 12 etc. (Belarus ... Kosovo) 1CL + 3 UECL
13 - 20 1 CL + 1 EL + 2 UECL
etc.
over 75 points: 4 CL + 2 EL + 1 UECL

I know it would lead to the overall number of international teams fluctuating every season, but for example, Portugal (56.3) is only 5 points behind the Netherlands (61.3), but will have 1 CL place less now, the same number as Belgium (48.6) and Turkey (38.6), even though quality wise they're much closer to NL.
By the same logic, there's no way that France should have the same number of teams as the Big 4 as long as they're almost 20 points behind them.

[rpo.castro]

I've been wondering for some time if it would maybe make sense to determine the access list and number of teams not by place in the ranking, but by total coefficient points.

Maybe somthing like:
0 - 3 points (San Marino) 1 CL + 1 UECL
3 - 6 ( Gibraltar, Montenegro, Wales, Andorra) 1CL + 2 UECL
6 - 12 etc. (Belarus ... Kosovo) 1CL + 3 UECL
13 - 20 1 CL + 1 EL + 2 UECL
etc.
over 75 points: 4 CL + 2 EL + 1 UECL

I know it would lead to the overall number of international teams fluctuating every season, but for example, Portugal (56.3) is only 5 points behind the Netherlands (61.3), but will have 1 CL place less now, the same number as Belgium (48.6) and Turkey (38.6), even though quality wise they're much closer to NL.
By the same logic, there's no way that France should have the same number of teams as the Big 4 as long as they're almost 20 points behind them.

The problem with current ranking is the gap sometimes is to big between two consecutive places, like 5th and 6th, and this was made clearly to help France.
So the problem isn't the system/ranking, its the way you apply it.