nogomet wrote: ↑Thu Apr 18, 2024 08:37
And in that scenario the TH rebalancing in the champions path would not apply? The best ranked champion would NOT qualify directly to CL league phase?
The EPS is allocated to the club that finishes the relevant association's domestic championship in the highest position of all those that do not qualify for the league phase of the UEFA Champions League via the domestic championship (after any vacancies have been filled in accordance with Paragraph 3.04 to Paragraph 3.06).
This is part of regulations that is referring to the EPS. As it is written I understand that it is Dortmund that should get the EPS (if they remaing 5th in Germany) but if they win CL it is unclear what will happen since EPS are awarding after the end of rebalancing and Dortmunt is already at LP as CL-W. In my view we should have TH rebalancing again in such cases but since nothing is mentioned at the regulations probably it is a backdoor for UEFA to give access to one more club from top league to CL. Although it seems insane to me that 6th club of a league can qualify to CL if CL-W finishes 5th in league but if CL-W finishes 4th in league the 6th club will take part at EL
In top 4 leagues we know that:
If CL-W finishes in top 4, the league has 4 CL participants without EPS and 5 with EPS.
If CL-W finishes 6th or lower, the league has 5 CL participants without EPS and 6 with EPS.
We also know that in the following case:
NA 14 has the champion with the highest ranking in CL qualifiers and CLTH is not used.
This NA somehow gets top 2 in EPS.
The runner up gets to league stage as well even if they use the minimum coefficient for their NA.
It makes sense since this NA should have one more league stage spot with EPS compared to without EPS and this is why EPS is used after rebalncing.
So for the debate:
If CL-W finishes 5th, the league has 5 CL participants without EPS, so shouldn't it has 6 with EPS?
We have had this discussion since before the official regulation were published.
Once the regulation were published, the key focus has been over “that do not qualify for the league phase of the UEFA Champions League via the domestic championship”.
My interpretation is that since the EPS is allocated “after any vacancies have been filled“, it means that if CL-W or EL-W finished in n+1 position the EPS will be given to the team finishing in the n+2 position (or n+3 if the CL-W and EL-W teams finished in n+1 and n+2 positions).
While possible, and UEFA has done crazier things, I don’t believe that UEFA will effectively take away the EPS if the team in that position is a CL-W or EL-W.
nogomet wrote: ↑Thu Apr 18, 2024 08:37
And in that scenario the TH rebalancing in the champions path would not apply? The best ranked champion would NOT qualify directly to CL league phase?
The EPS is allocated to the club that finishes the relevant association's domestic championship in the highest position of all those that do not qualify for the league phase of the UEFA Champions League via the domestic championship (after any vacancies have been filled in accordance with Paragraph 3.04 to Paragraph 3.06).
This is part of regulations that is referring to the EPS. As it is written I understand that it is Dortmund that should get the EPS (if they remaing 5th in Germany) but if they win CL it is unclear what will happen since EPS are awarding after the end of rebalancing and Dortmunt is already at LP as CL-W. In my view we should have TH rebalancing again in such cases but since nothing is mentioned at the regulations probably it is a backdoor for UEFA to give access to one more club from top league to CL. Although it seems insane to me that 6th club of a league can qualify to CL if CL-W finishes 5th in league but if CL-W finishes 4th in league the 6th club will take part at EL
In top 4 leagues we know that:
If CL-W finishes in top 4, the league has 4 CL participants without EPS and 5 with EPS.
If CL-W finishes 6th or lower, the league has 5 CL participants without EPS and 6 with EPS.
We also know that in the following case:
NA 14 has the champion with the highest ranking in CL qualifiers and CLTH is not used.
This NA somehow gets top 2 in EPS.
The runner up gets to league stage as well even if they use the minimum coefficient for their NA.
It makes sense since this NA should have one more league stage spot with EPS compared to without EPS and this is why EPS is used after rebalncing.
So for the debate:
If CL-W finishes 5th, the league has 5 CL participants without EPS, so shouldn't it has 6 with EPS?
This is making sense but when CL-W is a top4 ranked club the country isn't awarded a 5th CL spot. Doesn't it make sense the same rule to apply when a country has 5 CL participants due to EPS and the 5th is the CL winner?
For some reason UEFA decided to award EPS after the end of the rebalancing and this is creating some very weird situations and the fate of some clubs doesn't depend on their league standings but depends on the standings of other clubs of their league. Eg in Italy the fate of 6th ranked club will depend on the the position of Roma/Atalanta if one of them win EL.
The weird situations doesn't end at CL though. Since Roma/Atalanta finished 5th and won EL and EPS are awarded at the end of rebalancing, Italy will have one club less at EL and rebalancing of access list will be needed so CW of Belgium will be promoted to EL-LP. Club Brugge might get this spot and might also win ECL which will have as result to have rebalancing cause of ECL-W is at LP so all clubs of qualifiers take part (without leapfrogging) instead of having rebalancing cause ECL-W is at PO and and at rebalancing take part only the clubs of Q3. So it is likely a club of EL-Q1 that could have been promoted at Q2 at best case to end up to EL-LP just cause EPS are awarded after rebalancing.
@eye
If it's assumed that Club Brugge is ECL-W and they finish second in Belgium (CL qualifiers), shouldn't Ajax be directly qualified to EL as the highest ranked club in EL qualifiers as a consequence of ECL-W rebalancing?
nogomet wrote: ↑Mon Apr 22, 2024 11:46
@eye
If it's assumed that Club Brugge is ECL-W and they finish second in Belgium (CL qualifiers), shouldn't Ajax be directly qualified to EL as the highest ranked club in EL qualifiers as a consequence of ECL-W rebalancing?
That's right, it was a minor bug which is fixed. Thanks for noticing this
Speadsheet has been updated based on the latest info concerning the rebalancing. Plenty of changes have been made to the core of it so bugs or a kind missfunctionality is possible. If you notice any please inform (a screenshot would help more since spreadsheet is updating automatically)
eye wrote: ↑Tue May 07, 2024 17:49
Speadsheet has been updated based on the latest info concerning the rebalancing. Plenty of changes have been made to the core of it so bugs or a kind missfunctionality is possible. If you notice any please inform (a screenshot would help more since spreadsheet is updating automatically)
eye wrote: ↑Tue May 07, 2024 17:49
Speadsheet has been updated based on the latest info concerning the rebalancing. Plenty of changes have been made to the core of it so bugs or a kind missfunctionality is possible. If you notice any please inform (a screenshot would help more since spreadsheet is updating automatically)
Fotcalc wrote: ↑Wed May 08, 2024 13:37
Perfect. Rebalancing is on spot so far. Exactly the same as @dnina10.
I hope his info is correct cause I am tired of changing the rebalancing procedure again and again. It is also funny that in the end we will not have any "weird" rebalancing (which is very likely) and we will have similar discussions after a year
eye wrote: ↑Wed May 08, 2024 14:57
I hope his info is correct cause I am tired of changing the rebalancing procedure again and again. It is also funny that in the end we will not have any "weird" rebalancing (which is very likely) and we will have similar discussions after a year
I hope we can have all the weird ones this upcoming season. I don't want more of this uncertainty the season after.
eye wrote: ↑Wed May 08, 2024 14:57
I hope his info is correct cause I am tired of changing the rebalancing procedure again and again. It is also funny that in the end we will not have any "weird" rebalancing (which is very likely) and we will have similar discussions after a year
I hope we can have all the weird ones this upcoming season. I don't want more of this uncertainty the season after.
Question about the weird one:
What would happen if Olympiacos win the UECL and domestic title?
Would they enter UCL - QR2, risking secured UEL spot?
If Olympiacos decide to play the Champions League, would the UECL titleholder replacement spot be used?
eye wrote: ↑Wed May 08, 2024 14:57
I hope his info is correct cause I am tired of changing the rebalancing procedure again and again. It is also funny that in the end we will not have any "weird" rebalancing (which is very likely) and we will have similar discussions after a year
I hope we can have all the weird ones this upcoming season. I don't want more of this uncertainty the season after.
Question about the weird one:
What would happen if Olympiacos win the UECL and domestic title?
Would they enter UCL - QR2, risking secured UEL spot?
If Olympiacos decide to play the Champions League, would the UECL titleholder replacement spot be used?
Most likely Olympiakos will choose to play at CL.
When ECL-W qualifies to CL and choose to take part at CL then the club with highest coefficient of EL qualifiers (without leapfrogging) gets the spot. At spreadsheet is assumed ECL--W will choose to take part at CL.
eye wrote: ↑Wed May 08, 2024 14:57
I hope his info is correct cause I am tired of changing the rebalancing procedure again and again. It is also funny that in the end we will not have any "weird" rebalancing (which is very likely) and we will have similar discussions after a year
I hope we can have all the weird ones this upcoming season. I don't want more of this uncertainty the season after.
Question about the weird one:
What would happen if Olympiacos win the UECL and domestic title?
Would they enter UCL - QR2, risking secured UEL spot?
If Olympiacos decide to play the Champions League, would the UECL titleholder replacement spot be used?
That is correct, yes. We generally assume that the team in question would choose UCL, and understandably so
