English Football 2023/24

[offside]

Not sure that “nobody” is correct, I might be wrong, but I don’t remember La Liga or Bundesliga (for example) using lines. Does anyone has a pointer to an IFAB decision on the subject?

I'm not sure that this answers your question, but I think that in Serie A, for offsides, there is the guardalinee elettronico, which is the electronic assistant, which is a 3D image of the players instead of using lines. Again, I'm not sure that this is the answer you were asking for.

[Sagy]

Not sure that “nobody” is correct, I might be wrong, but I don’t remember La Liga or Bundesliga (for example) using lines. Does anyone has a pointer to an IFAB decision on the subject?

I'm not sure that this answers your question, but I think that in Serie A, for offsides, there is the guardalinee elettronico, which is the electronic assistant, which is a 3D image of the players instead of using lines. Again, I'm not sure that this is the answer you were asking for.

Thanks, for sure it’s a start.

[rpo.castro]

Offside its the more clear situation: either it is offside or not. There is no "he might be, depends on the understanding". If VAR doesn't hasn't the technology to analyze offside, whats the point?

[Sagy]

Offside its the more clear situation: either it is offside or not. There is no "he might be, depends on the understanding". If VAR doesn't hasn't the technology to analyze offside, whats the point?

I’m not arguing against this application of technology. I’m just asking where in the rules this is stated.

AFAIK, this is the current version from IFAB.

I don’t see an exception for offside from “clear and obvious error”

Relevant sections of from the IFAB document that I could find (possible that I missed something).

Principles

The use of VARs in football matches is based on a number of principles, all of which must apply in every match using VARs.

1. A video assistant referee (VAR) is a match official, with independent access to match footage, who may assist the referee only in the event of a ‘clear and obvious error’ or ‘serious missed incident’ in relation to:

a. Goal/no goal

b. Penalty/no penalty

c. Direct red card (not second yellow card/caution)

d. Mistaken identity (when the referee cautions or sends off the wrong player of the offending team)

…

3. The original decision given by the referee will not be changed unless the video review clearly shows that the decision was a ‘clear and obvious error’.

…

2. Reviewable match-changing decisions/incidents

The referee may receive assistance from the VAR only in relation to four categories of match-changing decisions/incidents. In all these situations, the VAR is only used after the referee has made a (first/original) decision (including allowing play to continue), or if a serious incident is missed/not seen by the match officials.

…

The categories of decision/incident which may be reviewed in the event of a potential ‘clear and obvious error’ or ‘serious missed incident’ are:

a. Goal/no goal

attacking team offence in the build-up to or scoring of the goal (handball, foul, offside etc.)
ball out of play prior to the goal
goal/no goal decisions
offence by goalkeeper and/or kicker at the taking of a penalty kick or encroachment by an attacker or defender who becomes directly involved in play if the penalty kick rebounds from the goalpost, crossbar or goalkeeper

…

4.Procedures

…

Review

…

For factual decisions e.g. position of an offence or player (offside), point of contact (handball/foul), location (inside or outside the penalty area), ball out of play etc. a ‘VAR-only review’ is usually appropriate but an ‘on-field review’ (OFR) can be used for a factual decision if it will help manage the players/match or ‘sell’ the decision (e.g. a crucial match-deciding decision late in the game)

Now, if someone wants to interpret “a one mm offside” as “clear and obvious” because technically said so, I’m willing to listen to the reasoning and might be convinced.

All I’m doing is asking for the reasoning and how it is tied to the current LOTG.

[rpo.castro]

"Serious missed incident". A goal was scored, that should be disallowed because refs missed the player was offside.

Lets say that there is a margin for offside considered as "not clear or obvious" whats that margin? 1cm? 5cm? 10cm? 20 cm? 1m if in with rain?

Offside its basically one of two things that can be measured. Than its black or white, even if you add a margin, its still black or white, you just offset the zero (the other thing that can be measure is ball in or ball out).

[Sagy]

"Serious missed incident". A goal was scored, that should be disallowed because refs missed the player was offside.

Lets say that there is a margin for offside considered as "not clear or obvious" whats that margin? 1cm? 5cm? 10cm? 20 cm? 1m if in with rain?

Offside its basically one of two things that can be measured. Than its black or white, even if you add a margin, its still black or white, you just offset the zero (the other thing that can be measure is ball in or ball out).

Offside is clearly grouped with other violations “attacking team offence in the build-up to or scoring of the goal (handball, foul, offside etc.)”. The regulations say nothing special about offside. I’m not arguing that it wasn’t offside or that an offside shouldn’t use technology as the final answer (ignoring the technical margin of error) to determine on/off. My question is about the rules. Where in the regulations it makes offside unique. I’m not saying it shouldn’t be, I’m asking for the source and if there is one why different leagues/tournaments are not consistent.

[rpo.castro]

"Serious missed incident". A goal was scored, that should be disallowed because refs missed the player was offside.

Lets say that there is a margin for offside considered as "not clear or obvious" whats that margin? 1cm? 5cm? 10cm? 20 cm? 1m if in with rain?

Offside its basically one of two things that can be measured. Than its black or white, even if you add a margin, its still black or white, you just offset the zero (the other thing that can be measure is ball in or ball out).

Offside is clearly grouped with other violations “attacking team offence in the build-up to or scoring of the goal (handball, foul, offside etc.)”. The regulations say nothing special about offside. I’m not arguing that it wasn’t offside or that an offside shouldn’t use technology as the final answer (ignoring the technical margin of error) to determine on/off. My question is about the rules. Where in the regulations it makes offside unique. I’m not saying it shouldn’t be, I’m asking for the source and if there is one why different leagues/tournaments are not consistent.

Yeah, I understood that Premier League has different rules. In Portugal every goal is checked for possible offside, no matter how small it is (I think 8 cm was the minimum I ve watched). But I think its silly when you implement VAR that is very disruptive and game changer, that doesn't end a lot controversy like penalties, because a lot of them depends on the analysis of the person, but the only thing that is factual isn't cleared out.

[Polak]

Just to clarify I wasn't saying the offside should have been overturned, just that it was a shame for Coventry not to go through with a winning goal when the player was like 1 or 2 mm offside. The offside rule was invented originally not for situations like this, but to prevent attacking players just waiting by the opposition goal, you know like we used to do at school. It is what it is though and 1mm offside is offside still. I suppose one could also argue that the late penalty for Coventry was a little harsh on Man Utd.

[Sagy]

ESPN has a decent analysis of VAR calls in England over the weekend.

[Lorric]

Emery contract extension to 2027:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/ar ... pyddj6z8ro

[bugylibicska]

I think Chelsea are not ready for the Intertoto cup. The butthead owner must invest another billion.

[Lorric]

Arsenal have gone right back to kicking everybody's ass in the Premier League. Don't know where this Arsenal was in the Champions League. They've done their best to put as much pressure on City as possible by winning both games before City play again. But before they play on Thursday, Liverpool also have the opportunity for win number two in the Merseyside Derby tomorrow...

[bugylibicska]

Is Moyes a West Ham hero?

"Do West Ham fans really believe they deserve better?"

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/sports/soccer ... 7b68&ei=28

[SimonB]

Arsenal have gone right back to kicking everybody's ass in the Premier League. Don't know where this Arsenal was in the Champions League. They've done their best to put as much pressure on City as possible by winning both games before City play again. But before they play on Thursday, Liverpool also have the opportunity for win number two in the Merseyside Derby tomorrow...

But Chelsea aren't Bayern, not by a long way, our 3rd and 4th teams won 2/12 in the Cl this season, one of them at the opposite end of the table to Bayern, and Chelsea aren't as good as those two currently.

[rpo.castro]

Is Moyes a West Ham hero?

"Do West Ham fans really believe they deserve better?"

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/sports/soccer ... 7b68&ei=28

"Football is about right now". Recent results aren't good, but no one outside West Ham expects them to outperform last seasons. Do they?