New Champions League at 2024 and on

[amenina]

Also, when it comes to the UECL title spot, as UEL qualifiers cannot leapfrog someone that ended ahead of them, the question is how they rank teams. If CW is higher than N2, then there can be some teams to choose from, otherwise it will nation 8 and 9, plus maybe nations where the champions or runner up got the UCL or UEL title spots.

From the access list: https://kassiesa.net/uefa/AccessList2024.html

The only associations with more than one team in EL qualifying are associations 8-12, where CW enter PO and N3 enter Q2. So N3 cannot be promoted to the group stage to leapfrog the CW of their own association.

[DumoKing]

If the leapfrog is only within EL qualifying, but I figured a EL team can’t be moved to group stage if their champion start in Q2 for instance.

[amenina]

If the leapfrog is only within EL qualifying, but I figured a EL team can’t be moved to group stage if their champion start in Q2 for instance.

I think you are asking about associations 10-15? In those cases, their CW start from EL PO or Q3, while their N2 start from CL Q2. Can their CW be promoted to EL group stage to fill the vacant UECL title holder spot?

Obviously nobody can be 100% sure, but from my understanding, UEFA considers CL and EL separately so this is not considered leapfrogging, so it should be ok to promote these CW.

[Fotcalc]

In the 24/25 season, an unused UCL titleholder spot will go to the highest ranked domestic champion on the 5-year ranking. Top 10 NAs are excluded.

This shows the current 5-year ranking in the relevant period, showing only clubs from NAs outside top 10:

[Wachtwoord]

Which TH spot will be filled first if both CL-TH and EL-TH are not used? Let's assume that we have:

Shakhtar 60.000 --> champions path
Sporting Lisbon 55.000 --> league path
Dinamo Zagreb 50.000 --> champions path

If CL-TH spot is filled first and EL-TH second, then Shakhtar and Sporting take the two spots in CL-GS.
But if EL-TH is filled first and CL-TH second, then Shakhtar and Dinamo Zagreb go to CL-GS.

Could you link me to these slides? Thanks!

[Wachtwoord]

As a portuguese, the idea used for the vacant places will surely benefit teams from my country (specially Benfica and Porto), even more now that the Netherlands is in the 6th place and so Ajax will qualify directly in the first two places of the league (PSG finishing 4th in French league is a somewhat impossible event, in these days). The downside is no points recieved for qualifying games in those situations, in the fight for the 5th and 6th places of the ranking. But still is beneficial for us, and specially for these two teams, avoiding surprises in the qualifying and assuring one of the most important objectives of the season, both sporting and financially.

How often does the EL winner actually qualify for CL in the league though? That will surely get worse when the route of dropping from the CL and joining the EL after the winter break gets removed too.

[amirbachar]

In the 24/25 season, an unused UCL titleholder spot will go to the highest ranked domestic champion on the 5-year ranking. Top 10 NAs are excluded.

This shows the current 5-year ranking in the relevant period, showing only clubs from NAs outside top 10:

Very nice, thank you

[amirbachar]

As a portuguese, the idea used for the vacant places will surely benefit teams from my country (specially Benfica and Porto), even more now that the Netherlands is in the 6th place and so Ajax will qualify directly in the first two places of the league (PSG finishing 4th in French league is a somewhat impossible event, in these days). The downside is no points recieved for qualifying games in those situations, in the fight for the 5th and 6th places of the ranking. But still is beneficial for us, and specially for these two teams, avoiding surprises in the qualifying and assuring one of the most important objectives of the season, both sporting and financially.

How often does the EL winner actually qualify for CL in the league though? That will surely get worse when the route of dropping from the CL and joining the EL after the winter break gets removed too.

The EL spot will be less used with the new system in my opinion, since less clubs from big leagues will join the EL (and they very often need to use it)

[amenina]

Which TH spot will be filled first if both CL-TH and EL-TH are not used? Let's assume that we have:

Shakhtar 60.000 --> champions path
Sporting Lisbon 55.000 --> league path
Dinamo Zagreb 50.000 --> champions path

If CL-TH spot is filled first and EL-TH second, then Shakhtar and Sporting take the two spots in CL-GS.
But if EL-TH is filled first and CL-TH second, then Shakhtar and Dinamo Zagreb go to CL-GS.

Could you link me to these slides? Thanks!

https://rankinguefa.pl/wp-content/uploa ... o-send.pdf

[amenina]

As a portuguese, the idea used for the vacant places will surely benefit teams from my country (specially Benfica and Porto), even more now that the Netherlands is in the 6th place and so Ajax will qualify directly in the first two places of the league (PSG finishing 4th in French league is a somewhat impossible event, in these days). The downside is no points recieved for qualifying games in those situations, in the fight for the 5th and 6th places of the ranking. But still is beneficial for us, and specially for these two teams, avoiding surprises in the qualifying and assuring one of the most important objectives of the season, both sporting and financially.

How often does the EL winner actually qualify for CL in the league though? That will surely get worse when the route of dropping from the CL and joining the EL after the winter break gets removed too.

Since the provision that the EL winner qualify for CL group stage directly have been introduced in the 2018-19 season, in the first three seasons, the EL winner already qualified through the league (2018-19: Atletico Madrid, 2019-20: Chelsea, 2020-21: Sevilla), but not in the most recent two seasons (2021-22: Villarreal, 2022-23: Frankfurt).

For next season, looking at the projected EL lineup in the knockout stage (Barcelona, Sevilla, Ajax, Salzburg, Man United, Arsenal, etc.), it looks more likely than not the EL winners will qualify for the group stage by the league.

For the 2024-25 season, where the club coefficient replacement rule is first introduced, the winner of the 2023-24 EL, which is still under the old system with the dropdown rule, qualify for the group stage, so it is still quite likely this place is eventually vacated.

But after that, without the dropdown rule, it seems more likely than not the EL place will have to be used and not vacated.

[Ricardo]

And we have seen this year how good the EL winner fits in CL.
Made it (narrowly) to CL KO, although the other finalist is down and out.
It’s a nice functionality, but not as they really belong to the best clubs of Europe.
If that was so they would have qualified directly in their own league already.
Starting from 25, the level will be even a bit lower probably.
It really is a reward for winning the title, not because they are that good.

[As_Contas_do_Título]

As a portuguese, the idea used for the vacant places will surely benefit teams from my country (specially Benfica and Porto), even more now that the Netherlands is in the 6th place and so Ajax will qualify directly in the first two places of the league (PSG finishing 4th in French league is a somewhat impossible event, in these days). The downside is no points recieved for qualifying games in those situations, in the fight for the 5th and 6th places of the ranking. But still is beneficial for us, and specially for these two teams, avoiding surprises in the qualifying and assuring one of the most important objectives of the season, both sporting and financially.

How often does the EL winner actually qualify for CL in the league though? That will surely get worse when the route of dropping from the CL and joining the EL after the winter break gets removed too.

In the present season and in the last one, the ELTH wasn't already qualified domestically, but in the previous three seasons they did and the french teams benefited from that. But, yes, without the teams coming from the CLGS, that possibly will happen less times.

If the leapfrog is only within EL qualifying, but I figured a EL team can’t be moved to group stage if their champion start in Q2 for instance.

I think that will not matter, as N2 from NAs 10-12 begin in CLQ2 and, when they lose, they are forced to play in ELQ3, while the CW (or the team that finished behind them in the league if the CW is one of the Top2 of the league) begin only in ELPO (and some years ago they even had a ELGS direct spot).

[Wachtwoord]

Which TH spot will be filled first if both CL-TH and EL-TH are not used? Let's assume that we have:

Shakhtar 60.000 --> champions path
Sporting Lisbon 55.000 --> league path
Dinamo Zagreb 50.000 --> champions path

If CL-TH spot is filled first and EL-TH second, then Shakhtar and Sporting take the two spots in CL-GS.
But if EL-TH is filled first and CL-TH second, then Shakhtar and Dinamo Zagreb go to CL-GS.

Could you link me to these slides? Thanks!

https://rankinguefa.pl/wp-content/uploa ... o-send.pdf

Thank you!

All the others thanks for the answers to my questions too. I was indeed making the point that I doubt EL TH spot will be empty much anymore in the new system.

[Overgame]

The new rule when the CLTH and ELTH are not used can lead to a crazy situation. A very unlikely situation, but still possible.

Imagine country 11 (not the actual one)
Team A has a coefficient of 50.000
Team B has a coefficient of 70.000

The highest seed in CL-ch has a coefficient of 55.000
The highest seed in CL-nc has a coefficient of 45.000

Both TH spots are not used:
If team A is champion, team A doesn't get the TH spot
If team B is champion and team A is runner-up, both get the TH spots.

[amenina]

The new rule when the CLTH and ELTH are not used can lead to a crazy situation. A very unlikely situation, but still possible.

Imagine country 11 (not the actual one)
Team A has a coefficient of 50.000
Team B has a coefficient of 70.000

The highest seed in CL-ch has a coefficient of 55.000
The highest seed in CL-nc has a coefficient of 45.000

Both TH spots are not used:
If team A is champion, team A doesn't get the TH spot
If team B is champion and team A is runner-up, both get the TH spots.

Not true, because the EL-TH spot is open to all teams in qualifying and can also go to a team in the champions path (not just limited to teams in the league path).

There is also the “no leapfrogging rule” which prevents the runners-up getting a spot ahead of the champions.

So let’s say we have:
Team A has a coefficient of 50.000
Team B has a coefficient of 70.000
Team C: The highest seed in CL-ch has a coefficient of 55.000
Team D: The highest seed in CL-nc has a coefficient of 45.000

If team A are champions and team B are runners-up:
Team C gets the CL-TH spot. Team B cannot get the EL-TH spot ahead of team A, so team A gets the EL-TH spot.

If team B are champions and team A are runners-up:
Team B gets the CL-TH spot. Team C gets the EL-TH spot.